Blichmann BrewEasy

[Moose_MI]

Gas system, 5 gallon.

To start, I put the water in the kettle, and put the lid on, and fire off the burner. This time of year at least, by the time I finish measuring out the grain and hops, It's still 20F under my strike temperature. Once it gets about 10F from strike temp, I take the lid off, add the collar and mash tun, and begin recirculating without the restrictor in place. This is where I run at +3F until I'm close to my strike temp.

I haven't bothered with a step mash yet.

For mash out, I have been running at +5F, and with a full pot, it takes about half an hour to hit the desired temp.

This is helpful..thank you. I don't have plans for step mash but I'm curious about the mashout. Is there a reason why you should not up the burner output instead of upping the pid? If it takes 30 min to mashout it would seem your not experiencing the 1.5f/min that I saw suggessted for determining the amount of burner output.

 

[Gustatorian]

Could the heat discrepancy be fixed/minimized by cutting down the silicone hoses?

I have a 15G MT/20G BK with an 220V electric set-up, and I have about 1.5-2 ºF temp difference between what my ToP thermoprobe is showing and what my MT indwelling thermometer is showing.

How many feet of silicone tubing does your beer go through when traveling from the BK to the Mash?

 

[Moose_MI]

Could the heat discrepancy be fixed/minimized by cutting down the silicone hoses?

I have a 15G MT/20G BK with an 220V electric set-up, and I have about 1.5-2 ºF temp difference between what my ToP thermoprobe is showing and what my MT indwelling thermometer is showing.

How many feet of silicone tubing does your beer go through when traveling from the BK to the Mash?

I'm not trying to start an argument but I'm not understanding that the temp difference needs to be "fixed". Am I missing something? The pid sensor is not advertised to represent the mash temp....that's what the brewmometer in MLT does. My perspective is that the pid temp is interesting as it certainly is relevant to the MLT temp but I don't think it needs to match the MLT temp. I also think the pid temp is relevant to know that you're not over heating the BK and denaturing enzymes. I think this is more important than it matching the MLT. I'd really like to know if I'm missing something...

 

[Gustatorian]

I'm not trying to start an argument but I'm not understanding that the temp difference needs to be "fixed". Am I missing something? The pid sensor is not advertised to represent the mash temp....that's what the brewmometer in MLT does. My perspective is that the pid temp is interesting as it certainly is relevant to the MLT temp but I don't think it needs to match the MLT temp. I also think the pid temp is relevant to know that you're not over heating the BK and denaturing enzymes. I think this is more important than it matching the MLT. I'd really like to know if I'm missing something...

I don't think anyone is arguing for it to be "fixed" or not – but I think if the wort passing the PID is 2-3ºF higher than the mash tun brewmometer temp, different enzymes are more/less activated than others. True, you're probably not denaturing enzymes, but certain amylase activity changes with temps. The enzymes from the grains become part of the wort, pass through to the BK, and are heated warmer than desired. If I have to set my desired temp at 154ºF for a 152ºF desired mash temp, and my brewmometer reads 152ºF but by PID reads 154ºF, the wort is exposed to 154ºF temperatures at some point, possibly higher when in the BK (some heat is lost from wort leaving BK to the PID reading).

That being said, I'm interested in calibrating my system to having the PID as close to the MT brewmometer temp as I can. If anyone has any recs as to do this, I'm all ears.

 

[Moose_MI]

I don't think anyone is arguing for it to be "fixed" or not – but I think if the wort passing the PID is 2-3ºF higher than the mash tun brewmometer temp, different enzymes are more/less activated than others. True, you're probably not denaturing enzymes, but certain amylase activity changes with temps. The enzymes from the grains become part of the wort, pass through to the BK, and are heated warmer than desired. If I have to set my desired temp at 154ºF for a 152ºF desired mash temp, and my brewmometer reads 152ºF but by PID reads 154ºF, the wort is exposed to 154ºF temperatures at some point, possibly higher when in the BK (some heat is lost from wort leaving BK to the PID reading).

That being said, I'm interested in calibrating my system to having the PID as close to the MT brewmometer temp as I can. If anyone has any recs as to do this, I'm all ears.

