Berry apfelwein question

[HotTrailerBrew]

This is what i did:
5 gal. Apple Juice
2 lbs. Corn Sugar
English Cider Yeast #WLP775
Pitched on 10-12-08 into a 6 gal primary


So as you can see i started a 5 gal batch of Ed's apfelwein but pitched English Cider Yeast #WLP775 on the recommendation of our LHBS. I've waited 5 weeks and went back to buy 2 cans of the Oregon Puree to toss in to the carboy for the berry addition. But when I went back to the LHBS I told him i was making a berry cider and that the base has been sitting for bout 5 weeks and he said "that was way too long, I should have racked to a secondary a long time ago. And I shouldn't have used a 6 gal primary, and you probably have vinegar by now." But he recommended tasting it and if it were still good to rack to a secondary and toss the puree in, and if it hadn't started another fermentation to repitch more yeast.


I thought i was just making another batch of Ed's apfelwein and tossing some puree on it after the normal six weeks were up, let ferment again, and i would have a berry apfelwein. But now after talking to LHBS i dunno.

 

[Nurmey]

Your LHBS is giving you bad advice. Rack your cider on the fruit and all will be well. Vinegar is caused by a bacterial infection, not by sitting on yeast or having a little head room in carboy.

 

[ChshreCat]

I've learned that few outside the hallowed halls of HBT understand Ed's apfelwein. I don't even tell the folks at my LHBS what I'm buying supplies for, let alone ask their advise. They wouldn't understand unless they tasted it.

 

[Tusch]

I'm with Nurmey, all too often LHBS's give bad advice, particularly with non-beer related issues. If you have an open carboy, sanitize then dump your puree in there. Then just rack your brew on to this, it will mix well enough. There will most likely still be some yeast kicking to eat at least some of the berry sugars, again preventing oxidation.

While you can leave it on the lees too long, he over reacted to it being 5 weeks, and the vinegar thing is just stupid. Time on the lees can create certain flavors, but not create vinegar or mold. And headspace (5 gal in a 6 gal carboy) is more an issure of oxidation than anything else. The more surface area exposed, even if there is some co2 in the carboy, the better chances you have of oxidation.

 

[RugenBrau]

Did you ask him why you shouldn't have used a 6 gal carboy or why it would be vinegar in 5 weeks? Rack it off and add the fruit. What kind of berry is it?

 

[HotTrailerBrew]

I decided to put it in the 6 gal to begin with thinking I could just toss in the puree later and not have to worry about racking. Being new to all of this, i didn't think about headspace. Time to reread some more chapters of Palmer's book. Btw-this is kind of fun making mistakes and learning at the same time.

RugenBrau- No, I didn't ask him. But I think he was talking about the head space and oxidation, like Tusch mentioned. And were tossing in a can of blackberry and raspberry. My wife really loves the Berry Cider at BJ's. So were just starting to experiment and see what we can come up with.

 

[HotTrailerBrew]

Thanks for the advice, I'm glad to know I don't have a 5 gal carboy of vinegar.

 

[Tusch]

It would definitely be safer to dump the berry into a carboy, and then rack the cider onto that. If you don't have another carboy, you can do what I did. Just go to home depot or lowes and pickup the largest bucket you can find. Clean and sanitize the bucket, rack the cider into that, clean and sanitize your carboy, add the puree and then rack the cider back into the carboy.

*edit: since you are racking it twice in this way, you have to be particularly careful not to splash it or adding any air into the brew.

 

[homebrewer_99]

Yep, rack it and add the berries.

I wouldn't ask my LHBS for advice for even corn sugar...it's mostly a wine store.

As a matter of fact, they ask me beer brewing questions whenever I go in there.