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Are u irritated by complex recipes like i am?

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badhabit

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The longer I brew the more I like simple recipes. I will however admitt that I have a few recipies that I developed over a number of years tweeking that have a long and complicated malt bill. The problem is that those few are some of the best beers that I brew. I do have others that are much less complicated that are also in the "best beer" list so who knows. I will say that I have come to believe that the most important element in brewing is not what you put in the beer but how you treat it.
 

mjohnson

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Like most things, “Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away” – Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Smart guy, that Antoine.

Its also helps to remember that many complicated hop bills we see from commercial sources are complicated to mitigate risks of hop shortages. Its hard to make a 100% amarillo IPA when you cant buy amarillo.
 
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germanmade84

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highgravitybacon said:
There's a rich beauty to simple beers. The pinnacle of achievement in my mind is Duvel.
One malt,
Two hop additions. One at 75 min, one at 30 min.
Dextrose.

Now the fermentation is anything but simple, but their inputs are Amazing. Surly Hell is another simple, clean beer.

Nothing wrong with a complex beer at all. But I love a beer that blows you away with its simplicity. Especially when you open one and think "my god how did they do this?" Then to discover its a one sentence recipe.

Sierra Pale Ale is another one. What a fantastic beer with a simple recipe.
Funny you mention this since thats where i saw the real dividing point. That is when i found a recipe for Duvel! I said to myself, "if Duvel is that simple, but turns out so dang good, then why do people go so crazy with complex recipes!" Also for all my IPA's that ive made i always used the Sierra Pale as a base model for my own recipe and the beers are always better than any store bought beer.
 
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germanmade84

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weirdboy said:
I'm sure you make great beer and everything, but you simply aren't going to the right stores if this is the case.
I hear that, but honestly my big thing is unfiltered beer, and nowadays not many beers are unfiltered. I dont think brewerys are helping taste by filtering. Only appearence. Thats too bad, yeast is tasty!
 

Denny

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I hear that, but honestly my big thing is unfiltered beer, and nowadays not many beers are unfiltered. I dont think brewerys are helping taste by filtering. Only appearence. Thats too bad, yeast is tasty!
There are at least as many unfiltered craft beers as filtered. Maybe more.
 

william_shakes_beer

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I keep brewing the same basic recipe over and over. I dropped all the .25 this and that after batch 2. You just don't get any real difference when you add a very small amount of white wheat or whatever. Maybe something, but there are so many variables.

That said, D2 syrup, yeasts, heavy roast malts, high AA hops, Cascade vs Noble hops, etc definitely make a difference and are noticable. Adding some rye was very noticable to mouthfeel and taste.
Depends on the recipie. Guiness stout without that .25 OZ of acid malt just comes up short. And lkkk how little black panent you need to get the proper color.
 

zeg

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I don't really see the need to be irritated by complex recipes. In some cases, sure, it's needless precision. In others, it's quite the opposite. To grab an example from upthread, the 13 pounds 9.2 ounces of malt might indicate an obsession with precision. However, it could just as well be someone who knows he's going to read that recipe later and round it to 13.5 pounds and hasn't bothered to clean it up in his software.
 

DonMagee

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Some of my most complex recipes have come from tweaking a basic recipe (or even a smash).

Start off with a nice simple smash pale ale and think, this would be good if it was a bit darker in color and a tad more carmel, so I add carmel. Now we have a standard pale ale, then I think, man the head retension on this still sucks, so I add some other malt. Then I think, I really wish it was darker in color or more roasty, etc. Soon I have 4-5 malts or multiple hops,etc.

It can get out of control, but it can also brew some good beer.
 

Leadgolem

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Some of my most complex recipes have come from tweaking a basic recipe (or even a smash).

Start off with a nice simple smash pale ale and think, this would be good if it was a bit darker in color and a tad more carmel, so I add carmel. Now we have a standard pale ale, then I think, man the head retension on this still sucks, so I add some other malt. Then I think, I really wish it was darker in color or more roasty, etc. Soon I have 4-5 malts or multiple hops,etc.

It can get out of control, but it can also brew some good beer.
I don't think anyone really has a problem with that. Each addition has some specific reason behind it. What annoys most people is the horribly complex recipe that has been created by someone who simply like to tinker with their brewing software.

That reminds me of a car I was looking at once. The manufacturer had gone so far as to replace the leather around the stick so as to save 2 oz in weight...... I walked away after hearing that, I'm just not interested in something that fussy.
 

emjay

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Leadgolem said:
I don't think anyone really has a problem with that. Each addition has some specific reason behind it. What annoys most people is the horribly complex recipe that has been created by someone who simply like to tinker with their brewing software.
Meh. The only thing that really irritates me is the *mass* of people posting recipes before they've even ever brewed them. I'm more than capable of putting together my own recipes, but it makes it a bit difficult for anyone to find solid recipes, or for people to have their *actually* tried-and-true recipes noticed. It's most irritating when people post their CLONE recipes without ever having even brewed them... they don't even know if it'll actually turn out anything like the commercial beer they're trying to clone. It's a common practice, but it just blows me away...
 

Seedly

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Yeah thats what i mean, if beer had to be so detailed it would not have lasted all these years and become so prevalent. I only use at most 2 hops and 2 malts in any batch because i feel when u go beyond that u start to create a science project, not beer.
url[=http://www.instructables.com/id/Brewing-Beer-With-Science/]
[/url]
(not mine, but hilariously relevant for the image alone)

That said, there was a poll on here asking if HBTers were engineers or non-engineers. 40% of our population self-reported as engineers. That alone should tell you why they are being so maddeningly precise! If you read through the comments, youll notice that there is a large majority of HBT that is in scientific, but non-engineering, fields.