Ok...I follow all of that..its exactly the reality of this system that I'm obsessing about. . I'm just not sure adjusting the pid calibration does anything except address the asthetics of pid reading same as MLT.
This is a great system and folks make a lot great beer with it so I'm not sure the discrepancy is terribly important. If I really wanted to address this I think insulating the tubing and MLT combined with maximizing flow would have more value than offsets on the pid. But what do I know? ... I haven't even used mine yet :fro:

 

[Moose_MI]

Could the heat discrepancy be fixed/minimized by cutting down the silicone hoses?

I have a 15G MT/20G BK with an 220V electric set-up, and I have about 1.5-2 ºF temp difference between what my ToP thermoprobe is showing and what my MT indwelling thermometer is showing.

How many feet of silicone tubing does your beer go through when traveling from the BK to the Mash?

I have about 8' ... (2) 30g kettles on top of burner on top of cart is about 6' high so I don't thInk I could shorten it much unless I elevated my pump but then it would create a priming issue from BK.
I think you're on the same point I am though...maybe insulate the tubing and/or MLT is a better option than shortening the tubing for me. Just not sure any of this is really necessary....yet

 

[Massflyer]

I don't think anyone is arguing for it to be "fixed" or not – but I think if the wort passing the PID is 2-3ºF higher than the mash tun brewmometer temp, different enzymes are more/less activated than others. True, you're probably not denaturing enzymes, but certain amylase activity changes with temps. The enzymes from the grains become part of the wort, pass through to the BK, and are heated warmer than desired. If I have to set my desired temp at 154ºF for a 152ºF desired mash temp, and my brewmometer reads 152ºF but by PID reads 154ºF, the wort is exposed to 154ºF temperatures at some point, possibly higher when in the BK (some heat is lost from wort leaving BK to the PID reading).

That being said, I'm interested in calibrating my system to having the PID as close to the MT brewmometer temp as I can. If anyone has any recs as to do this, I'm all ears.

1) Turn on TOP... wait for temp values to display
2) Press and release the enter button Enter button (arrowhead with 90 degree line) you should see AT for auto-tune. You have now entered the Regulation menu of the PID.
3) Press the next button (arrowhead with radius ) 9 times or until you see the value tPoF ( temperature offset.
4) Press the up or down arrow key to program the desired offset - mine is set to -3... offset value flickers
5) Press the Enter button - value stops flashing and is stored
6) I cycle the power at this and your good to go...

hope this helps

p.s. I also created a 1:42 video but cant seem to upload it... I've reached out to the administrator so stay tuned

 

[Gustatorian]

I have about 8' ... (2) 30g kettles on top of burner on top of cart is about 6' high so I don't thInk I could shorten it much unless I elevated my pump but then it would create a priming issue from BK.
I think you're on the same point I am though...maybe insulate the tubing and/or MLT is a better option than shortening the tubing for me. Just not sure any of this is really necessary....yet

8' total from BK outlet to MT Autosparge? I think I have about 11-12' total including the hardware it has to run through (sight glass and valves). I just basically hooked up what came to me from Blichmann. Maybe I should cut my tubing down a bit...

 

[Moose_MI]

8' total from BK outlet to MT Autosparge? I think I have about 11-12' total including the hardware it has to run through (sight glass and valves). I just basically hooked up what came to me from Blichmann. Maybe I should cut my tubing down a bit...

No....7' of hose from pid sensor to auto sparge input (I just measured). From BK to pump is 3.5' of hose

 

[strangr419]

What numbers are you all hitting efficiency-wise?

 

[schiersteinbrewing]

I am wondering the 65-72% efficiencies people are claiming is that conversion or brew house?

 

[Moose_MI]

I used my 20gal gas system for the first time this weekend. I got 70% brewhouse efficiency. It was a 10gal batch of wee heavy with 43lbs of grain.

 

[jmitchell3]

My conversion efficiencies are usually 76-82%.

 

[Gustatorian]

My conversion efficiencies are usually 76-82%.

