Black Saison

[kjjohns5]

A buddy and myself were sitting down the other day and decided that in the spirit of our adoration for craft beer, we wanted to make a recipe that at this point, we've never heard of before. We started with Saison because, being in FL, it's an easy ferment. From there we decided to throw in all of our favorite flavorings that we've never seen in a Saison before, they were Vanilla, Coconut and Macadamia Nuts.

Everything was going smoothly until my friend had the greatest idea ever: "what if we made it black....?"

A huge smile crossed my face and then we began making our recipe:

9.0 lbs Pils (2 Row) German (67%)
1.5 lbs Munich 20L (12%)
1.0 lbs Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (8%)
11 oz Carafa III (5%)
0.5 lbs CaraPils (4%)
5 oz White Wheat Malt (2%)

0.5 oz Citra (12.0%) @ FWH
0.5 oz EKG (7.2%) @ 5 min

6 oz Macadamia Nuts @ Flameout
4 oz Toasted Coconut Flakes @ Flameout
1 Vanilla Bean @ Flameout

The CaraPils and Wheat Malt are in to assist with head retention and body, because we perceive oils being extracted from the nuts.


After coming up with the recipe today, of course I googled black saison and there are a few out there that I've never heard of. Anyone here ever have one? How was it?

 

[bnmir]

I really like your idea of a black saison, sort of like a belgain equivalent to a dunkelweise.
I'm not sure I would try the nut/coconut/vanilla with such a strongly flavored yeast the first time around, seems like they would be competing a lot.

 

[Crazytwoknobs]

I've wanted to try a black Berliner Weisse for a long time...

 

[Lcasanova]

Why don't you use the vanilla bean in the primary or secondary? Wouldn't it all volatize even if you put it in at flameout?

 

[bovineblitz]

Oddly enough I have a commercial black saison in my fridge right now.

 

[kjjohns5]

Why don't you use the vanilla bean in the primary or secondary? Wouldn't it all volatize even if you put it in at flameout?

We were discussing this, and it's still a possibility, we just don't really want the vanilla (or any other of the flavors) to be too strong, as it may become in a lighter beer like this in the secondary. Stone's Vertical Epic 9-9-9 used vanilla at flameout and we like how subtle that taste is.

However, secondary flavoring is still up for debate. We're not completely sold on how to flavor this baby.

 

[kjjohns5]

Oddly enough I have a commercial black saison in my fridge right now.

Tell me how it is!!!

 

[Lcasanova]

We were discussing this, and it's still a possibility, we just don't really want the vanilla (or any other of the flavors) to be too strong, as it may become in a lighter beer like this in the secondary. Stone's Vertical Epic 9-9-9 used vanilla at flameout and we like how subtle that taste is.

However, secondary flavoring is still up for debate. We're not completely sold on how to flavor this baby.

Good to know, on my next double chocolate stout maybe I'll use it at flame out AND in secondary.

 

[kjjohns5]

Good to know, on my next double chocolate stout maybe I'll use it at flame out AND in secondary.

A little overkill never hurt nobody

 

[chask31]

Sounds like a great idea. I look forward to hearing how it tastes! I love a good saison.

 

[bovineblitz]

Tell me how it is!!!

I'll pop it after work tomorrow and let you know what I think. Cool concept.

 

[kjjohns5]

I really like your idea of a black saison, sort of like a belgain equivalent to a dunkelweise.
I'm not sure I would try the nut/coconut/vanilla with such a strongly flavored yeast the first time around, seems like they would be competing a lot.

I can understand your hesitation, believe me, I kind of have it too. For all I know, those flavors wont work. However, something tells me that it will taste really good. The nuts are the real question mark. I think a black saison with just vanilla and coconut would be amazing, I'm just hoping the nuts actually play a part.

 

[kjjohns5]

I'll pop it after work tomorrow and let you know what I think. Cool concept.

Awesome! Can't wait!

 

[whatsleftofyou]

The VP of our club made one once and it was incredible. +1 on skipping the nut/coconut/vanilla business, though. Could be good but probably more apt to ruin it I'd think.

 

[bovineblitz]

The VP of our club made one once and it was incredible. +1 on skipping the nut/coconut/vanilla business, though. Could be good but probably more apt to ruin it I'd think.

Idk if I'd call it a saison with stuff like that in it... but then again, a saison is basically whatever you want it to be.

 

[beerandcoding]

I just skimmed the thread, so I don't know if it has alreay been mentioned, but New Belgium makes a Dark Heather Saison. A great tasting beer, but more dark brown than black.

Mike, The Mad Fermentationist, has also done a couple dark Saisons. Here are the links to his recipes.

http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2008/10/dark-orange-rosemary-saison.html
http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2009/11/funky-dark-saison-with-black-cardamom.html

Cheers!
Kevin

 

[jessup]

don't worry about the haters, i say go for it and if it's off chalk it up to learning. it might be amazing i've gotta cascadian dark w/ WL saison yeast in primary right now which i expect to be interesting at the very least.

 

[ericd]

I'd go with a basic saision recipe then add in 1/2 of belgian debittered black...

 

[Shooter]

i've gotta cascadian dark saison in primary right now which i expect to be interesting at the very least.

I knew someone would say it...

Anyway, there it is, I'm off to watch a cool new Stephan Hawking show on Discovery Channel about Cascadian Dark Holes. Think I'll pick up a bag of Cascadian Dark licorice to enjoy while I'm watching it!

 

[bovineblitz]

So I had the commercial 'saison noir', it was really just brown, expected it to be darker. It was completely dominated by malt, I think it might have been too old... not bad, but certainly not good.

 

[iahebert]

I just skimmed the thread, so I don't know if it has alreay been mentioned, but New Belgium makes a Dark Heather Saison. A great tasting beer, but more dark brown than black.

Ack! you beat me to it. I had it on tap a couple times here in town and thought it wasn't bad at all, but didn't have the "saison-y" flavors I've come to know and love.

 

[kjjohns5]

I read the link from mad fermintationalist. Sounds delicious to me. We may end up cutting out the macadamia, but that's still up for debate. Possibly a vanilla coconut black saison. We'll see.

Hoping to brew this in a few weeks!

 

[Aa760]

So, what happened? Looks like this discussion happened a while ago. Any news on the results?

 

[Dontdropthebeer]

I'd also be curious as to how this turned out. Any updates?

 

[Beernik]

I've had a black saison on my To Do list all year. I'm hoping to get to it next month and brew it back-to-back with my pumpkin saison so I can split the starter between two beers.

 

[Dontdropthebeer]

How was this? I'm debating brewing a black saison this weekend and was looking for recipes.

Thread ressurection!

 

[BrewNow]

This has worked for me the past 3 years. I typically use White Labs Saison II but suppose 3711 may work as well. Aim for about 40 IBUs in the 90 minute addition and whatever floats your boat for the flavor and aroma. I stick with the English & German variety.


% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
54.2 6.50 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row) America 1.036 2
29.2 3.50 lbs. Pilsen (2 Row) France 1.039 2
9.4 1.13 lbs. Cane Sugar Generic 1.046 0
3.6 0.44 lbs. CaraMunich 60 France 1.034 60
3.6 0.44 lbs. De-Bittered Black Belgium 1.030 500