BIAB Brewing (with pics)

[Kaz]

I just racked a BIAB All grain batch of pale ale to keg last night, using nothing but Irish Moss in the boil, no crash cooling or anything and it looked as clear as any other brew I've done. I'm betting a couple of weeks in the fridge at 38F and it will be crystal clear.

 

[Philip_T]

So, I'm getting ready to try the AG BIAB method soon, and I'm trying figure out my water volume needed, but my head is starting to spin and just need some clarification.

I only have a 32 qt (8 gal) kettle, and I'm wanting to brew a IIPA that calls for ~13-14 lbs of grains, so I don't think I'll have enough volume to do a no sparge method. I have another stock pot that is approximately 3.5 gallons, so that should work for the access water/sparge dunk needed.

Here's the question.

If I want to finish with approximately 4.5 gallons....does this look correct?
4.5 + 1.5 (90 minute boil off) + 1.4 absorption (14*.1) + .25 trub = 7.65 total water needed.
obviously, I can't put 7.65 gallons of water in my 8 gallon kettle and expect 14 lbs of grains to fit, so I need to remove about 2 to 2.5 gallons of water and use it as a sparge dunk.

Does this sound right?

 

[wrench]

So, I'm getting ready to try the AG BIAB method soon, and I'm trying figure out my water volume needed, but my head is starting to spin and just need some clarification.

I only have a 32 qt (8 gal) kettle, and I'm wanting to brew a IIPA that calls for ~13-14 lbs of grains, so I don't think I'll have enough volume to do a no sparge method. I have another stock pot that is approximately 3.5 gallons, so that should work for the access water/sparge dunk needed.

Here's the question.

If I want to finish with approximately 4.5 gallons....does this look correct?
4.5 + 1.5 (90 minute boil off) + 1.4 absorption (14*.1) + .25 trub = 7.65 total water needed.
obviously, I can't put 7.65 gallons of water in my 8 gallon kettle and expect 14 lbs of grains to fit, so I need to remove about 2 to 2.5 gallons of water and use it as a sparge dunk.

Does this sound right?

Check out "Can I mash it" at http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml. 5 gallons (7.65 total - 2.65 for sparge) = 20 qts. 20qts/14lbs = 1.43 qts/lb. Plug that in with your 14lb grain bill and you get a hair over 6 gallons of needed mash tun volume. You should be all set, at least in theory. Boiling 7+ gallons in an 8 gallon pot is a whole different story.

 

[Mysticmead]

So, I'm getting ready to try the AG BIAB method soon, and I'm trying figure out my water volume needed, but my head is starting to spin and just need some clarification.

I only have a 32 qt (8 gal) kettle, and I'm wanting to brew a IIPA that calls for ~13-14 lbs of grains, so I don't think I'll have enough volume to do a no sparge method. I have another stock pot that is approximately 3.5 gallons, so that should work for the access water/sparge dunk needed.

Here's the question.

If I want to finish with approximately 4.5 gallons....does this look correct?
4.5 + 1.5 (90 minute boil off) + 1.4 absorption (14*.1) + .25 trub = 7.65 total water needed.
obviously, I can't put 7.65 gallons of water in my 8 gallon kettle and expect 14 lbs of grains to fit, so I need to remove about 2 to 2.5 gallons of water and use it as a sparge dunk.

Does this sound right?

that'll work

 

[Philip_T]

Check out "Can I mash it" at http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml. 5 gallons (7.65 total - 2.65 for sparge) = 20 qts. 20qts/14lbs = 1.43 qts/lb. Plug that in with your 14lb grain bill and you get a hair over 6 gallons of needed mash tun volume. You should be all set, at least in theory. Boiling 7+ gallons in an 8 gallon pot is a whole different story.

Thanks wrench. I've never tried to boil that much volume in my kettle, but at least it will be with a turkey fryer and not on the stove top.

 

[Philip_T]

that'll work

Thanks Mystic.....looks like all systems are go for next weekend!

 

[thughes]

Try this spreadsheet I put together to save me trouble. (Math is hard...)

Here's the formula I used:

=SUM(C1+(C2*C3)+(C4*C5)+C6+C7-C8)

C1=desired finish volume (gallons)
C2=grain weight (pounds)
C3=grain absorption (gallon/pound)
C4=boil-off rate (gallon/hour)
C5=boil time (hours)
C6=kettle loss (gallons)
C7=fermenter loss (gallons)
C8=starter size (gallons)
SUM=total water volume needed (gallons)


Edit: can't do attachments.

