Basic AG question

[KayaBrew]

Well, I just completed my 10th AG brew with a SMaSH Maris Otter/Amarillo IPA, and I have a question.

We know that higher mash temps. yield more unfermentable sugars resulting in a higher FG and a maltier beer. My question is, when I mash in, I use strike water heated to 175ish in order to get a target temp. of 154. It takes a good 5 minutes or so of stirring the mash to get the temp. down to my target. How does the high temp. effect the conversion in the first 5 to 10 minutes of the mash?

Am I making any sense here?

 

[khiddy]

Your question makes perfect sense. It sounds like you're heating your strike water too high, because you're at risk of denaturing the enzymes if it takes too long (I don't know the scientific answer about how long is too long, but someone will chime in, I'm sure).

Have you considered heating your strike water to more like 165, then taking a temp reading after stirring about a bit, and adding a bit of boiling water to raise to your target temp? That way, you're not immediately destroying the Beta Amylase enzymes, which are denatured above 150, as you do when you use strike water that's too hot (data taken from Palmer's How To Brew, chapter 14).

 

[KayaBrew]

Your question makes perfect sense. It sounds like you're heating your strike water too high, because you're at risk of denaturing the enzymes if it takes too long (I don't know the scientific answer about how long is too long, but someone will chime in, I'm sure).

Have you considered heating your strike water to more like 165, then taking a temp reading after stirring about a bit, and adding a bit of boiling water to raise to your target temp? That way, you're not immediately destroying the Beta Amylase enzymes, which are denatured above 150, as you do when you use strike water that's too hot (data taken from Palmer's How To Brew, chapter 14).

Thanks for the response. I'm heating my strike water according to what BeerTools Pro tells me to. The software must calculate the temps. according to the data I entered to calibrate my tun, and to what my target temp. is set to.

Does anyone else have any input?

 

[cvstrat]

It could be a result of your grain temp being higher than you are reporting in the mash temp calc. It could also be a result of the water increasing in temp between the time you take the measurement and you kill the flame. The energy stored in the kettle is goign to transfer into the water even after the flame is out, until it's equalized to the water temp, which could also bump you up a small amount.

Perhaps something you could do would be to heat your water up to your desired strike temp and turn off the heat. Wait for a few minutes to make sure the temp is stable at your target temp before doughing in. If it goes up a bit, wait for it to cool down. Then you'll be sure your strike water is the right temp. Leave the grain inside until you dough in.

I'm going out on a bit of a limb here, so take this with a grain of salt. In order for enzymes to be denatured, there has to be enzymes. These won't be present until the malt is saturated and rested at mash temps for a period of time. This gives the starches time to convert and enzymes to leech out into the mash. I would argue that in the short time you are stirring you aren't at much of a risk as the process hasn't really started. 10 minutes is pushing it though. If you are taking that long you are way overshooting your temps and have other issues. I'd say keep the stiring to under 5 mins and you'd be good.

 

[Sea]

Is there a chance that Beer tools pro is taking the heat required to preheat your mash tun into it's target #, and you need to let the water sit for a few in the tun before doughing in for it to absorb heat and bring the temp down a bit?

 

[BigEd]

My question is, when I mash in, I use strike water heated to 175ish in order to get a target temp. of 154. It takes a good 5 minutes or so of stirring the mash to get the temp. down to my target. How does the high temp. effect the conversion in the first 5 to 10 minutes of the mash?

Calculations for the process are averaged. Obviously when the 175F strike water hits the first few grains their temperature is pretty warm. At the same time there are other grains which are not receiving as much water and they are at a lower temperature. It all evens out and as long as your grain bed temp hits the target after all the additions and lots of mixing you can mash without anxiety.

 

[Recusit8m]

My system has me pretty much on target...BeerSmith with a 5g IGLOO cylindrical and a single sparge with no mash out and medium body profile...Has me hitting my inital sweet spot of 154 consistantly using a 167F mash in...

 

[kanzimonson]

I'm going out on a bit of a limb here, so take this with a grain of salt. In order for enzymes to be denatured, there has to be enzymes. These won't be present until the malt is saturated and rested at mash temps for a period of time.

The enzymes are definitely present. Sure, they're contained to the grain at the beginning of the mash, but they quickly get into the solution.

Still, you don't have to worry about the 10 minutes your mash is over your target temp - the negative effects will be minimal. However, it'd be nice to work on dialing in your temps with each successive batch. Just bring it down 1* each batch and you'll find the sweet spot for your equipment.

I feel like it really takes people several brews to even begin to understand their all-grain equipment. I don't think I really settled into it until I had done 8 AGs. Now I know exactly what my efficiency will be depending on how much grain I'm mashing.

 

[KayaBrew]

Lots of great info here. Thanks for all the replies. I'm definately going get this even more dialed in now!

 

[Kauai_Kahuna]

I thought I had my equipment figured out after around 4 brews, then at different times in the next 50 I was reminded me I did not know Jack.
I have also wondered about hitting the temp too high and then bringing it down. I really have not noticed a problem and if in doubt I do an iodine test.

 

[Bobby_M]

I'm sure someone said it already but BTP, if you calibrated it to your equipment, is also accounting for the heat the mashtun will steal away. Put your strike water in the MLT first, put the lid down for 5 minutes, then come back and stir the grain in after the vessel took its heat.

 

[VanHolton]

Isn't this also related to mash thickness? I've been mashing at 1.25 qt/lb and have found that I hit my desired temps (152-154) using 168 degree strike water (preheated MLT cooler). I want to try a thinner mash this time (1.75 qt/lb) and I'm concerned that 168 may be too hot. With a grain bill of 16.25 lbs and a strike water volume of 7.1 gallons, how to I figure out how to adjust the strike temp to land me at 152-154?

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[KayaBrew]

I'm sure someone said it already but BTP, if you calibrated it to your equipment, is also accounting for the heat the mashtun will steal away. Put your strike water in the MLT first, put the lid down for 5 minutes, then come back and stir the grain in after the vessel took its heat.

This was one of those "Duh!" moments for me. Duh...dump in the water, wait five minutes, dough in. I thought of that after 4 or five homebrews last night. I DID calibrate my equipment in BTP, I just didn't wait five minutes!