BIAB Brewing (with pics)

[Mysticmead]

This is my problem. I only have a 7.5 gal. kettle and in my first attempt at BIAB, not only did I not have my grains double milled (found out after the fact that this is recommended) but I was told to just top off my fermenter with tap water to get my desired 5 gal. The result was a very weak and watered down version of the beer I was hoping to brew.

I have since learned that double milling is a must and I have also come across a 5 gal. kettle that I am going to use to sparge with. I'm going to mash in about 6.5 gal of water in my larger kettle just like I did in my first batch, and then I'm going to go ahead and sparge the grains in about 3 gal. of water in the 5 gal. kettle and then combine the two back into the 7.5 gal kettle for the boil and see how that turns out.

that should work out a lot better than just topping off

 

[MMJfan]

Barefoot brewing. Love it!

Isn't that the only way to brew?

 

[Euphist]

Isn't that the only way to brew?

not in Michigan it isn't!

 

[MMJfan]

Well, I'm from Ohio. Barefoot outdoors in the summer. Barefoot indoors in the winter...

 

[WileECoyote]

Hello, I just did my first BIAB thanks to this thread, I have to say it was really pretty easy, not much different than doing the extract brews with steeping grains that I have been doing, other than having 2 pots on the stove, i did a dunk sparge in the second pot, worked great.

This was a very enjoyable brewing day, Thanks for the BIAB thread.

I just read a page back, That its important to double mill my grains when doing BIAB, How important is this to do? and how fine of a crush should I be doing/looking for?
I just got a MM2-2.0 just to start doing BIABs and set the gap at .44 thou, but I only ran my grains through it once, because the crush looked good.

Cheers

 

[MMJfan]

Hello, I just did my first BIAB thanks to this thread, I have to say it was really pretty easy, not much different than doing the extract brews with steeping grains that I have been doing, other than having 2 pots on the stove, i did a dunk sparge in the second pot, worked great.

This was a very enjoyable brewing day, Thanks for the BIAB thread.

I just read a page back, That its important to double mill my grains when doing BIAB, How important is this to do? and how fine of a crush should I be doing/looking for?
I just got a MM2-2.0 just to start doing BIABs and set the gap at .44 thou, but I only ran my grains through it once, because the crush looked good.

Cheers

I don't think it's necessary to double mill if you are crushing the grains yourself because you can adjust your mill to a finer crush than you would get at a LHBS. I think the double milling is recommended for those who don't have their own grain mill and get their grains crushed at a LHBS.

 

[eulipion2]

I don't think it's necessary to double mill if you are crushing the grains yourself because you can adjust your mill to a finer crush than you would get at a LHBS. I think the double milling is recommended for those who don't have their own grain mill and get their grains crushed at a LHBS.

I disagree with this (the joys of homebrewing! ) I use the standard LHBS grind and still manage to get 75%+ efficiency pretty much every time. If I do a low-gravity brew I can count on mid-to-upper 80's. To me, the primary factors seem to be mashing out and squeezing the bag. I'm a little scared to see what my efficiency would be with a finer grind!

 

[Mysticmead]

as long as every kernel is crushed. remember with biab you can crush very fine which gives better efficiency

 

[SiriusStarr]

I'll ask this here, since it seems to be the local repository of BIAB knowledge, and I haven't been able to find anything. I'm getting ready to do my first BIAB batch soon and was wondering, what ratio of water to grain do most people use for BIAB? 1.0-2.0 qt / lb is of course the recommended range for AG brewing, but it sounds like most people who aren't sparging are using a much thinner mash than this?

I ask because I would think (just from Michaelis–Menten kinetics) that efficiency would be reduced at extreme thinness (unless mashing for much longer), since the substrate concentration is reduced (and so the rate of conversion is reduced).

 

[eulipion2]

what ratio of water to grain do most people use for BIAB? 1.0-2.0 qt / lb is of course the recommended range for AG brewing, but it sounds like most people who aren't sparging are using a much thinner mash than this?

I think most people with a large enough kettle capacity tend to mash with full volume. I, for example, use about 8 gallons (depending on the brew), mash-out and squeeze the bag. I generally get about 75%+ efficiency.

 

[Mysticmead]

I'll ask this here, since it seems to be the local repository of BIAB knowledge, and I haven't been able to find anything. I'm getting ready to do my first BIAB batch soon and was wondering, what ratio of water to grain do most people use for BIAB? 1.0-2.0 qt / lb is of course the recommended range for AG brewing, but it sounds like most people who aren't sparging are using a much thinner mash than this?

I ask because I would think (just from Michaelis–Menten kinetics) that efficiency would be reduced at extreme thinness (unless mashing for much longer), since the substrate concentration is reduced (and so the rate of conversion is reduced).