Are you milling your own grain? If so, what do you have the crush set at? I've taken every precautionary measure I can take to assure the best mash efficiency (besides crushing my own grain), and I'm just north of 62-63%

 

[jmitchell3]

Are you milling your own grain? If so, what do you have the crush set at? I've taken every precautionary measure I can take to assure the best mash efficiency (besides crushing my own grain), and I'm just north of 62-63%

have you seen danam404's video on the greatfermentation.com website? its a great primer on how to dial in efficiency. primarily water chemistry and mash ph. what do you use for ph measurements? I generally just have my lhbs crush my grains. I'd suggest double crushing if going through lhbs, but i find my store does just fine on single crush.

merry christmas!

 

[Gustatorian]

have you seen danam404's video on the greatfermentation.com website? its a great primer on how to dial in efficiency. primarily water chemistry and mash ph. what do you use for ph measurements? I generally just have my lhbs crush my grains. I'd suggest double crushing if going through lhbs, but i find my store does just fine on single crush.

merry christmas!

seen it too many times. Water dialed in from RO water with an appropriate amount of Calcium for enzyme efficiency, always with a pH bw 5.2-5.6 checked on a Milwaukee M102. I'm chalking it up to a poor crush from my LHBS or problems with doughing-in/stirring the mash (although I doubt the latter, being that my mash almost always get stuck, based on the MT sight glass dropping dry and the stream from the MT drain tube slows considerably towards the end of the mash). I'll likely start cold-sparging next year.

 

[Gustatorian]

So, I'm trying to improve my mash efficiency (currently in the mid 60's) and I'm considering cold-sparging.

Here's my plan: I'll calculate the total grain and water for a recipe in Beersmith. I'll then add and treat all of the water in my BK. Next, I'll calculate how much water is needed to cover the boilcoil (5G) and to keep the water to grain ratio at 1.25 quarts per pound in the MT. I'll then remove the residual amount of water and use that to cold-sparge (I'm thinking it's close to 2 gallons extra).

Two Questions:

Does this sound like it would work or is there a flaw in my plan?

How would you go about cold-sparging with the extra water? I've never sparged before and I assume just pouring the water over the top would not be the best method.

 

[jmitchell3]

seen it too many times. Water dialed in from RO water with an appropriate amount of Calcium for enzyme efficiency, always with a pH bw 5.2-5.6 checked on a Milwaukee M102. I'm chalking it up to a poor crush from my LHBS or problems with doughing-in/stirring the mash (although I doubt the latter, being that my mash almost always get stuck, based on the MT sight glass dropping dry and the stream from the MT drain tube slows considerably towards the end of the mash). I'll likely start cold-sparging next year.

what size orifice are you using for the mash?

 

[Gustatorian]

what size orifice are you using for the mash?

1.75

 

[jmitchell3]

1.75

I use the .5 or .75 for the 5 gallon system. Depending on your system size I might try reducing the orifice size to 1.5 or 1.25 and see if that solves your stuck mash problem.

 

[Gustatorian]

I use the .5 or .75 for the 5 gallon system. Depending on your system size I might try reducing the orifice size to 1.5 or 1.25 and see if that solves your stuck mash problem.

I'm more interested in getting better efficiency than how to prevent a stuck mash. Although I've been close, I've never had a stuck mash with the 1.75 orifice.

 

[Moose_MI]

Brewed my 3rd batch today. I have the 20 gal system but do 10 gal batches. Brewhouse eff was 60%. It was about 35f in my garage and I had 10f diff between pid sensor and mash which bugs me. Compared both readings with 2nd thermometer and they pretty much matched.
I'm thinking about insulating the mash tun. Anybody do this?

 

[Jim_B]

Brewed my 1st batch on my new BrewEasy 10 gallon today. All in all it went well with the exception of a couple of learning curve issues. Had a stuck sparge that a fixed by reversing the flow through the grain bed for a minute or so, that did the trick. Had the mash temperature issues that everyone reports so knowing that helped a bit. Managed by over-shooting temp on the kettle water by 20 degrees then dialing it back as the mash came up to temp.

I don't like the return water flow. Thinking about putting SS Brewtech's manifold in it's place. Not crazy about the temperature difference like everyone else. I think down the road I will replace the Mash Kettle with one of SS's Insulated Mash tuns.

Wish it had a timer! ( Maybe it does and I don't know it?)

