Belgian Dubbel

[RIT_Warrior]

Well I'm an idiot.

Do you use amber, or dark? Seems like dark has more of the flavor you would want, but it also seems difficult to stay in SRM.

Also, are all "Belgian" candi syrups the same, or are some better than others? I noticed there are 2 new American companies (snagged a free sample from one but won't get it for a month) as well as the Belgian company that most sites seem to carry.

I used D2, which is the darkest syrup I know about. Supposedly it contributes 160 SRM, but as I said earlier in the thread I don't think that is the case. Brewsmith said I should be getting "Stout" darkness, but to me it looked similar to other Dubbels like Maudite or Chimay Red.

I'm intrigued to hear about this American candi syrup. I've only seen the imported Belgian stuff, which is a bit expensive. Do you have a link? I checked a few sites and couldn't find any.

I'm actually going to try my hand at making my own, though, as there are many tutorials online. Not sure how well it will work, but it should be a fun side project.

 

[jlpred55]

Don't be too hard on yourself, I learn new stuff everyday as well. I am brewing a dubbel on Friday. I am using a little crystal in mine...LOL. Going to use the 160 SRM D2 syrup since I have it, though I am suspecting the 80 SRM D syrup to be more inline with what I want but we will see. Recipe is like this

OG 1.066
SRM 21 (too dark)
IBU 20
11.0 lbs Castle Bel. Pils
1.0 Weyerman Light Munich
1.0 D2 Syrup
.25 Caramunich II, Aromatic, Special B, cane sugar

Any hop to 20 IBU 90 minutes
Mash 149
16 oz prior slurry of WY3787.

 

[DrawTap88]

I'm intrigued to hear about this American candi syrup. I've only seen the imported Belgian stuff, which is a bit expensive. Do you have a link? I checked a few sites and couldn't find any.

I'm actually going to try my hand at making my own, though, as there are many tutorials online. Not sure how well it will work, but it should be a fun side project.

Make sure you have a candi thermometer and some ice water nearby to quickly cool down the darkened syrup. That's one thing I wish I had and one thing I wish I knew the last, and so far only, time I made some candi syrup.

 

[RIT_Warrior]

Don't be too hard on yourself, I learn new stuff everyday as well. I am brewing a dubbel on Friday. I am using a little crystal in mine...LOL. Going to use the 160 SRM D2 syrup since I have it, though I am suspecting the 80 SRM D syrup to be more inline with what I want but we will see. Recipe is like this

OG 1.066
SRM 21 (too dark)
IBU 20
11.0 lbs Castle Bel. Pils
1.0 Weyerman Light Munich
1.0 D2 Syrup
.25 Caramunich II, Aromatic, Special B, cane sugar

Any hop to 20 IBU 90 minutes
Mash 149
16 oz prior slurry of WY3787.

Looks good! I'll be doing a recipe similar to that soon I think. Don't worry about that 21SRM, most of that is from the D2 and as I said before I think that 160SRM is optimistic at best. Mine came out as 23 in beersmith but I think it is more along the lines of 17.

Make sure you have a candi thermometer and some ice water nearby to quickly cool down the darkened syrup. That's one thing I wish I had and one thing I wish I knew the last, and so far only, time I made some candi syrup.

I do have a candy thermometer, so I'll sort of be using that. Actually, after the initial stage I'm going to throw the whole thing in a pre-heated oven and use that to hold it at the correct temperatures. I bought and all-SS sauce pot just for that purpose, as I figured I would make a total mess on the stovetop trying to hold the syrup at the same temperature for a long amount of time.

I know I'm going to screw up the first few batches, but I'm just going to roll with it.

Nice tip about the ice water as well, I'll be sure to have that on hand. I'm a bit worried about the whole thing exploding though and me getting covered in fiery liquid sugar napalm, so I'll actually have a rather large bucket of ice water on hand.

 

[RIT_Warrior]

So I just got back home. I'd been running my window AC to keep the dubbel at a nice 64 degrees F during the day until the krauzen drops. Come home...AC is a block of ice. Dubbel? 78F.

And I hear you can't drop the temperature to try to fix it because the yeasts are Belgian so they unionize and stop working if you do that. So I guess it will be a "banana clove bubble-gum dubbel".

