BIAB - Full Volume and pH

[bruhaha]

To the OP: One piece of equipment you'll certainly need is a Ph meter. They vary in price and function, but to know your Ph level "going in to the mash" is to make a better beer. Bru'n water is an invaluable tool for water management.

To Gavin C: I can't agree more that adjustments during the middle of a mash cycle is somewhat like shutting the barn door after the cow has gotten out. I did an iodine test last brew and I was converted in 20 minutes. I let the mash ride it out for 60 minutes for flavor extraction reasons......maybe that was unnecessary but I did it.

 

[bruhaha]

Sorry to necro a thread, but I wondered what your methodology is for deciding how much to add. I have no interest in running a chemistry lab, so looking for way to estimate. You're quite active in BIAB threads so would love to have a bit of guidance if you have the time to offer it.

Cheers!

I think your first step is to know what your source water's ph is. If you are using tap water you may get a municipal report, or Ward Lab is a good testing source. Depending on the beer you are making and the grains you'll use, target ph levels vary slightly. Bottom line: You need to have some idea what to adjust and how much.

I learned my values from folks on HBT and looing at YouTube videos on water management software such as Bru'n water. Palmer's book has a water section to consider. I know this is intimating, but to get really good beers from all grain, you will need to be aware of some of this. Extract is not as critical as the mash conversion is already done for you. Then there are salts to consider which is another but closely related subject. They all work together

Just to give you an example: My water is 7.4 Ph. To bring my Ph to 5.4 which is average, I add around 3.5 mL of lactic acid for a 5.5G batch with an average lighter malt grain bill. But I am using small amounts of Epsom salts, CaCl or Gypsum which can influence my Ph as well. I find lactic acid easier to manage than acidulated malts, but others offer different advice. This is not in stone, just the example you asked for. Hope it helps.

 

[casualbrewer]

Been using acid blend from my lhbs. For most of my modest grain bills a 1/2 tsp is working perfect for a pH between 5.2 and 5.4. keeps things simple.

 

[BeardedBrews]

For what it's worth, I was completely overwhelmed by water calculations when I switched to BIAB. After a ton of reading the easiest solution for me was to use the Brewer's Friend calculator:
http://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-chemistry-and-brewing-water-calculator/

I had to call the water company to get my local water report, but once I saved that in BF it was pretty easy. The calculator will take your recipe and your mash volume and calculate out both the mineral levels and the resulting pH. It has been within 0.1 each time I've measured.

I can echo bruha in the 3-4mL of lactic + CaCl and Gypsum to make a light grain bill hit 5.3-5.4 but since it is not that hard to calculate I would just put it in the system.

 

[TexasWine]

Sorry to necro a thread, but I wondered what your methodology is for deciding how much to add. I have no interest in running a chemistry lab, so looking for way to estimate. You're quite active in BIAB threads so would love to have a bit of guidance if you have the time to offer it.

Cheers!

My approach, start with RO water and use Brewer's Friend to predict the pH based on the grain bill. I might be crucified for saying this, but I don't measure my pH. I've had enough people say the software predictions are close enough to the actual readings that I'm comfortable with this approach.

Simple, and it appears to be effective.

 

[TexasWine]

I think your first step is to know what your source water's ph is.

Actually, the alkalinity of the water is more relevant than the pH. The starting pH doesn't mean a whole lot, but the water's capacity to neutralize an acid is.

 

[Morrey]

My approach, start with RO water and use Brewer's Friend to predict the pH based on the grain bill. I might be crucified for saying this, but I don't measure my pH. I've had enough people say the software predictions are close enough to the actual readings that I'm comfortable with this approach.

Simple, and it appears to be effective.

You are a good brewer with experience. You know the drill.

Actually, the alkalinity of the water is more relevant than the pH. The starting pH doesn't mean a whole lot, but the water's capacity to neutralize an acid is.

True as we all agree. The OP seems more headed in the direction of knowing how to deal with Ph with the use of acidulated malts to adjust.

To a novice brewer, water management is intimating. If he sticks a ph strip in his source water and gets a reading, he'd be at least one step in the right direction.

 

[RedlegEd]

My approach, start with RO water and use Brewer's Friend to predict the pH based on the grain bill. I might be crucified for saying this, but I don't measure my pH. I've had enough people say the software predictions are close enough to the actual readings that I'm comfortable with this approach.

Simple, and it appears to be effective.

