Astringency - Not Carbonic Bite

[JeffoC6]

Sounds like a plan. Let us know your results.

And maybe you are getting flavors from the caps even if you pour it out. It's something to try.

Thanks for your help. It's really frustrating that all of the beers I've been making have had this same taste/sourness to them. I even have a Belgian Christmas Ale aging right now that I'm assuming will taste exactly the same way when I open it up come Christmas time

 

[ipsiad]

My beers always taste really nice at bottling.

I sit my bottles at around 70-80 for 3 weeks minimum. When doing a larger beer, I wait 4 weeks until I put one in the fridge.

If the beer tastes great at bottling, then you should probably focus your troubleshooting on post-fermentation processes.

 

[JeffoC6]

One more question for those who have been helping me.

My plan is to do a more "normal" crush rather than a superfine crush that I've been requesting from my LHBS (due to BIAB). With that, I'm hoping to eliminate some of the grain material/particles that may be getting into my wort, and ultimately, boiling, thus causing my tannin/astringency problem.

Would you also agree that maybe after I pull out my grain bag, I should rest it in a colander, ontop of another kettle, and basically pour my wort through the grain bag to filter it? Then, pour it through again, thus, filtering out all of the material/particles that may have gotten into the wort via the mesh bag?

What are your thoughts on this process?

I feel like not mashing out at 170 (and instead mashing out at 160), having a less fine grain crush, and filtering my wort through the grain bag once or twice, should really cut back on potential tannin extraction.

Thoughts?

 

[twistr25]

I don't see why that shouldn't work, leading up to your fermentation aerating it by filtering a couple times shouldn't be an issue. And if you boil afterwards, if something happens to slip in, you should eliminate any infections. Good luck

 

[kwingert]

That should work, just do it really slow.

 

[Stauffbier]

I think your problem is from doing BIAB without vorlaufing. With a fine crush and not filtering the wort, your getting a lot of grain material in your boil. I've done a couple of BIAB's and the reason I stop was because I noticed all the grain material.

The only way this would be true is if the pH is off. IMHO. I do BIAB from time to time, and I get a TON of grain material in my boil. I also do a very fine crush on BIAB and standard AG. My BIAB batches are typically very tasty beers. Never tannic or metallic. Tannin extraction is a direct result of pH issues more than temperature issues. I'd be willing to bet that if the OP learns more about his water and makes pH adjustments his problems will stop. I treat all of my water. I use carbon filtered water diluted with RO and I treat each batch according to style.

Also, to the OP.. There is no need to do a mash out if you don't want. Just pull the bag and fire up your burner for the boil after conversion. While you're waiting for it to come to boiling temp squeeze the bag to get out all of the wort that you can.

 

[JeffoC6]

The only way this would be true is if the pH is off. IMHO. I do BIAB from time to time, and I get a TON of grain material in my boil. I also do a very fine crush on BIAB and standard AG. My BIAB batches are typically very tasty beers. Never tannic or metallic. Tannin extraction is a direct result of pH issues more than temperature issues. I'd be willing to bet that if the OP learns more about his water and makes pH adjustments his problems will stop. I treat all of my water. I use carbon filtered water diluted with RO and I treat each batch according to style.

Also, to the OP.. There is no need to do a mash out if you don't want. Just pull the bag and fire up your burner for the boil after conversion. While you're waiting for it to come to boiling temp squeeze the bag to get out all of the wort that you can.

OP here.
Check out this thread that I started over at the Brew Science forum. I'm thinking it's a pH issue, yes.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/please-help-me-understanding-mash-ph-343955/

 

[Stauffbier]

OP here.
Check out this thread that I started over at the Brew Science forum. I'm thinking it's a pH issue, yes.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/please-help-me-understanding-mash-ph-343955/

Great advice in that thread. I'd bet money if you buy some salts and treat RO according to a calculator like Bru'n Water or EZ Water Calculator that your beer will improve. Especially beers that use a lot of hops. Hop character benefits from the proper mineral content. I know it seems like a lot to learn, and buying a bunch of minerals seems a little too envolved. You won't regret it, though.

Regarding a comment you made in that thread about someone telling you to just use water that tastes good to you... I think that's great advice for extract brewers, but only half true for all grain brewers. Taste is a concern, but proper chemistry is just as important, if not more!

 

[JeffoC6]

Great advice in that thread. I'd bet money if you buy some salts and treat RO according to a calculator like Bru'n Water or EZ Water Calculator that your beer will improve. Especially beers that use a lot of hops. Hop character benefits from the proper mineral content. I know it seems like a lot to learn, and buying a bunch of minerals seems a little too envolved. You won't regret it, though.

Regarding a comment you made in that thread about someone telling you to just use water that tastes good to you... I think that's great advice for extract brewers, but only half true for all grain brewers. Taste is a concern, but proper chemistry is just as important, if not more!

So it sounds like my water is truly the issue, and I should be adjusting it to account for my mash pH. At least I've honed in on the issue. Now, I just need to figure things out from there...A little overwhelmed at this point.

 

[Stauffbier]

I don't know for sure that it is your issue, but a lot of things point to that. It's a good place to start trouble shooting. I was overwhelmed with water chemistry at first, but it really isn't all that hard. Just remember that this forum is your friend.. Good luck!

 

[makomachine]

Been there with that 'bite' and harshness. I'm 99% sure it's water related. Was plagued with the same issue for the first 6 or so all grain batches until I went with Distilled water and used AJ's water primer. Beers are light years better and not a hint of that harshness since.

 

[kwingert]

The only way this would be true is if the pH is off. IMHO. I do BIAB from time to time, and I get a TON of grain material in my boil. I also do a very fine crush on BIAB and standard AG. My BIAB batches are typically very tasty beers. Never tannic or metallic. Tannin extraction is a direct result of pH issues more than temperature issues. I'd be willing to bet that if the OP learns more about his water and makes pH adjustments his problems will stop. I treat all of my water. I use carbon filtered water diluted with RO and I treat each batch according to style.

Also, to the OP.. There is no need to do a mash out if you don't want. Just pull the bag and fire up your burner for the boil after conversion. While you're waiting for it to come to boiling temp squeeze the bag to get out all of the wort that you can.

Your probably right, but I think you still get some tannins from boiling the grains.

 

[JeffoC6]

Your probably right, but I think you still get some tannins from boiling the grains.

I agree. I'm going to "mash out" closer to 160 instead of 170 and I'm going to filter out my wort before my boil AND figure out my water issues moving forward. I think all of those things will help me eliminate the problems I'm having.

 

[makomachine]

For what it's worth, I've had brews with lots of stray grains in them with my Braumeiester and not a hint of astringency. You boil grain in a decoction in some of the least hopped and delicate beers on the planet. It gets down to PH and water in the end.

 

[Stauffbier]

For what it's worth, I've had brews with lots of stray grains in them with my Braumeiester and not a hint of astringency. You boil grain in a decoction in some of the least hopped and delicate beers on the planet. It gets down to PH and water in the end.

^this^

 

[BreezyBrew]

Did changing the water ever fix the taste of the beer?

I also buy spring water, not Poland though, but have the same type of taste occurring in my beer.