 

[Mysticmead]

you won't be boiling 7+ gallons.. once you subtract the absorption amount you're in the 6 gallon range. that's doable in an 8 gallon brew pot you just have to be ready to cut the heat to avoid a boil over.. or better yet, keep a spray bottle of cold water handy to spray the foam..

 

[Philip_T]

you won't be boiling 7+ gallons.. once you subtract the absorption amount you're in the 6 gallon range. that's doable in an 8 gallon brew pot you just have to be ready to cut the heat to avoid a boil over.. or better yet, keep a spray bottle of cold water handy to spray the foam..

That makes sense. Say I start with 5 gallons for mashing and 2.65 for sparge. I will lose 1.4 gallons from the 5 to leave me with 3.6...then add the 2.65 for 6.25. Actually, will probably be a little under that with some additional absorption of the sparge water. Say 6 gallons to boil for 90 minutes with 1.5 gal boil off = 4.5 gallons.

Thanks for the formula thughes, I'll plug that into excel for future use.

 

[Mysticmead]

the grain isn't going to absorb much (if any) more with the sparge.. but you're on the right track.

 

[thughes]

the grain isn't going to absorb much (if any) more with the sparge.. but you're on the right track.

I've found the absorption rate to be @ .075 gal/lb after a good squeezing.

 

[dobo]

I just racked a BIAB All grain batch of pale ale to keg last night, using nothing but Irish Moss in the boil, no crash cooling or anything and it looked as clear as any other brew I've done. I'm betting a couple of weeks in the fridge at 38F and it will be crystal clear.

Ditto, except mine was an EPA I racked about a week ago and I used Whirlfloc instead.

I have a Cream Ale on tap now that was the first BIAB batch I ever attempted and just blindly trusted what all the other BIAB brewers were saying about not fretting about the clarity issue, as it all works out in the end. The Cream Ale is pouring so clear others swear up and down that I filtered it, but it's not.

My basic process that is working splendidly for very clear BIAB batches:

BIAB in a Bayou Classic 4042 with the boil/steam basket and a weldless spigot installed (since I use a plate chiller that is gravity fed). The basket allows for easy support of bigger grain bills (I do have a pulley set up for lifting, rinsing and squeezing so I can concentrate on important things while brewing, like drinking beer instead of wondering if my arms will hold out in lifting a hot bag of spent grains) and serves as a false bottom of sorts so I can fire the kettle for mash out etc without removing the bag since it is a good 3" off the bottom based on the Bayou design. I do rinse my grains to get things topped up to my starting boil volume (amount of water depends on size of grain bill) and I squeeze the hell out of the bag and have been getting +90% efficiency consistently. I installed the weldless valve so there is about 1 gallon of dead space that doesn't drain (closer to 1.125 gal since I was a bit off on my calculations) which is perfect for leaving the hot break behind with hardly any clear wort wasted. I boil with a half a tablet of Whilfloc added at 10 minutes remaining in the boil. Whirlpool and let stand for at least 1 hour for the break to settle and cone down (with the lid on the temp only drops to around 190-200 which keeps the nasties at bay since it's enclosed and hot). I do boil my hops and other additions in a "hop spider" (see other threads if you need info on a spider) so I don't have to worry about clogging up my plate chiller - but I would guess that my whirlpool and kettle dead space would accommodate that amount of "stuff" at the bottom of the kettle and still allow for a clean transfer without any screens or the likes on the inside of the valve if I added the hops directly.

I chill down to 65˚ using a counterflow plate chiller to transfer into my conical. Wine thief a sample off the top for an O.G. reading (it takes a while for the cold break to settle below the racking port for an accurate reading not skewed by the trub density, so I take it from the top now instead of waisting a bunch of potential beer trying to dump the cold break right away), pitch the yeast and close everything up.

After about a week (or when the active fermentation has finished based on gravity readings) I dump the trub that settled via the conical's bottom dump valve which is effectively the same as transferring to secondary. Harvest yeast after at least one more trub dump so I am getting viable yeast from the middle of the yeast cake, and wait for secondary to finish up.