Ah well...never give up on a beer!

 

[DannPM]

So I just got back home. I'd been running my window AC to keep the dubbel at a nice 64 degrees F during the day until the krauzen drops. Come home...AC is a block of ice. Dubbel? 78F.

And I hear you can't drop the temperature to try to fix it because the yeasts are Belgian so they unionize and stop working if you do that. So I guess it will be a "banana clove bubble-gum dubbel".

Ah well...never give up on a beer!

This happened to mine too bro, Belgian Golden Strong. Wife did laundry with hose detached (by accident) and warmed the basement up to 74, beer was at 73-74 when measured, but scheduled to be at only 63-64. Cooled it back down, yeast went dormant. Roused them back up, 7 hours later, they were actively fermenting again. My Hyrdo sample tasted so good I finished it. Finished at the exact same gravity as my prior BGSA batch, 1.011. The spike didn't hurt a thing so hang in there man!

 

[rexbanner]

I used D2, which is the darkest syrup I know about. Supposedly it contributes 160 SRM, but as I said earlier in the thread I don't think that is the case. Brewsmith said I should be getting "Stout" darkness, but to me it looked similar to other Dubbels like Maudite or Chimay Red.

I'm intrigued to hear about this American candi syrup. I've only seen the imported Belgian stuff, which is a bit expensive. Do you have a link? I checked a few sites and couldn't find any.

I'm actually going to try my hand at making my own, though, as there are many tutorials online. Not sure how well it will work, but it should be a fun side project.

www.candisyrup.com. They had a free giveaway for their dark and I happened to stumble upon it.

I feel like this forum could benefit from user-created groups, like some other forums have. That way someone could make a Belgian beers group, where we could all compile info and experience. I initially was very reluctant to try brewing Belgian styles because they take so long to mature and I think it really takes trial and error, i.e. time and money, to get better at brewing certain styles. At least, to make one that you yourself like.

 

[GuldTuborg]

www.candisyrup.com. They had a free giveaway for their dark and I happened to stumble upon it.

Have you tried it out yet? Have they even shipped anything? They don't seem to be at the full retail mode yet, but I'll admit I'm curious to see if their products are good. Someone really ought to clean up that website, though. The grammar is terrible. It doesn't exactly make for a professional image.

 

[Brew_Magus]

Speaking of candi syrup, when should it be added to the wort? I feel like adding it to the boil at the beginning would cause it to lose some/most of its flavor and aroma properties, so I was considering adding it in the last 10-15 minutes. Another possibility is adding it after the boil, during the cooling stage, but I'm worried about it not being sanitized and propagating unwanted microbes.

 

[jlpred55]

Speaking of candi syrup, when should it be added to the wort? I feel like adding it to the boil at the beginning would cause it to lose some/most of its flavor and aroma properties, so I was considering adding it in the last 10-15 minutes. Another possibility is adding it after the boil, during the cooling stage, but I'm worried about it not being sanitized and propagating unwanted microbes.

I'm going to add mine with 10 minutes lift in the boil. I opened it up last night and tasted it. WOW, tons of flavor, kind of tasted like chocolate and carmel mixed with a little dark fruit. Might be a bit overwhelming for a dubbel but I am rolling with it. I can always brew another one with the 80 SRM and do a side by side.

 

[RIT_Warrior]

www.candisyrup.com. They had a free giveaway for their dark and I happened to stumble upon it.

I feel like this forum could benefit from user-created groups, like some other forums have. That way someone could make a Belgian beers group, where we could all compile info and experience. I initially was very reluctant to try brewing Belgian styles because they take so long to mature and I think it really takes trial and error, i.e. time and money, to get better at brewing certain styles. At least, to make one that you yourself like.

That's a good idea, it would be cool to have different groups based around various beer styles. Would make for a nice compendium of information.

I'm going to add mine with 10 minutes lift in the boil. I opened it up last night and tasted it. WOW, tons of flavor, kind of tasted like chocolate and carmel mixed with a little dark fruit. Might be a bit overwhelming for a dubbel but I am rolling with it. I can always brew another one with the 80 SRM and do a side by side.

