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Ballantine XXX from the 60s

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Ballantine has intrigued me since I started brewing. So sad to think that if they could have held on few a few more years, the styles that they made would becme popular again.
For a high$$$$$$$ you can sometimes find Burton ale for sale. It is long past it's prime, but according to some people I know how have tried some (brewed in 1946/ bottled in 1959) although it had lost it's carbonation it still retained hop flavor and aroma. Can you imagine a beer sitting on oak 10-20 years, even DFH doesn't try to go that big
They loved the beer, not just the money
 
But again BigEd, the OP is looking for XXX NOT the Ipa....But your IPA recipe looks great :mug:

Yes I know. That's why I posted my XXX recipe in reply to the first questioner in this thread. My IPA response is to a later post in the thread in which the IPA was being mentioned. ;) Cheers!
 
Sorry to chime in late to this discussion. I too have been trying to replicate both the XXX and the IPA recipes. I drank a lot of XXX in the late 60s and the 70s, so I have some residual memory of the taste. Unhappily, I have no clue what the IPA was like, never having had one.

My recipe, as you will see, has been vetted by a former employee of the brewery that now owns the Ballantine name and beer. He also developed a replica recipe when he worked for a microbrewery in the Northwest. I have made this six times now, and am still trying to get it right in terms of color and flavors. Also, I want to distill some BG hops to try the hop oil addition, because that is really the signature of this old departed ale.

I was able to track down a gentleman who was brewer for Pabst, the owner of the Ballantine name now. He had access to the recipes for XXX and the IPA. I did not ask him for exact details, since that info is proprietary to Pabst. He was gracious enough to answer two series of questions from me, and to review my first recipe. Here is what he had to say, edited slightly by me to create a summary of his information:

“Between actual knowledge of the product, my perception and all my years of product formulation, here are my hypotheses:

O.G. 11.5-12.0 plato
A.E. 2.3-2.5 plato (I assume A.E. final gravity)
Adjunct ratio 20-30% (corn grits)
Malt would almost have to have been 100% 6 row Eastern seaboard brewery)
No color malt

B.U. would have been much lower than your figures, 20-25 IBU at most, perhaps lower (I had used 40 IBU based on other information). As for hop additions, I used a fair amount of hops at kettle K.O. (for additional aroma) and from which you will not get a lot of isomerization and used enough in the first two additions to get the required B.U.'s

This was a very easy drinking beer. Ballantine used a real ale yeast (as did Narragansett). My guess is that fermentation temperature would have been in the low 60's F followed by 2 weeks in ruh at 32F.

The outstanding feature of this product was the hop aroma which came from hop oil distilled at the brewery. I gleaned this from the head of brewing operations at rival Rheingold.

The regular Ballantine was a light refreshing, easy drinking beer with a very strong hop aroma. The hops used were Brewers Gold. There is only one grower left in the U.S. planting Brewers Gold (for one of the two remaining large Canadian brewers...actually one is Belgian and the other American at this point). These are the hops I used at Portland Brewing.

We did distill our own oil at first but later found a place in the U.K. that extracts the oil with liquid CO2 at 5000 psi, and this method, without heat, produced a much purer, better flavored and aromatic oil. We mixed pellets with water and heated it with an open flame...our excellent engineering staff built a beautiful stainless steel condenser. The oil floated on the top of the distillate and had to be pipetted off. I don't know what Ballantine used for a still.

I grew up in Rhode Island (drank Ballantine for several years from Newark before that brewery closed) and was hoping to latch on to a position at Narragansett (I knew some of the people there) but ended up working for Huber, Anchor, and was brewmaster for Heileman, Miller/Leinenkugel (Milwaukee), Portland, Schell's and Pabst Asia.”

That’s it for the XXX, he had this to say about the Ballantine IPA.

“The beer that was 40-50 IBU was the Ballantine IPA which did not seem to have hop oil and was aged one year in wood. This was a very bitter beer with a noticeable oak character and a slightly vinous/solventy note, quite bitter but with not a lot of hop aroma. This beer was reddish in color and so did contain some color malts.”


So, based on his input, here is my recipe for XXX attempt number 2. Target was 6 gallons in BK at end of boil.

Target OG = 48

8.0 lbs. Six row malt
2.5 lbs. Flaked maize

HOP ADDITION NUMBER 1 NUMBER 2 NUMBER 3
HOP TYPE Perle Brewers Gold Brewers Gold
WEIGHT (GRAMS) 20 18 45
WEIGHT (OUNCES) 0.7 0.53 2.01
% ALPHA ACID 8 7.4 7.4
BOIL TIME (MIN) 60 30 0
IBU CONTRIBUTION 18 8.7 0
TOTAL IBUs 26.7

Single infusion mash temperature 152 F, 60 minutes. Batch sparge, because that's what I do. I used leaf Perle because I need some leaf hops for efficient wort straining through my hop screen, and they seem to give a clean bitterness.
 
I question the above statement about oak flavor. First off, I've read old reviews and have never seen it mentioned. Second, the vats used were, by the end, over 100 years old (meaning any wood flavor would have LOOONG since been leeched) and they had a two-inch thick coating of wax and were rewaxed every couple of years (that comes from another former employee). So I don't see any way there could be any oak flavor.
 