I think most people with a large enough kettle capacity tend to mash with full volume. I, for example, use about 8 gallons (depending on the brew), mash-out and squeeze the bag. I generally get about 75%+ efficiency.

yeah... what eulipion2 said.

to determine water needed use batch size + absorption + boil off +trub loss = water needed.
to determine absorption use weight of grains * .066 = absorption.

of course the water absorbed can be higher or lower depending on how much you squeeze the bag. don't worry about tannin extraction from squeezing.. that myth has been busted a while ago.

 

[thughes]

I'll ask this here, since it seems to be the local repository of BIAB knowledge, and I haven't been able to find anything. I'm getting ready to do my first BIAB batch soon and was wondering, what ratio of water to grain do most people use for BIAB? 1.0-2.0 qt / lb is of course the recommended range for AG brewing, but it sounds like most people who aren't sparging are using a much thinner mash than this?

I ask because I would think (just from Michaelis–Menten kinetics) that efficiency would be reduced at extreme thinness (unless mashing for much longer), since the substrate concentration is reduced (and so the rate of conversion is reduced).

Normal (full-volume no-sparge BIAB with mashout and squeeze the bag) batch for me is @ 12lb grain and @ 8.5 gallons water, that's almost 3 qts/lb and I get a consistent 82-83% efficiency.

Instead of taking all the scientific theories and advice from non-BIAB brewers as gospel, I'd suggest trying it for yourself and drawing your own conclusions.

 

[mrgstiffler]

I'll ask this here, since it seems to be the local repository of BIAB knowledge, and I haven't been able to find anything. I'm getting ready to do my first BIAB batch soon and was wondering, what ratio of water to grain do most people use for BIAB? 1.0-2.0 qt / lb is of course the recommended range for AG brewing, but it sounds like most people who aren't sparging are using a much thinner mash than this?

I ask because I would think (just from Michaelis–Menten kinetics) that efficiency would be reduced at extreme thinness (unless mashing for much longer), since the substrate concentration is reduced (and so the rate of conversion is reduced).

Most conversation is done within the first 20-30 minutes of the mash. So mashing for a full hour accounts for any additional time needed with BIAB.

 

[mirogster]

I'm also mashing appr. 3 qt/lb, 60 min + 10 min mashout. And exta few mins for mini sparging, dunk sparge, squeezing the bag - if needed etc while wort is going up to the boil.
So ratio 2,5.- 3 qt/lb is pretty common among the biabers. As previous post said, conversion is / should be done in first half hour. Experiment and check it yourself with iodine. No bother about density of the solution, check new(october) BYO and some experiments results at biabrewer.info.

 

[SiriusStarr]

I think most people with a large enough kettle capacity tend to mash with full volume. I, for example, use about 8 gallons (depending on the brew), mash-out and squeeze the bag. I generally get about 75%+ efficiency.

So say 32qt, that's probably 2.0-3.2 qt / lb ish (10 to 16 lbs of grain for a 5 gallon batch) with no notable loss of efficiency.

I have an 8 gallon brew kettle (bought it before I knew about BIAB, grr) and equivalently sized bag, so I'm right on the edge of having to do partial mash (for stronger beers). Do people find that their BIAB efficiency is reduced with thicker mashes (just thinking it's more likely to be retained in the grain without sparging)? A mash-out would be a must, of course. My concern is not having enough pre-boil volume; I'll have to run the numbers.

EDIT: Sorry, forum glitched for me and didn't show the mass of other replies... I suppose since most of the enzymatic action occurs early on in the mash, the full hour should take care of any slightly decreased rate.

 

[thughes]

I have heard anecdotal evidence from other BIAB'ers that a thicker mash (usually a necessity when doing big beers) does result in a lowered efficiency but as I have not tested this myself I cannot say for sure. Perhaps some BIAB'ers that have experience doing high gravity beers can chime in here?

 

[SiriusStarr]

I have heard anecdotal evidence from other BIAB'ers that a thicker mash (usually a necessity when doing big beers) does result in a lowered efficiency but as I have not tested this myself I cannot say for sure. Perhaps some BIAB'ers that have experience doing high gravity beers can chime in here?

This wouldn't surprise me, since I think the reason you can get away with no sparge with BIAB is because the mash is so thin.

I'm thinking the best option at this point for me is to mash up to ~7-8 lbs and add DME as needed for higher gravity beers. 8 lb @ 3.0 qt/lb = 6 gallon, which should be about the max in my 8 gallon pot (including the grain volume), keeping in mind that I'll need enough pre-boil volume.

