Bad taste

[KyBeer]

What is the best way to clean silicone hoses that have beer stone in them? A herms coil? SS pump heads?
I know a flush after each brew day prevents build up. I have a three vessel system with three pumps and lots of hoses.
I had the pitch the last two all grain brews and even the last batch that was an extract brew. I've replaced the mash tun, torn the BK down and rebuilt it, found what might be the cause in the sight glass / temp probe fitting.
In my 20 years of brewing on this system this is the first infection I have seen. I always clean and sanatize after and before every brew.
Any thoughts on how I can save my hoses? Hate the thought of replacing 40' of silicone hose! $ !

 

[day_trippr]

Given how horribly stained the silicone wort hoses on my brew rig get (especially after few near-60 SRM stout batches ) I don't think one can ever truly clean silicone hoses. But if I was determined to see how close to "clean" I could get them I'd set up a loop with my BK and a wort pump and see what circulating really hot PBW for a protracted duration does, and follow that with really hot Citric Acid (maybe 10% by weight).

I do the hot PBW recirculation thing to clean the rig itself and it does a really good job of getting the bright stuff clean. Tubing in between, not so much, but the duration is only maybe 20 minutes and the temperature is just 150°F.

Something to do on a rainy day I reckon...

Cheers!

 

[KyBeer]

I have done that, but my PBW wash was at 180 degrees. I use a citric acid wash as well. I have powered acid and mix to get a PH below 2.0. My HLT and BK are both aluminum and the acid wash makes them look new so a boil of water or sanitizer returns the oxidized finish. I think my aluminum kettles give me a more even heat than my SS and no scorching. (Mute point now that I've gone electric!) Used what I had when I made the conversion to electric.
What PH is your citric acid wash?
Thinking of using a weighted fishing line with a small bottle brush and pulling it through the lines. Any thoughts?

 

[day_trippr]

Ok, so even hotter recirculated caustics and acids don't up the cleaning enough. Check.
Mechanical assistance almost always enhances cleaning efforts, so it seems likely pulling something through would help.
Let us know how that goes.

pH is whatever an ~8% by weight citric acid solution might be, I never put my meter to it.

But, tbh, at this point in life I'm willing to throw money at @Bobby_M every couple of years for 20 feet of fresh silicone tubing. I just checked my brewhardware.com orders for 2024, and - yup - there's 20 feet of his finest silicone tubing there

Cheers!

 

[KyBeer]

I have a SS HERMS coil in my HLT. Any suggestions on the best way to clean it? When I recirculate the mash tun sometimes I see brown flakes. Not sure if it is the lines, pump or the coil. In the middle of a major teardown and clean so now would be the time. They don't seem to effect the brew, but would like to not see them.

 

[KyBeer]

Ok, so even hotter recirculated caustics and acids don't up the cleaning enough. Check.
Mechanical assistance almost always enhances cleaning efforts, so it seems likely pulling something through would help.
Let us know how that goes.

pH is whatever an ~8% by weight citric acid solution might be, I never put my meter to it.

But, tbh, at this point in life I'm willing to throw money at @Bobby_M every couple of years for 20 feet of fresh silicone tubing. I just checked my brewhardware.com orders for 2024, and - yup - there's 20 feet of his finest silicone tubing there

Cheers!

If the fishing line and brush don't give me the results I want them Bobby is my next stop.

 

[day_trippr]

I always pull the heads off my venerable March 815pl pumps after I've done a full-rig hot pbw cycle and they are always spotless, but I do it anyway. And I "exercise" all the ball valves during the cleaning cycle to try to scour out the back of the "balls", and they are almost always bright as well.

The herms, otoh, is uninspectable, of course, so I've been going on faith that the cleaning regimen works, and keep an eye out for flakes during the cleaning. The only time I see debris it's from one of the (3) BK dip tubes...

Cheers!

 

[Agent]

For your silicone lines, don't be afraid to try either a 10% bleach solution or a hydrogen peroxide soak.

For whatever reason, PBW seems to be poor at removing staining. My brew bags have been the greatest tattletails to this shortcoming.

 

[Bobby_M]

Persistent infections are much more likely coming from the cold side of the brewery or at least from a hot side hose that doesn't get heat sanitized with boil temp port prior to carrying chilled wort. What kind of chiller do you use and what is your process for sanitizing prior to transfer to the fermenter>?

 

[KyBeer]

The chilled wort is transfered to a glass carboy in a short hose that has been sanitized with Star San as has the carboy. I chill with a copper immersion chiller that is sanitized with a meavy spray of star san and placed in the boil at the 15 minute point.
With all the cleaning I did over look the chiller. The coils are held in place on one side against the feed pipe with ty-wraps. this was a tempory way to stabilize the coils about 20 years ago. Might be time for some #6 grounding wire and some solder. Thanks for the reminder.

 

[Bobby_M]

I would definitely recommend a couple mods. Hook up that drain hose near the end of the boil. Before you turn the cooling water on, drain about a quart or two of wort through the hose and into a pitcher. That gets your drain valve and tubing hot enough to sanitize. If you skip this, there is an area inside the ball valve that cold wort will be exposed to the moment you cycle the valve from closed to open that was not sanitized (and likely gross/dirty).

You can confirm that it was the source of problems by trying a batch where you just siphon the wort out of the kettle with a sanitized autosiphon, bypassing the valve.

 

[hottpeper13]

I do a 20 min at 120* CIP with the ball valves 1/2 open and take them apart once a year. I got the SS auto siphon with the cleaning kit and it comes with a flexible brush for 1/2" tubes. It's long enough to clean my CFC if I go from both ends.
Another tip don't rinse with hot water after the PBW CIP, but use the acid rinse instead, any organic material should lice from the reaction.

 

[KyBeer]

This is what I made to clean my hoses. I used three fishing split weights, a 60 lb. line about two feet longer than my longest hose and a steel leader with a swivel and clip. I purchased a set of small brushes from the Zon and used the 3/4" brush. After soaking the hose in hot PBW I run the brush through the hose several times until it comes out as clean as it goes in.

The only drawback to this process is it requires the fittings to be removed. I did see dark brown mystery build up on the barbs, so maybe a good thing to clean that as well.
I plan to place all the hoses in a loop with the BK, pump and HERMS coil. Then run PBW followed by a boil rinse followed by a Star San wash.

If this still doesn’t get rid of the bacteria I will replace all the hoses.

 

[hottpeper13]

Another tip don't rinse with hot water after the PBW CIP, but use the acid rinse instead, any organic material should lice from the reaction.