Rack to a keg, force carb it or let it age depending on what the style calls for/ how soon I want to drink it (not uncommon for me to do ales that are 2 weeks total from grain to tap).

BIAB produces very clear beer without a whole lot of fuss, plain and simple.

 

[jonstewartstwin]

2 points of clarification... with regard to the part where you press the grain w/a pot lid, I've read not to press/squeeze the grain, as it releases tannins... is this an issue, or not so much...#2, when you mill the grains finer, doesn't that clog the spigot when transferring? thanks!!

 

[jaginger]

Most believe that tannins are not extracted from the modest pressure similar to a lid pressing on the grain.

On milling finer, the point of the BIAB is that it contains all the grain throughout the mash so no worries of clogging. Your wort will probably be a little more cloudy than wort that was recirculated or filtered through a grain bed. But the final beer can be just as clear as non-BIAB brew.

hope that helps.

 

[Mysticmead]

Most believe that tannins are not extracted from the modest pressure similar to a lid pressing on the grain.

On milling finer, the point of the BIAB is that it contains all the grain throughout the mash so no worries of clogging. Your wort will probably be a little more cloudy than wort that was recirculated or filtered through a grain bed. But the final beer can be just as clear as non-BIAB brew.

hope that helps.

+100 here... if you think about the simple physics involved with a commercial brewery the amount of grains they mash will put more pressure on the grains that you can by squeezing or pressing with a lid. some commercial breweries use a press to make sure they get all the wort wit no tannins extracted. Tannins are more likely to be extracted by heat and/or PH

 

[thughes]

+200. Tannins are the result of heat and/or PH and are not any more likely to appear with BIAB as opposed to any other method. If you've got tannin problems it has to do with your process, not squeezing your grain.

 

[Seven]

2 points of clarification... with regard to the part where you press the grain w/a pot lid, I've read not to press/squeeze the grain, as it releases tannins... is this an issue, or not so much...#2, when you mill the grains finer, doesn't that clog the spigot when transferring? thanks!!

I've noticed no off-flavors whatsoever (tannins) in my BIAB beers and I always squeeze the grain.

The kettle spigot doesn't clog because all of the grain is removed from the wort when the bag or basket is lifted from the kettle at the end of the mash. The only stuff left in my kettle at the end of the boil is break material and this isn't a problem if you whirlpool the wort then siphon carefully to the fermentation carboy/bucket.

Hope this helps!

 

[jonstewartstwin]

does help! in prior partial mashes ive done, the instructions contraindicated squeezing the grain bag, but that's why i'm on this forum! w/regard to the grain clogging, i thought the finer particles would get thru the grain bag, but again, i'll take your word for it...BIAB, here i come...thanks!!

 

[Mysticmead]

does help! in prior partial mashes ive done, the instructions contraindicated squeezing the grain bag, but that's why i'm on this forum! w/regard to the grain clogging, i thought the finer particles would get thru the grain bag, but again, i'll take your word for it...BIAB, here i come...thanks!!

anything that can make it through the voile fabric is going to be extremely fine and would not clog anything. now if you use a course grain bag... or similar then who knows.

 

[dobo]

I think others have already covered the fact that tannins are a result of water chemistry and temp so if you are doing a mash out (I would recommend that you do since it helps with the efficiency) just make sure that you don't overshoot your temp (typically you want to hold at 170˚ for 10 minutes- at least that's what I do). I don't recall what the upper threshold is before you run the risk of going too high, maybe someone else here does. You might want to do a dry run with water and flame to determine how much more the temp will rise after you flame out for mashing out unless you want to go thru and calculate based on the mass and materials of your rig. Sure the grain plays a role in the real deal, but this will get you close.

The spigot isn't an issue given the size of anything that would make it's way thru the fine mesh would settle when you whirlpool. If you use a wort fining agent the stuff that makes it thru drops out with the hot break. Just make sure you allocate an appropriate number of beers to drink while you wait for the cone to form after whirl-pooling and you will have clear, tannin free wort that will pass thru the spigot/plate chiller without issue.

 

[jonstewartstwin]

Just make sure you allocate an appropriate number of beers to drink while you wait for the cone to form after whirl-pooling and you will have clear, tannin free wort that will pass thru the spigot/plate chiller without issue.[/QUOTE]

that's the best advice i've gotten so far!