I added mine with 15 left. Personally I am kind of regretting that at this moment...I kind of wished I had waited on all the sugar and added it at full Krauzen. Basically, I was shooting to have a nice underpitch by just making an activator with no starter...but I see now that I sort of too-much underpitched by doing that. A nice pitch rate would be adding the non-startered 1214 to the recipe sans sugar and adding the sugar to the primary at high krauzen, or whipping up a 1.5 liter starer and add the sugar during the boil.

Speaking of candi syrup, when should it be added to the wort? I feel like adding it to the boil at the beginning would cause it to lose some/most of its flavor and aroma properties, so I was considering adding it in the last 10-15 minutes. Another possibility is adding it after the boil, during the cooling stage, but I'm worried about it not being sanitized and propagating unwanted microbes.

I added mine with 15 minutes left. That was probably unnecessary...an easier way would be to add it after flameout, like you would Malt Extract.

This happened to mine too bro, Belgian Golden Strong. Wife did laundry with hose detached (by accident) and warmed the basement up to 74, beer was at 73-74 when measured, but scheduled to be at only 63-64. Cooled it back down, yeast went dormant. Roused them back up, 7 hours later, they were actively fermenting again. My Hyrdo sample tasted so good I finished it. Finished at the exact same gravity as my prior BGSA batch, 1.011. The spike didn't hurt a thing so hang in there man!

I'm slowely cooling mine down and it is still going strong. It was at 74 when measured....but I'll definitely try stirring them up if they go teamster on me.

I'm not actually too worried about it, I had it pegged at 64 during the growth phase.

 

[jlpred55]

I added mine with 15 left. Personally I am kind of regretting that at this moment...I kind of wished I had waited on all the sugar and added it at full Krauzen. Basically, I was shooting to have a nice underpitch by just making an activator with no starter...but I see now that I sort of too-much underpitched by doing that. A nice pitch rate would be adding the non-startered 1214 to the recipe sans sugar and adding the sugar to the primary at high krauzen, or whipping up a 1.5 liter starer and add the sugar during the boil.


Shouldn't be a issue with mine I am using a large pitch of slurry (16oz)- hell I could even top crop right now off my tripel that is going strong if I wanted to. Now I am thinking of top cropping....geez...LOL

 

[RIT_Warrior]

Shouldn't be a issue with mine I am using a large pitch of slurry (16oz)- hell I could even top crop right now off my tripel that is going strong if I wanted to. Now I am thinking of top cropping....geez...LOL

Can you just repitch a large slurry? I've never done it before, so I wouldn't know. But I thought it was advisable to make a starter with the yeast you got with the slurry instead of just using it as-is.

I'm actually thinking about washing the yeast I use for this guy because, lets face it, 1214 isn't free. And repitching directly is interesting for me, as I am always finding new ways to screw up my brews and avoiding starters when possible is an attractive prospect for me.

 

[Bob]

Yes, you can repitch without washing. Commercial breweries repitch daily.

Cheers,

Bob

 

[RIT_Warrior]

Just put this in bottles. It tastes great! It both looks and tastes like Chimay Red. This is slightly odd, as the recipe is most likely quite different than Chimay's, but I suppose the 1214 yeast contributes so much to the flavor that it really stands out in the final product. FG was around 1.011.

I also tried washing the yeast. Not really sure how well it is going...right now I have a 1L ikea bottle filled with what appears to be chocolate milk. I can't really see any separation...but maybe I'm just blind?

 

[bknifefight]

The separation may be hard to see if there is a lot of gunk in there. 15 - 20 minutes in the fridge should do it. If it is still hard to see a defined line, still dump the top, thinner layer into another container. Do that another time or two and you should have pretty good clean yeast.

 

[RIT_Warrior]

If it is still hard to see a defined line, still dump the top, thinner layer into another container.

I did just that, actually. Although I really should get a larger container for the "big" jar you initially decant into.

I checked it in the fridge today, though, and it looks pretty good. I'm planning on brewing in the next couple of weeks, so I'll make a starter out of one and see how that does. If I get some sediment I'm not too concerned.

 

[bknifefight]

Sounds like a plan!