Black IPA Attempt

[MI_Dogman]

BREWERS... Assemble!!!

I need some help critiquing my black ipa all grain recipe that I have so far. First, I am going for that slight coffee roast flavor, light to medium body, and the big hop bomb (I like florally/piney). Please look at what I have below.

Batch: 5.2gal with a 6.2gal pre-boil
Expected OG: 1.064 with an expected FG 1.015
Mash: Single Infusion 150*F to 153*F with 1.25qt/lb of 163*F water.
Sparge: Batch Sparge 170*F
Boil: 60min
Expected ABV: 6.4%
Expected SRM: 35
Calculated IBU: 94
Yeast: WLP001 24hr Starter, fermented at 66*F

Grains:
2-Row- 10Lb 76.9%
Munich Lt- 1Lb 7.7%
De-Husked Caraf III - 1Lb 7.7%
Crystal 40*L- .5Lb 3.8%
White Wheat- .5Lb 3.8%

Hops:
Chinook- 1oz 60min
Simcoe- .5oz 15min
Amarillo- 1oz 15min
Simcoe- .5oz 10min
Amarillo- 1oz 10min
Simcoe- 1oz Dry Hop 5 Days

Irish Moss at 10min

Water:
I use store bought spring water right now. I haven't dabbled in the water chemistry arts yet.

I hope I am on the right track. I have been researching a lot on different grain bills and hop additions. I am still having a hard time with the Caraf III, like is
1lb to much and do I do a late addition. Any input is appreciated!!

Thanks,

Dogman

 

[CrimsonYeti]

Dogman,

The recipe actually sounds tasty. I have done several black Ipas. Carafa lll works great. I use just under a half pound in a 5g batch. Mine usually contain Crystal 80 and some chocolate malts. Can i ask what the white wheat is for?
Hop additiona look fine. I sometimes mix in cascade with simular recipe.

 

[joshesmusica]

As far as the hops, it's all about personal preference. I personally don't like the earthy/piney/spicey too much, and prefer only fruity and citrusy in my ipas. But I know a lot of people love chinook. And even a hop schedule is a hotly debated area, all based on preference. I have tried the only late additions, or get some IBUs from 60 mins, and then only hopstands from the rest. But I have also done traditional hopping schedules, but still loading up toward the end and dry hopping a ton. My preference is actually toward the latter method.

Your grain bill looks pretty good, and very similar to my black ipa recipe. I have only about 6% carafa III. I would personally drop the crystal. And then I have carapils for the body/head retention area instead of wheat. So mine is:

77.8% maris otter
7.8% munich
5.8% carafa III
3.2% carapils
.7% acidulated (to make sure pH gets to about 5.4; not necessary depending on your water profile)
4.6% table sugar (this is to make sure to dry it out)
mash at 152.

If you don't want to add the sugar, I would personally mash more like 148.

The main thing to remember for a black IPA recipe is that you don't actually want to load up with a lot of dark malts. You really only want the perception of a black ale, and a slight roastiness, but you still want this beer to be an IPA. The munich will give enough malt character, there's not much need for anything beyond that. Keep it simple.

 

[kombat]

Looks like a good base, and I mostly agree with @joshesmusica. Here's what I would change:

• 1 lb is waaaay too much roasted malt. Drop the Carafa III to 8 oz at most. "Black" IPAs don't have to be jet black - dark brown is still appropriate for the style. Even still, 8 oz of Carafa III should get it pretty darn black. Add it separately from the rest of the malts. I like to add mine while I'm adding my batch sparge water.
• Cut the wheat malt. It has to be milled separately. If it's only there for head retention, go with 4 oz of Carafoam or Carapils instead.
• Cut the Crystal 40 entirely. It doesn't add anything. Its colour contribution will be completely overwhelmed by the Carafa, and the Carafoam will give you enough body.
• Add some dextrose to boost the ABV and dry it out a little.
• 1 oz for dry hopping is far too weak for a big, bold IPA. I'd consider 2 oz a bare minimum, 4 oz is more reasonable for this recipe.
• I'd give your starter more than 24 hours. Let it ferment out completely, then cold crash and decant, then pitch the yeast slurry. I prepare mine 4 days ahead (i.e., if I'm brewing Saturday, I make my starter Wednesday night. Friday night, I move it into the fridge).
• Store-bought spring water will be fine, but consider adding a few (4-6) grams of gypsum, if you have it. That will harden the water up a little and really allow the bitterness to shine.

Hope this helps, let us know how it turns out.

 

[Kalmah]

I like using midnight wheat malt in my black IPAs. At 550 L, it's easy to get your black color while still keeping a simple malt build.

 

[Peruvian802]

I like using midnight wheat malt in my black IPAs. At 550 L, it's easy to get your black color while still keeping a simple malt build.

I used midnight wheat in my last black ipa. It kept a really nice mouthfeel. I over carbed it and the head was ridiculous.

 

[MI_Dogman]

This all sounds great! Crimson Yeti, the white wheat is there just because it is from my regular IPA recipe for head retention. I think I am going with the dextrin malt instead, good call. Definitely going lower on the Caraf III now that I have some input.

What would complement a more piney addition for hops at 60 min instead of chinook?

 

[Jonkl]

The only thing I would say is that the 15 min and 10 min additions seem a little redundant, since five minutes in the middle of the boil shouldn't make that much difference. I'd take the 10min hops and move them closer to flameout, and adjust the bittering IBUs accordingly, if you think it's necessary.

Everything else looks really solid. I'm looking forward to the Black IPA time of year.

 

[jimmykx250]

On the AHA forumn under recipes in the specialties beers there is one black ipa called rose city black ipa very close to your recipe and i have made it 3 times great beer!!!