I question the above statement about oak flavor. First off, I've read old reviews and have never seen it mentioned. Second, the vats used were, by the end, over 100 years old (meaning any wood flavor would have LOOONG since been leeched) and they had a two-inch thick coating of wax and were rewaxed every couple of years (that comes from another former employee). So I don't see any way there could be any oak flavor.

Agreed. The current, trendy love affair with oaked beers is, for the most part, based on misinterpretations. Wood was the construction material of choice in many beer vessels up into the early 20th Century but the wood was lined for the most part. Beer to wood contact was deliberately avoided to prevent souring of the beer. Ballantine India Pale Ale produced in the Newark, NJ and Cranston, RI breweries was aged in wooden tanks but having tasted the Newark product and drinking a fair amount of the Rhode Island product I do not recall any "woody" flavor.
 
I have two sources who mention aging the IPA in unlined oak vessels, the brewer I corresponded with (above) and the writer of this article -

The late, great Ballantine | Modern Brewery Age | Find Articles at BNET

I don't claim personal knowledge, having never tasted the IPA, but I do believe these two folks. Glaser, the writer of the article above specifically mentions that at the end of the production of the IPA the brewery switched to lined cyprus tanks, maybe this is the beer you recall.
 
I have two sources who mention aging the IPA in unlined oak vessels, the brewer I corresponded with (above) and the writer of this article -

The late, great Ballantine | Modern Brewery Age | Find Articles at BNET

I don't claim personal knowledge, having never tasted the IPA, but I do believe these two folks. Glaser, the writer of the article above specifically mentions that at the end of the production of the IPA the brewery switched to lined cyprus tanks, maybe this is the beer you recall.


YEAH, You may have noticed above (or not) everything I quoted (and linked to) came from that article. :D
 
I have read that they used hop oil in the original brewing of the XXX Ale. And later on they dry hopped instead. I just brewed up a clone I found in this months BYO.
 
Resurrecting an old thread here - but out of curiosity, has anyone tried this kit? http://www.austinhomebrew.com/product_info.php?products_id=2133. They aren't using Brewer's Gold or Willamette hops in their recipe (both of which were used in Ballantine's XXX, but AHS usually produces some pretty good stuff so I was wondering if this might be the right approach for a first attempt at reproducing the original, or if it would indeed be better to try out one of the recipes mentioned on HBT, including the ones at the start of this thread...

Any thoughts?
 
Resurrecting an old thread here - but out of curiosity, has anyone tried this kit? http://www.austinhomebrew.com/product_info.php?products_id=2133. They aren't using Brewer's Gold or Willamette hops in their recipe (both of which were used in Ballantine's XXX, but AHS usually produces some pretty good stuff so I was wondering if this might be the right approach for a first attempt at reproducing the original, or if it would indeed be better to try out one of the recipes mentioned on HBT, including the ones at the start of this thread...

Any thoughts?

That ahs recipe doesn't make sense. The modern Ballantine is a malt
liquor (at least in this state) with an alcohol content of about 6%. That
recipe is going to give about 4.3% alcohol assuming 75% conversion of
the all grain version. The adjunct can't be fermentable because it's included
in the extract version, and I can't imagine what adjunct you'd need
for a light ale like that unless it's just crystal for some body.

Ray
 
So that was ultimately my question...my interest isn't in making the modern version of Ballentine's - but the formula that existed 50+ years ago. I wasn't around then, so I haven't a clue if their kit remotely resembles what was around then...but I'd presume it wasn't a malt then... My father was around then, but he's not a brewer and so he won't be any help until the beer comes out of the bottles. We could naturally do a lot of trial and error, but I'd like to get as close as possible on the first shot...

Any other thoughts? I want to put an order in today or tomorrow - still not sure if I want to buy the ingredients separately and use one of the recipes from earlier in this thread, use the May BYO recipe, or go for the kit. Any recommendations would be appreciated and I'd be happy to post my father's review of whatever I brew versus his recollection from drinking his favorite beer in the 60's.
 
Smokeater,

Try the recipe I posted earlier it this thread. I've made it 5 or 6 times and believe the resulting beer is pretty close to the '70s XXX, minus the distilled hop oil. If anyone else has a recipe they think is closer than the one I posted, I'd like to see it and brew it.
 
Has anyone tried using any of ECY's Ballantine yeasts yet? I just picked up the lager/beer yeast ECY12. I am thinking about using it for a clone. Supposedly the ECY12 is not a true lager yeast but it should be fermented at lager temps.
 
Quite interested in this beer. Do you know when did Ballantine start to brew XXX? It's a common appelation for a strong mild ale since the 1840s or so. It could be a direct descendent of the mild ales that were brewed back in the 1890s (pale malt, maybe some adjunct or invert sugar, medium to high bitterness, moderate hop flavour, dry hopping). None of these beers really survived in the UK, with the gravities dropping to session strenght during the Great War.
 
Yeah, seen that one. I just want more! Looks a bit like a completely unchanged XX from the turn of the century still being brewed by WW2. Could have been an XXX that dropped a few gravity points by then. A bit of a fossil! ;)
 
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