 

[BlueZooBrewing]

For those of you who don't have the option of setting up a pulley over your BIAB Kettle (Stovetop BIAB, Outdoor BIAB, Apartment Brewers who can't mount pulleys), If you don't mind lifting the pot the height it needs to be at, get a couple of stainless S hooks from a hardware store, and hook them in the holes of the basket and over the edge of the kettle to "lock in" the basket at a certain height. If you can lift it for the 30 seconds it takes to throw in the hooks you can let it drain or press it to drain without needing a pulley with lockoff or a separate strainer straddling the pot. My BIAB method is very similar to the one described here, but since I use a kitchen range I haven't got the option of a pulley. My guess is it would also be a heck of a lot easier than setting up a ladder and pulley system for those of you who BIAB outdoors.

 

[Mysticmead]

I don't use a basket... no real need. lift the bag.. set it in a colander

 

[mfraier]

I don't use a basket... no real need. lift the bag.. set it in a colander

I don't use a pulley either.....I just lift and set on an oven rack layed across the top of the pot.

 

[Kaz]

I don't use a pulley either.....I just lift and set on an oven rack layed across the top of the pot.

+1 I just did it this way last brew. If you have a big lid you can even press out a lot of wort.

 

[BlueZooBrewing]

I don't use a basket... no real need. lift the bag.. set it in a colander

The basket came with the pot and I dont personally have a big enough or sturdy enough colander.

With the baking rack method, did you have any runoff/spill issues when squeezing or pressing the bag out?

 

[Mysticmead]

The basket came with the pot and I dont personally have a big enough or sturdy enough colander.

With the baking rack method, did you have any runoff/spill issues when squeezing or pressing the bag out?

I just use a simple plastic colander that sits on top of my smaller old brew pot. I let it drip for 20 minutes (simulating sparge time for FWH) then spin the bag to tighten and squeeze the grains.. once as tight as it can go by spinning I squeeze it by hand.

that of course is how I do it.. like all things with brewing, you have to find what works best for you and your equipment. There is no right or wrong as long as you make beer.

 

[Philip_T]

So, I'm getting ready to try the AG BIAB method soon, and I'm trying figure out my water volume needed, but my head is starting to spin and just need some clarification.

I only have a 32 qt (8 gal) kettle, and I'm wanting to brew a IIPA that calls for ~13-14 lbs of grains, so I don't think I'll have enough volume to do a no sparge method. I have another stock pot that is approximately 3.5 gallons, so that should work for the access water/sparge dunk needed.

Here's the question.

If I want to finish with approximately 4.5 gallons....does this look correct?
4.5 + 1.5 (90 minute boil off) + 1.4 absorption (14*.1) + .25 trub = 7.65 total water needed.
obviously, I can't put 7.65 gallons of water in my 8 gallon kettle and expect 14 lbs of grains to fit, so I need to remove about 2 to 2.5 gallons of water and use it as a sparge dunk.

Does this sound right?

Gave this a go over the weekend and it worked out well except for thing. Dunking 14 lbs of wet grains into my 3.5 gallon sparge dunk kettle full of 2.6 gallons of water caused a lot of water displacement and I ended up with maybe 1 to 1.5 gallons of dunk water to add back in. Still, I came close to hitting my numbers and it appears to be one of my best batches to date based on initial numbers/tastings. Thanks for all the help!

 

[Mysticmead]

another option would be pouring the additional (sparge) water through the grain bag if suspended over the kettle on an oven rack or in a colander. Orrrrrrrrrr... get a keggle for a brew pot... you know you want one... you really do need it.. just think of all the 10 gallon beers you can make!! (my friends wife hates me because I suggested this exact thing to her husband)

 

[obrion]

another option would be pouring the additional (sparge) water through the grain bag if suspended over the kettle on an oven rack or in a colander. Orrrrrrrrrr... get a keggle for a brew pot... you know you want one... you really do need it.. just think of all the 10 gallon beers you can make!! (my friends wife hates me because I suggested this exact thing to her husband)

I would think that doing a 10 gallon batch would take at least a 20 gallon pot unless you are doing some very low gravity beers

This is my battle right now. I want to do BIAB no sparge and i am in the market for a larger pot. I fear that a keggle is too small for 10 gallon batches and a 20 gallon pot is just too big for a 5 gallon batch. grrrrrr.