 

[CrimsonYeti]

I typically use these hops:
Cascade
Summit
Centennial
chinook

Columbus to dry hop with cascade.

 

[MI_Dogman]

On the AHA forumn under recipes in the specialties beers there is one black ipa called rose city black ipa very close to your recipe and i have made it 3 times great beer!!!

That's great! What would you suggest? Keep it the same; mash, additions, ect. How have yours tasted using a grain bill like this?

Thanks!

 

[MI_Dogman]

I think I am going keep the bill the same. BUT, take that pound of Caraf III and split it. Mash half a pound for the length of the mash, and put the last half in with 10-5 min left to achieve that dark color without over doing it on the roast. And a half a pound of dextrin malt instead of white wheat, everything mashed at 150*f.

What do you Brewers think?

 

[jimmykx250]

I think I am going keep the bill the same. BUT, take that pound of Caraf III and split it. Mash half a pound for the length of the mash, and put the last half in with 10-5 min left to achieve that dark color without over doing it on the roast. And a half a pound of dextrin malt instead of white wheat, everything mashed at 150*f.

What do you Brewers think?

I am a BIAB brewer nd i split the carfa amount in half other than that all the same. I love that beer and have a batch fermenting right now.

 

[MI_Dogman]

Should I worry about my PH to much with that .5lb being mashed the full length? I haven't gone into the water chemistry part of brewing yet, but I am eager to start. I usually use store bought spring water.

 

[jimmykx250]

Should I worry about my PH to much with that .5lb being mashed the full length? I haven't gone into the water chemistry part of brewing yet, but I am eager to start. I usually use store bought spring water.

I dont worry about the mash ph. Just my two cents. I live on a private well and use unsoftened water run thru a carbon block fiilter.

 

[joshesmusica]

Should I worry about my PH to much with that .5lb being mashed the full length? I haven't gone into the water chemistry part of brewing yet, but I am eager to start. I usually use store bought spring water.

pH is most definitely something you should eventually be worrying about. For right now, I would just work on getting your brewing processes and fermentation parameters down. Once you start making pretty good beer, then you should start working your way through all of the deeply technical aspects in order to make great beer. At which point, I'm certain that you'll stop using spring water, as it's just a name that can mean pretty much anything.

But to say that you should never worry about pH and mineral content, isn't the truth at all.

 

[m00ps]

I think youre going to need much, much more hops if you really want a "hop bomb" I shoot for piney/dank hop profiles for my black IPAs and use midnight wheat just for the mashout to get the color and keep roast to an absolute minimum. Id also suggest adding come cane sugar to help dry it out. This is especially important with black IPAs to differentiate them from a hoppy stout.

This was the latest hop schedule for my last one. Like I said, "hop bomb". Very little bitterness, all hop punch. Key is the large hopstand
@30: 1 summit
@15: 1 simcoe / 1 adha484
@0: 1 simcoe / 3 adha484/ 2 chinook /
@+30: 1 simcoe / 2 chinook / 3 vics secret
@dry: 1 simcoe / 1 chinook
@dry2: 2 comet / 1 vics secret
@keg: 1 simcoe / 1 chinook

 

[TheMadKing]

I just made a double black IPA 2 weeks ago. I found that the roasty flavor was pretty good with a combination of Carafa II and black patent malt. The hops are really overpowering in these bad boys. I also threw in some victory to round out my flavor, but your crystal additions should do something similar.

I also did 3 ounces of dry hop (mixture of simcoe and centennial) for 12 days and it wasn't too much. If you want a hop bomb that's the way to go!

 

[MI_Dogman]

I think youre going to need much, much more hops if you really want a "hop bomb" I shoot for piney/dank hop profiles for my black IPAs and use midnight wheat just for the mashout to get the color and keep roast to an absolute minimum. Id also suggest adding come cane sugar to help dry it out. This is especially important with black IPAs to differentiate them from a hoppy stout.

This was the latest hop schedule for my last one. Like I said, "hop bomb". Very little bitterness, all hop punch. Key is the large hopstand
@30: 1 summit
@15: 1 simcoe / 1 adha484
@0: 1 simcoe / 3 adha484/ 2 chinook /
@+30: 1 simcoe / 2 chinook / 3 vics secret
@dry: 1 simcoe / 1 chinook
@dry2: 2 comet / 1 vics secret
@keg: 1 simcoe / 1 chinook

Ok! Noted on the hops. I already have those adjusted. For the cane sugar, I have not tried this yet. How much for this 5 gallon batch and does it go in the last 10 min?

 

[JR_Brewer]

BUT, take that pound of Carafa III and split it. Mash half a pound for the length of the mash, and put the last half in with 10-5 min left to achieve that dark color without over doing it on the roast.

Sounds like a good plan. I just dug up my notes on a Black IPA I did (with exclusively mosaic hops) and I did the equivalent of a pound of carafa for a 5 gall batch. While it came out great, it definitely had a nice roasty characteristic which was probably too much for the style.

As for cane sugar, doesn't matter when you add it during the boil. It adds alcohol without adding body, color, etc. Not a bad idea for an IPA (more so if you're using extract).

 

[joshesmusica]

Ok! Noted on the hops. I already have those adjusted. For the cane sugar, I have not tried this yet. How much for this 5 gallon batch and does it go in the last 10 min?

It's just any sugar really, in order to up the abv, but dry out the beer (because table sugar ferments fully, compared to the sugars from the grains, which include some amount of unfermentables). You can honestly add it at flameout, as it's still well above the pasteurization point. I would say 7-10% would be good enough.

 

[MI_Dogman]

Roger That! I'm ready to brew now! Just have to wait to get home from work.... Another two and half weeks at sea yet. Brewing on the 23rd, I will post how it turns out!

Thanks everybody for your input!