American IPA Bell's Two Hearted Ale Clone (close as they come)

[dmaher]

Attended a local, Grand Rapids MI, Beerapalooza last night. In attendance was Bell's. I spoke to the Bell's rep about TH recipe and he said to cultivate the yeast from Amber Al or Pale Al. Same yeast and you'll have much better luck. He said because of dry hopping the TH much of the yeast is removed. I didn't quite understand this unless they filter before the dry hop? I then looked at the bottle of Amber Al and sure enough there was a bunch of "nice" sediment floating around. I'll pull a six pack tonight and start the cultivating.

By the way the Simco hopped recipe I made above is ok but not great. Very strong Grapefruit flavor. I guess I can see why I could only find one commercially made Simcoe beer. Probably won't due this one again.

 

[eschatz]

I believe the Widmer Drifter is all Simcoe. It's the best thing I've ever tasted from that brewery.

Thanks for the info on the Amber and Pale Ale. That'll come in useful in the quest!

 

[dmaher]

Well I cultivated the yeast from 3 Bell's Amber Ale and 3 Bell's Pale Ale. Opened the bottles, flamed the tops, collected the last 1/2 oz of beer. Boiled a pint of water with 1/2 cup of LDME, cooled, added to flask, capped with foil, put on a stir plate. Had a bunch of foam within 48 hours. Boiled a quart with 1 cup of LDME added to flask. Now have a significant Krausen. May step up one more time.

Questions: for those who have done this. Have you poured off most of the liquid and just pitched the yeast? I assume I need to use this ASAP and shouldn't refrigerate for the weekend?

 

[LooyvilleLarry]

When I poured from a 2L starter, I did pour off. It does survive as well as any other yeast. I have harvested and both me and one other HBT'r have had success with the 2 generation run.

PING Rick? How did it come out?

 

[pickles]

Here is 10 gal of Two Hearted Clone fellow HBT'er B and I made on sunday. Its a slight variation of this recipe and BYO's. We propogated yeast from several bottles Two Hearted.

 

[eschatz]

Thanks for the pic. If you could drop that beer about 4 degrees from 68F you'd get a cleaner profile (even though 68 is a little high it'll make great beer). I'm sure you're gonna love it either way!

 

[pickles]

is 64-65 a good rule of thumb for an ale yeast that doesn't have a specific ferment temp like wyeast strain (ie the harvested bell's yeast)? Does anyone know of a good resource for such info?

 

[Rick500]

Yeah, 64F, 66F, that range is good.

I have read though, that Bell's actually ferments Two-Hearted at 78F. I find that really warm, but someone who took the brewery tour saw a cheat sheet taped to a wall in the brewery that had all the fermentation temps for their ales. (I think I read that here somewhere.)

 

[LooyvilleLarry]

Having fermented this beer, at 64, I would find it hard to believe that the profile would work at 78. I'd say mine, first shot, was about 80% there. I think that a lower mash will give the mouthfeel boost that I lacked, and a slight adjustment on the hops will get me PDC. Love this beer, most of the house guests drink the APA's , which is fine for me

 

[Rick500]

I used yeast from the same batch that Larry used (I think you used it in your 2HA clone anyway...?), but I was brewing a different IPA... I fermented at about 66F and it turned out very well. I don't know how it would turn out at 78F...but I will say that I'm brewing this one again and I'm going to ferment at the same 66F I did last time.

 

[pickles]

i'll cool it tonight in a waterbath to try to cool it a bit

 

[dmaher]

Here are a couple of pictures of the cultivated yast from Bell's Amber and Pale. I'm headed to the Bell's Bar in Kalamazoo tomorrow. Can't wait. It's always fun to see what specialties they have on tap that don't make it to the public market.

 

[pickles]

pics are not loaded

 

[kgs]

I'm doing this version -- a 3 gallon partial mash, based on evaluating all available recipes here and elsewhere and going for what my 2-gallon mini-mash tun can hold and what sounds good:

1.5 lbs 2-row
1.25 lbs Vienna Malt
.25 lbs Caramel Pils
.25 Crystal 20L
3 lbs LME

Sound about right?

I am making my starter right now (using WLP001). I bought 3 oz of Centennial hops (can freeze any overage). I've tinkered in Beersmith with various schedules. I'm also thinking that since I'm doing a mini-mash I can do a late extract addition.

Any thoughts here on the hops schedule? Something like:

60 .5 oz
45 .5 oz
15 .5 oz
5 .5 oz
0 .5 oz
.25 DH

??? A little more earlier, a little less later?

thanks all. I had TH on tap a month ago and was struck by how different this beer is when it's very fresh -- a real knockout. I want to make sure this as much about aroma and mouth presence as it is sheer "hops."

-- Karen

 

[MeetsCriteria]

Well, the substitution of Victory for the Vienna (required due to Home Brew Mart being out of Vienna at the time) nevertheless resulted in a spectacular beer. Whether it tastes like TH is any one's guess...But it is an amazing IPA, and I'd be apt to keep the recipe the way I brewed this one it's so great!