 

[MrEggSandwich]

I just brewed batch #6 and hit 59% brew house (I'm new to all grain)....Haven't dialed in water yet, I get stuck mashes as well using 1.25.

Making great beer, efficiency just sucks.

 

[Gustatorian]

Brewed my 1st batch on my new BrewEasy 10 gallon today. All in all it went well with the exception of a couple of learning curve issues. Had a stuck sparge that a fixed by reversing the flow through the grain bed for a minute or so, that did the trick. Had the mash temperature issues that everyone reports so knowing that helped a bit. Managed by over-shooting temp on the kettle water by 20 degrees then dialing it back as the mash came up to temp.

I don't like the return water flow. Thinking about putting SS Brewtech's manifold in it's place. Not crazy about the temperature difference like everyone else. I think down the road I will replace the Mash Kettle with one of SS's Insulated Mash tuns.

Wish it had a timer! ( Maybe it does and I don't know it?)

I was thinking about getting the manifold too! Let me know if you pull the trigger, I'd love to hear about it! Do you think you could hook it straight up to the auto-sparge without any issues? Seems like the float may get in the way...

 

[Moose_MI]

Brewed my 1st batch on my new BrewEasy 10 gallon today. All in all it went well with the exception of a couple of learning curve issues. Had a stuck sparge that a fixed by reversing the flow through the grain bed for a minute or so, that did the trick. Had the mash temperature issues that everyone reports so knowing that helped a bit. Managed by over-shooting temp on the kettle water by 20 degrees then dialing it back as the mash came up to temp.

I don't like the return water flow. Thinking about putting SS Brewtech's manifold in it's place. Not crazy about the temperature difference like everyone else. I think down the road I will replace the Mash Kettle with one of SS's Insulated Mash tuns.

Wish it had a timer! ( Maybe it does and I don't know it?)

I've done 3 10gal batches on my 20gal gas system now and my experiences line up with yours.
If you get the cable to connect the pid to your computer you can program several steps at different times. There is a you tube video on it.
I just wrapped my Mash tun in reflectix and got some pipe insulation for the hoses. Have not tried it yet but will let you know.

 

[Moose_MI]

Brewed my 3rd batch today. I have the 20 gal system but do 10 gal batches. Brewhouse eff was 60%. It was about 35f in my garage and I had 10f diff between pid sensor and mash which bugs me. Compared both readings with 2nd thermometer and they pretty much matched.
I'm thinking about insulating the mash tun. Anybody do this?

4th batch yesterday and 1st since insulating the MLT. 25lbs of grain and had strike water at 170. After mash in was at 149 which is the closest I've got yet. I thInk insulating MLT was worth it and the fact it was in the 40s outside (not 20s) also helped. I started with the 1gal orifice but changed to the 1.5 about half way through mash. Considering this was 50% wheat I was a little surprised the 1.5g didn't get stuck.
I also noticed that I could ramp better with insulation, warmer outside temp, and 1.5 orifice. I was able to raise about 1 degree per min from 150 - 165 with pid at 175. Still see about 8 degree diff between pid and MLT thermometer which makes it hard for me to know what I'm really mashing at.

Got about 63% brewhouse eff. 10g of Belgian blonde bubbling away happily this AM

 

[Jim_B]

Good too know.

I'm going to run a batch later in the week and see how it goes. Good news is here in San Diego I don't have to battle the elements. I have some thermal insulation in the garage, will give it a try.

On another note - Noted a sticky Brewmometer during my last brew to Blichmann and received a new unit in the mail a couple of days later. Great customer service.

Jim

4th batch yesterday and 1st since insulating the MLT. 25lbs of grain and had strike water at 170. After mash in was at 149 which is the closest I've got yet. I thInk insulating MLT was worth it and the fact it was in the 40s outside (not 20s) also helped. I started with the 1gal orifice but changed to the 1.5 about half way through mash. Considering this was 50% wheat I was a little surprised the 1.5g didn't get stuck.
I also noticed that I could ramp better with insulation, warmer outside temp, and 1.5 orifice. I was able to raise about 1 degree per min from 150 - 165 with pid at 175. Still see about 8 degree diff between pid and MLT thermometer which makes it hard for me to know what I'm really mashing at.

