Better bottle - air permeable?

[rpatton]

Hi,
I did a search but didn't come up with anything that struck me as related to this, sorry in advance if this has been answered before.

I just picked up a 5 gal BB from my LHBS to use as a secondary, and the guy at the counter said to be careful because the BB is air permeable. He seemed pretty sure of it after talking a bit. Any comments on that? If it is true, is it enough to be concerned about for fermentation? (say 2-3 weeks, ales mostly).

Thanks,
Rob

 

[rico567]

Did he say how much air? An awful lot of people (like me) use BBs with no ill effects, just like I use my plastic buckets to ferment in (which are also oxygen permeable). Without actual figures (which I don't think you're gonna get) it all just comes down to taste....and my beer tastes just fine.

 

[SteveM]

I don't have one and I'm not a chemist, so take this for what it's worth - but the whole point of the Better Bottle is that it's NOT air permeable. That's why it works as a substutute for a glass carboy.

 

[sm007thie]

I can't speak as an authority on its air permeability. I can say that I've made 8 batches using 6.5 gallon BB for my primary and 5 gal BB for my secondary and they've all turned out delish. Would they have been better if fermented in a glass carboy? Don't know and frankly don't care. I can't imagine them being much better and if the taste is negligible, i'll stick to the absolute convenience of my ported BBs over a glass carboy any day.

 

[bovineblitz]

Supposedly it's somewhat permeable but conventional wisdom says this isn't an issue unless you're bulk aging say, a barleywine for 6 months. In that case I'm not sure if there would be an issue but it seems that anyone who's bulk aging has spent enough on the hobby to at least have one glass fermenter and the ability to avoid that unknown.

 

[rico567]

That would be me, too. In my earlier post, I wasn't including operations like the barleywine I'll throw into secondary for six months in about two weeks. I've got two perfectly good 5 gallon glass carboys, and that's what I use them for. And that's ALL I use them for!

 

[Indian_villager]

Glass does have a considerably lower permeability than PET. But they can sandwich stuff like PVA in between PET to get something that has a lower permeability than regular PET. Even then The glass is thicker than a regular BB so it's lower permeability is further enhanced by this. Besides. That rubber stopper on top still has a higher permeability than both PET and Glass. Just be happy that usually occupies very little surface area for mass transfer.

 

[Revvy]

The guy at the counter is just repeating the old suprestition that has been argued since the first plastic buckets came out. It's the old glass vs plastic debate. It holds no merit.
It's just another old wive's tales. It's no-different than the aluminum vs stainless debates/

Read this from the better bottle website

Introduction
Many hundreds of thousands of BetterBottle's unique PET carboys have been sold since their introduction in July of 2003. Already widely available in the US, Canada, Europe, Australia, and New Zealand and distributed by all the major suppliers of premium wine kits and wholesalers of home winemaking and brewing supplies, BetterBottle carboys are clearly performing extremely well.


Discussion
BetterBottle PET carboys are made of plastic; however, they are not like other plastic carboys. First of all, they are made of a special PETand secondly they are made in a manner that packs the plastic molecules very tightly and creates a delicate balance between microcrystaline and amorphous regions.1 They are especialy well suited for home winemaking and brewing. So, why do rumors that no plastic is acceptable persist here and there? In the first place, many people have experienced failures attempting to use carboys made from types of plastic that are known to be too permeable to oxygen and to scalp flavors (see Flavor Scalping). Secondly, the mistaken belief that all plastics are the same is occasionally reinforced by sporadic reports of failures involving BetterBottle carboys. Making a good wine or beer is an art and results do not always meet expectations, regardless of whether the winemaker or brewer uses a glass carboy or BetterBottle carboy.

Yes, BetterBottle PET carboys are slightly more permeable than glass; however, it would be a mistake to assume that using a glass carboy will guarantee superior results. The traces of oxygen that penetrate BetterBottle PET carboys are incredibly difficult to measure and insignificant when compared with the amounts of oxygen diffusing through, or leaking past, traditional, liquid-filled air locks, traditional rubber stoppers (especially silicone stoppers), and most common types of flexible tubing. Moreover, oxygen diffuses into, and reacts with, wine and beer so quickly that removing a closure from a carboy, even briefly, for testing and making adjustments can allow a relatively large amount of oxygen to enter the small volume. Wine and beer essentially suck up oxygen. And racking from one open carboy to another open carboy with a siphon, a pretty standard approach when glass carboys are used, will add a great deal of oxygen in an uncontrolled manner.

I've had stuff in BB's for 6 months to a year and never had any issues with too much O2 "bleeding" in.

 

[Indian_villager]

Correction on mine. By PVA I meant Polyvinyl Alcohol, not polyvinyl acrylate.