 

[eschatz]

Well, the substitution of Victory for the Vienna (required due to Home Brew Mart being out of Vienna at the time) nevertheless resulted in a spectacular beer. Whether it tastes like TH is any one's guess...But it is an amazing IPA, and I'd be apt to keep the recipe the way I brewed this one it's so great!

I think that's the general consensus of the thread. If it tastes great why bother. We're getting alot closer to TH but I've started doing variations of this beer just because they always taste great. I'm glad you enjoy it.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

How long of a conditioning time are you guys using on this beer. I brewed a very similar beer based on these recipes and am just waiting for the bitterness and flavors to meld. This is the first IPA I have brewed (I know what have I been doing?) so I don't have a good feel yet.

The aroma is incredible but the flavors just aren't there yet...

 

[k2brew]

I'll second that 2 Hearted is amazing on tap! Recently went to a bar near my house and found out that their rotating cask beer was Bell's 2 Hearted. I about crapped myself I was so excited.

Work was a bit rough the next day.

Totally worth it.

 

[eschatz]

How long of a conditioning time are you guys using on this beer. I brewed a very similar beer based on these recipes and am just waiting for the bitterness and flavors to meld. This is the first IPA I have brewed (I know what have I been doing?) so I don't have a good feel yet.

The aroma is incredible but the flavors just aren't there yet...

For me this beer finds it's peak about a month after it's kegged. I have a hard time really keeping my hands off of it because it is pretty damn good when it's green. But I know what you mean. It takes a little while for the malt to ripen to meet the abrasive hop schedule.

 

[tmoney1224]

Well I entered this beer in the River City Roundup in Omaha and it won second place in the IPA category. Thanks for the original recipe eschatz. These where the changes I made for my brew:

Brewed this on Friday, with the following changes:

Reduced 60min hops to .75 and added the extra .25 at 45 minutes
Mashed at 151-152
I will dry hop with 1oz for 7 days

 

[eschatz]

Well I entered this beer in the River City Roundup in Omaha and it won second place in the IPA category.

WOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

That's awesome. I think the yeast that iv'e been looking for is 051 California Ale V Yeast. Someone suggested that this was the origin of Bell's strain.

 

[-TH-]

For those of you that bottle this, how long does it take to condition? I did a batch following the OP's exact recipe and its been in bottles for 3 weeks so far. I just sampled a couple and I'm getting very strong green apple aroma/taste which leads me to believe it needs more time. Just curious how long it takes for the rest of you...

 

[eschatz]

I take my time and keg my batches after about a month and a half. I usually don't have much patience after that and drink as soon as it's carbed but it hits it's peak about a month after kegging.

 

[bgburdman9]

I am planning on doing a partial mash of this recipe. I just got a new 8 gallon pot so I can finally do a full 5 gallon boil. This is what I was thinking about doing. I did not add the dextrin malt because I was using extract and I thought this might leave enough body/sweetness. Also added a little dextrose to try to counter some unfermentables in the extract.

3.00 lb Light Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 30.00 %
4.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 40.00 %
2.00 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 20.00 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 5.00 %
1.00 oz Centennial [11.50 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -
1.25 oz Centennial [11.50 %] (60 min) Hops 46.2 IBU
1.00 oz Centennial [11.50 %] (15 min) Hops 18.3 IBU
1.00 oz Centennial [11.50 %] (5 min) Hops 7.4 IBU
1.00 oz Centennial [11.50 %] (1 min) Hops 1.6 IBU
0.50 lb Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 5.00 %


Measured Original Gravity: 1.066 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.013 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 6.40 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 6.92 %
Bitterness: 73.5 IBU
Est Color: 7.1 SRM

 

[RichBenn]

I'm thinking about brewing this, but I don't have access to Bell's out here, so I don't have access either try it or culture the yeast.

From a comment someone made, one of my concerns is how dry/thin bodied it is, using 150 mash temp and having a somewhat healthy bittering for the malt. Also, the desired attenuation would seem to be pretty high.

Reading through this thread, I see Nottingham(which I have) and California Ale V (051), and plain California ale 001/US-05(also have) are possibilities. Is Nottingham a little too thin bodied/dry? I assume that means for US-05 as well. California Ale V(051) has attenuation lower than 001/US-05. So it would seem that doesn't get it down anywhere close to 1.010(like Bells yeast), but maybe a little more malty? Is Bells just a very dry, hoppy beer? And is any commercial yeast really at all close to Bells yeast?

 

[mb2696]

eschatz, do you dry hop it before or after keg-conditioning for a month?

 

[pickles]

Wow the version I did turned out awesome! Still needs some time to clear, but the flavor and aroma is outstanding!

 

[eschatz]

eschatz, do you dry hop it before or after keg-conditioning for a month?

I dry hop it in the secondary for 7 days then condition for a month.

 

[Hammy71]

Just moved this to the secondary after 3 weeks..... wow the hydro sample kicked arse... Thanks eschatz....never had the real thing but so far...I can tell this is gonna be a sweet IPA....Cheers!!!

 

[eschatz]

Just moved this to the secondary after 3 weeks..... wow the hydro sample kicked arse... Thanks eschatz....never had the real thing but so far...I can tell this is gonna be a sweet IPA....Cheers!!!

Thanks! It's a great beer. I hope you like it!