Got about 63% brewhouse eff. 10g of Belgian blonde bubbling away happily this AM

 

[Moose_MI]

I'm only 4 batches in but I keep coming back to 2 basic issues I'm having.....
1) figuring out strike temp so that I hit my target mash temp. On my 20gal system it looks like my strike needs to be ~20-25 degrees above desired mash temp. I'm in Michigan and brew in my garage so I have some variables but I will get this figured out. No worries.
2). This is the one that bugs me...in the 4 batches I've done in my garage in Michigan ..in winter.... I've needed to have my pid ~10 degrees higher than my desired mash temp in order to keep my MLT reading at my intended mash temp. This is a real problem...how do you determine what you "mash" at when the liquor (full of the enzymes that determine the profile of your wort) spend an hour passing through a system with 10 degrees of temp stratification ?!?!?

I am prepared to dismiss any concerns of efficiency....I'll add 5lbs of 2row to every batch and never think twice. I can't help but wonder if a lot of the "efficiency" issues are people who cranked up the pid to 170+ in an attempt to get their MLT temp where they wanted only to denature those marvelous enzymes that are responsible for the efficiency that we all seek.

Please...someone tell me that I'm overthinking this.....

 

[jmitchell3]

1) I don't worry about hitting target temp. I dough in ~ 140F on all my batches and heat to temp. Then start my mash timer when I hit my mash temp. Then mashout at 170 for 10-15 minutes.

2) Have you calibrated your brewmometers (kettle and mash tun)? I have the 5 gallon system and usually set my PID to 2.1-2.2F higher than my desired mash temp. That yields a mashtun brewmometer reading right at my desired mash temp. With such a small volume I'd expect my temp delta between mash and PID to be much higher than your larger system given its much higher thermal mass. There is likely something else going on if you have a 10F temp delta.

What has been your most recent mash efficiency? Im usually in the low 70s on big batches and mid-high 70s on normal gravity batches (1.050 or thereabouts).

Jeremy

I'm only 4 batches in but I keep coming back to 2 basic issues I'm having.....
1) figuring out strike temp so that I hit my target mash temp. On my 20gal system it looks like my strike needs to be ~20-25 degrees above desired mash temp. I'm in Michigan and brew in my garage so I have some variables but I will get this figured out. No worries.
2). This is the one that bugs me...in the 4 batches I've done in my garage in Michigan ..in winter.... I've needed to have my pid ~10 degrees higher than my desired mash temp in order to keep my MLT reading at my intended mash temp. This is a real problem...how do you determine what you "mash" at when the liquor (full of the enzymes that determine the profile of your wort) spend an hour passing through a system with 10 degrees of temp stratification ?!?!?

I am prepared to dismiss any concerns of efficiency....I'll add 5lbs of 2row to every batch and never think twice. I can't help but wonder if a lot of the "efficiency" issues are people who cranked up the pid to 170+ in an attempt to get their MLT temp where they wanted only to denature those marvelous enzymes that are responsible for the efficiency that we all seek.

Please...someone tell me that I'm overthinking this.....

 

[Moose_MI]

1) I don't worry about hitting target temp. I dough in ~ 140F on all my batches and heat to temp. Then start my mash timer when I hit my mash temp. Then mashout at 170 for 10-15 minutes.

2) Have you calibrated your brewmometers (kettle and mash tun)? I have the 5 gallon system and usually set my PID to 2.1-2.2F higher than my desired mash temp. That yields a mashtun brewmometer reading right at my desired mash temp. With such a small volume I'd expect my temp delta between mash and PID to be much higher than your larger system given its much higher thermal mass. There is likely something else going on if you have a 10F temp delta.

What has been your most recent mash efficiency? Im usually in the low 70s on big batches and mid-high 70s on normal gravity batches (1.050 or thereabouts).

Jeremy

1). My OCD worries about what those beta amylose are doing until I reach my desired mash temp. I'm in therapy and taking meds

2) I have a 20g gas system but do 10g batches so my thermal mass is not what it would be if I were doing 20g batches. I have not calibrated my brewmometer but have compared them with pid reading as well as other pen thermometers and they match. I accept this is not definitive proof but at least I'm honest. . I agree somethIng is odd about 8F difference but I have not figured it out yet.