 

[eulipion2]

About the highest I've tried so far has been about 1.070 with about 74% efficiency. If I do smaller beers in the 1.030's I tend to get in the mid- to upper-80's. I've got a couple "to be brewed" beers in my sig, and once I get those under my belt I'll let you know how my efficiency is on big beers.

 

[SiriusStarr]

About the highest I've tried so far has been about 1.070 with about 74% efficiency. If I do smaller beers in the 1.030's I tend to get in the mid- to upper-80's. I've got a couple "to be brewed" beers in my sig, and once I get those under my belt I'll let you know how my efficiency is on big beers.

Oh man, a Three Philosophers clone... I think I'm gonna need a sample bottle to confirm your efficiency.

 

[Mysticmead]

if you have a smaller pot... just sparge by either dunking (think tea bag) or by pouring hot water through the grains as the bag sit over the kettle. just reduce the full volume of water by 2-3 gallons.. mash and then sparge. it's still BIAB just not full volume.

 

[SiriusStarr]

if you have a smaller pot... just sparge by either dunking (think tea bag) or by pouring hot water through the grains as the bag sit over the kettle. just reduce the full volume of water by 2-3 gallons.. mash and then sparge. it's still BIAB just not full volume.

Was considering it, just wondering what kind of efficiency loss one would get from this; I don't have a second pot large enough to do the teabag sparge in, so I'd have to pour.

 

[Mysticmead]

Was considering it, just wondering what kind of efficiency loss one would get from this; I don't have a second pot large enough to do the teabag sparge in, so I'd have to pour.

if you pour slowly, and squeeze the hell out of the bag when done, you should lose very little. just plan the recipe on 70%. if you get better YAY!! if lower, you didn't crush finer and/or squeeze enough

 

[weeple2000]

Was considering it, just wondering what kind of efficiency loss one would get from this; I don't have a second pot large enough to do the teabag sparge in, so I'd have to pour.

How big of a pot would I need for tea bag sparging? Is 5 gallons too small?

 

[weeple2000]

How big of a pot would I need for tea bag sparging? Is 5 gallons too small?

On second thought, could I use my bucket if my pot is too small?

 

[Mysticmead]

5 gallon would work... or the bucket..

 

[Fordzilla]

Did my second BIAB today, it went great. I only lost about 2 degrees in the 60 minute mash. Did a mash out this time as well. Looking forward to many more BIAB brews.

 

[thughes]

FYI, posted in another forum as part of a research project on mashout vs no mashout, below are my gravity numbers taken at regular intervals over the duration of a standard no-sparge mash. I picked up @ 4 gravity points with my mashout.

Notes:
-pure BIAB (full volume, no sparge)
-gravity reading taken with a refractometer, each sample was drawn into a pipette and pipette cooled with tap water
-refractometer reads in brix, I used Sean Terrill's calculator to convert the gravity readings

Here you go:

15 minutes: 7.4 brix/1.0282 (mash temp 154F)
30 minutes: 7.8 brix/1.0298 (mash temp 154F)
45 minutes: 8.6 brix/1.0329 (mash temp 154F)
60 minutes: 10.0 brix/1.0384 (mash temp 152F)
75 minutes: 10.5 brix/1.0404 (mash temp 150F)

I then ramped temp up to mashout (168F) over 15 minutes:

90 minutes: 11.2 brix/1.0432 (mash temp 168F)

I let it sit at mashout temp for 15 minutes:

105 minutes: 11.4 brix/1.0440 (mash temp 167F)

Pull bag and squeeze:

pre-boil: 11.5 brix/1.0444 (mash temp N/A)

So, it's only one set of data but it looks like the squeeze is a total waste of time other than getting my pre-boil volume where it needs to be (I only picked up .0004 gravity points). I think I'll just add a tiny bit more starting water and stop wasting my time squeezing!

 

[Mysticmead]

Did my second BIAB today, it went great. I only lost about 2 degrees in the 60 minute mash. Did a mash out this time as well. Looking forward to many more BIAB brews.

congrats! have you asked yourself the important question yet? that would be "Why did I wait so long to try BIAB?"

 

[Fordzilla]

congrats! have you asked yourself the important question yet? that would be "Why did I wait so long to try BIAB?"

Haha I guess brewing all grain with any method was a little intimidating. Extract is simpler, quicker and I knew I could make good beer. BIAB has only added about 30-45 min to my brew day though, and the beer is fantastic.

 

[SiriusStarr]

if you pour slowly, and squeeze the hell out of the bag when done, you should lose very little. just plan the recipe on 70%. if you get better YAY!! if lower, you didn't crush finer and/or squeeze enough

I'll give it a shot. I crunched the numbers and I should be able to do a full volume mash for my next brew, but I'll try this or the bucket if not. Cheers!