+1 this. I use Brewer's Friend for my recipe/inventory management/brewing checklists, but use Bru'n Water for my chemistry. Like Gavin C, I used to check my pH at room temp a/a 30 minutes into the mash, but found that I was consistently within +/- 0.1 of the Bru'n Water prediction. Since then, I don't measure anymore and rely on the software's calculations. The other thing I like about Bru'n Water is using a basic flavor profile such as "Yellow-Full/Dry/Balanced, Brown-Full/Dry/Balanced, etc." instead of trying to emulate a specific region's water (e.g. Edinburgh, Vienna, Munich, etc.) Ultimately, I think the less stuff you add to your water to get good beer, the better.

 

[Morrey]

+1 this. I use Brewer's Friend for my recipe/inventory management/brewing checklists, but use Bru'n Water for my chemistry. Like Gavin C, I used to check my pH at room temp a/a 30 minutes into the mash, but found that I was consistently within +/- 0.1 of the Bru'n Water prediction. Since then, I don't measure anymore and rely on the software's calculations. The other thing I like about Bru'n Water is using a basic flavor profile such as "Yellow-Full/Dry/Balanced, Brown-Full/Dry/Balanced, etc." instead of trying to emulate a specific region's water (e.g. Edinburgh, Vienna, Munich, etc.) Ultimately, I think the less stuff you add to your water to get good beer, the better.

Good points, Ed. I have always found the programs I use (Bru'n Water and BeerSmith) to be very accurate in their projections. Of course some basic understanding of what is actually going on makes all of this more meaningful to the OP as he indicates he doesn't want to get too deep.

Crazy thing is when I sent my water samples to Ward Labs, the results look darn near identical to Munich Boiled. What luck as I have very little adjustments to make with a neutral slate as I have. Like you, I use the style profiles, not the city water profiles. Who knows what the brewer actually uses, but I doubt source water unadjusted.

 

[RedlegEd]

How do you control mash pH on a full volume BIAB mash? Looking at a BrunWater it seems the pH will go up a good amount if you do full volume.

Sorry OP, I forgot to answer your initial question. I normally use Lactic Acid 88% and salt additions if my grain bill doesn't lower the pH into the proper range (i.e. < 5.6,) my Calcium is below 50 ppm (for the yeasties,) and I need to adjust the taste profile.

Good points, Ed. I have always found the programs I use (Bru'n Water and BeerSmith) to be very accurate in their projections. Of course some basic understanding of what is actually going on makes all of this more meaningful to the OP as he indicates he doesn't want to get too deep.

Crazy thing is when I sent my water samples to Ward Labs, the results look darn near identical to Munich Boiled. What luck as I have very little adjustments to make with a neutral slate as I have. Like you, I use the style profiles, not the city water profiles. Who knows what the brewer actually uses, but I doubt source water unadjusted.

@morrey. I too found my Ward Labs report to be an eye opener. For all intents and purposes, tap water in Collierville, TN is pretty much like RO, which also gives me a clean slate and makes for really great, light lagers.

 

[enkamania]

For all intents and purposes, tap water in Collierville, TN is pretty much like RO, which also gives me a clean slate and makes for really great, light lagers.

I've posted my Seattle water profile and people get really mad how easy I have it.

 

[Upthewazzu]

Memphis and Seattle have great water.

Eastern Washington has garbage water contaminated by years of farming. I either start from scratch with RO or mix 50/50 depending on the style.

I've been using brewers friend as my guide, but might switch to bru'n water and work with their style guide instead. I'm doing my first batch of BIAB this weekend so this thread has been helpful, thanks for bumping it.

 

[Gavin C]

This post might be of use to those following this thread. I was hoping to illustrate the dynamic nature of a mash pH.

Full Volume, fine milling, pH managed via preplanned measures.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=7561787&postcount=21

 

[Brew_G]

My approach, start with RO water and use Brewer's Friend to predict the pH based on the grain bill. I might be crucified for saying this, but I don't measure my pH. I've had enough people say the software predictions are close enough to the actual readings that I'm comfortable with this approach.

Simple, and it appears to be effective.

I do the same.

For me, I didn't want to spend any more than I had to in order to get started all-grain brewing - another piece of gear did t seem worth it. Since I started using RO, I've felt perfectly comfortable with the numbers Bru'n Water spits out for me because my beers have come out quite good. Could they be better? Maybe, but I'm more than happy with what I'm serving my family and friends right now!