 

[R_Horn]

The temperature differential is normal loss in the hose between the Thermocouple/RTD. Flow rate will also factor in. Using the 20 gallon system with 30 gallons pots my differential is 7-8 degrees using the mini tower with the RTD down at the pump and less than 2 degrees with the tall tower with the RTD at the top of the tower. My typical flow rate is 1.5 to 2 GPH.

 

[Moose_MI]

The temperature differential is normal loss in the hose between the Thermocouple/RTD. Flow rate will also factor in. Using the 20 gallon system with 30 gallons pots my differential is 7-8 degrees using the mini tower with the RTD down at the pump and less than 2 degrees with the tall tower with the RTD at the top of the tower. My typical flow rate is 1.5 to 2 GPH.

Awesome....I think you're the first 20g owner I've come across. Do you do 10g batches with any frequency? 10g are all I do (for now). For last brew I had wrapped my MLT in reflectix and I really think it helped. I also bought pipe insulation for hoses but didn't get that put on for last brew.
I think I'm going back to the 1.5 orifice...I got stuck on my 2nd batch using it and have been a little gun shy but I think I'm getting the hang of this thing and using the largest orifice possible is a good thing for this system.

Baby steps......

 

[Jim_B]

Had my 3rd batch on my 10 gal system last week. Brewed up a batch of Kal's Electric Pale Ale. This brew day was the best yet. I hit of all of my numbers with my OK being slightly better than projected through BeerSmith. I think I have it dialed in now.

Dough In at 140, let it sit for 10 mins. Give it a stir then proceed to Mash Temp #1. I set my TOP for 20 degrees over the required temp until I see the Mash Tun get with 5 degrees of my target. When that happens I dial back the water temp to 5 degrees over target. With that approach I was able to keep a consistent temp for the mash. Used the 1.25 orifice with no problems.

Dropped the yeast cake today after 4 days in primary and started secondary with a dry hop add of Citra. The beer is looking really good and the sample I took for the gravity check tasted great.

 

[Massflyer]

Quick question... for those of us that have the linear flow valves, has anyone simply measured flow rate at various valve positions? Possibly index valve when fully closed with a sharpie or paint pen at 12 o'clock, and then open 1, 1.5, 2 rotations etc and time flow rate... Once flow rates are known and repeatable, you can discard the pesky orifices and change flow rates on the fly. I haven't done this myself, just putting it out there as a possible suggestion.

Thoughts?

 

[Jim_B]

Quick question... for those of us that have the linear flow valves, has anyone simply measured flow rate at various valve positions? Possibly index valve when fully closed with a sharpie or paint pen at 12 o'clock, and then open 1, 1.5, 2 rotations etc and time flow rate... Once flow rates are known and repeatable, you can discard the pesky orifices and change flow rates on the fly. I haven't done this myself, just putting it out there as a possible suggestion.

Thoughts?

Not a bad idea. I fine tune the flow with the valve using the orifice. I have mine set up in the garage after running some pwb through it. I can throw some water in and take some readings.

Jim

 

[jmitchell3]

Just pulled the trigger to upgrade from the 5 gal 240v breweasy to the 10 gal setup.

Anyone have profiles (volumes mostly) for 5 and 10 gallon batches on this system?

 

[jmitchell3]

If anyone has interest in my 5 gallon profiles, here they are!

5 gallon 60 min boil:

Preboil volume: 7.0 gal
Post boil volume: 6.0 gal
Transferred: 5.5 gal
Kegged: 5.0 gal

5 gal 90 min boil:

Preboil 7.5 gal
Postboil 6.0 gal
transferred: 5.5 gal
Kegged: 5 gal

Power on the 240v element set at 72-76 for the boil.

For IPA or beers with a lot of hops:

Preboil 7.5
Postboil 6.5
Transferred 5.75
Kegged 5.0

This usually allows enough extra wort to account for both kettle trub loss and additional loss in the fermenter to hop material.

 

[Rmccall95]

Any plans for your 5 Gallon setup? I'm definitely interesting in purchasing it!

 

[jmitchell3]

Any plans for your 5 Gallon setup? I'm definitely interesting in purchasing it!

Pm'd.