All that said, beer is kinda like a science project when you think about it...a rather tasty science project. A heaping helping of Chemistry, some O-Chem, and a side of Biology...yep, seems like science to me!
 

jerrodm

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url[=http://www.instructables.com/id/Brewing-Beer-With-Science/]
[/url]
(not mine, but hilariously relevant for the image alone)

That said, there was a poll on here asking if HBTers were engineers or non-engineers. 40% of our population self-reported as engineers. That alone should tell you why they are being so maddeningly precise! If you read through the comments, youll notice that there is a large majority of HBT that is in scientific, but non-engineering, fields.

All that said, beer is kinda like a science project when you think about it...a rather tasty science project. A heaping helping of Chemistry, some O-Chem, and a side of Biology...yep, seems like science to me!
This is true, and one of the big reasons that it appeals to me. I love the sciency aspects of it. Honestly, I wouldn't even be that bummed out if my beer was mediocre (which, occasionally, it is)--the fact that I get pretty damn good beer from what's essentially a big science experiment has always been a source of endless amusement to me!
 
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germanmade84

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I do love the science behind it i have to admit, especially the yeast aspect.
 

GrogNerd

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magic little beasties turning sweet water into alcohol

what's not to love?

I like the science part, but the scientist in me loves the art/craft part of it; balancing the left & right sides of the brain, like hop bitterness balancing malty sweetness.
 

homebrewdad

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Meh. The only thing that really irritates me is the *mass* of people posting recipes before they've even ever brewed them. I'm more than capable of putting together my own recipes, but it makes it a bit difficult for anyone to find solid recipes, or for people to have their *actually* tried-and-true recipes noticed. It's most irritating when people post their CLONE recipes without ever having even brewed them... they don't even know if it'll actually turn out anything like the commercial beer they're trying to clone. It's a common practice, but it just blows me away...
This is the only recipe aspect that annoys me. If somebody wants to use multiple grain, multiple hops... why exactly is that bad, if the beer is good?

But yeah, it's a major pain to try to find a good recipe of a given style - especially if you are trying to do a clone - since you have to sift through so many untested postings.
 

FuzzeWuzze

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I forgot what IPA it was i was looking at..its a clone of one of the really good ones...

That does continuous hopping throughout the entire boil pretty much...havent done it yet but it seems like a ton of work slowly pouring hops in every minute lol.
 

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I forgot what IPA it was i was looking at..its a clone of one of the really good ones...

That does continuous hopping throughout the entire boil pretty much...havent done it yet but it seems like a ton of work slowly pouring hops in every minute lol.
My DFH 60 clone uses continuous hopping. It's not any work at all to add a pellet or two every couple of minutes, or a few more than that, or adding some whole hops every once in a few minutes. I"m not doing anything during the boil anyway for the most part. It's not like I measured them out and am adding .015 of an ounce or anything- just tossing them in willy nilly until the timer hits 0.
 

techbrewie

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Yep, you can make amazing beers with a very simple recipe. It's like baking. Know how many amazing things you can make with flour, eggs, and sugar?
This is half right. How different is cheesecake from brownies, cake, pancakes, bread, etc. The details are the whole point. Take a cookie for example. Peanut butter and chocolate chip are Not the same. lol.

I dont think the OP was saying so much that the beers are getting to complex in types or numbers of ingredients but rather the obscure and sometimes negligable amounts and addition times of ingredients.

To follow suit with the analogy I think the OP is saying that specifying 1 1/16 cups of chocolate chips in a cookie recipe or adding 1/8 cup of sugar to cheesecake because it will change the flavor when in reality an addition that small will be hardly if at all noticeable. I can relate with the sentiment. Is it un necessary yes. am I going to start a movement against it? no.
 

signpost

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My DFH 60 clone uses continuous hopping. It's not any work at all to add a pellet or two every couple of minutes, or a few more than that, or adding some whole hops every once in a few minutes. I"m not doing anything during the boil anyway for the most part. It's not like I measured them out and am adding .015 of an ounce or anything- just tossing them in willy nilly until the timer hits 0.
Agreed, 100%! I don't understand why people thinking adding hops at more than 2 different times in the boil is difficult. What are people doing during their boils that makes it so hard? Wrestling gators? Pruning bonzai plants? Monitoring nuclear reactors?

When I'm brewing, the most I might do during a boil is refill my glass of beer or maybe have a conversation with the people hanging around watching/helping me brew. The more there is to do, the more entertaining it is for others, and the more fun the brew day is for everybody.
 

emjay

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signpost said:
What are people doing during their boils that makes it so hard? Wrestling gators? Pruning bonzai plants? Monitoring nuclear reactors?
Starting to clean :D
 
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germanmade84

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signpost said:
Agreed, 100%! I don't understand why people thinking adding hops at more than 2 different times in the boil is difficult. What are people doing during their boils that makes it so hard? Wrestling gators? Pruning bonzai plants? Monitoring nuclear reactors?

When I'm brewing, the most I might do during a boil is refill my glass of beer or maybe have a conversation with the people hanging around watching/helping me brew. The more there is to do, the more entertaining it is for others, and the more fun the brew day is for everybody.
Thats hilarious
 

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Agreed, 100%! I don't understand why people thinking adding hops at more than 2 different times in the boil is difficult. What are people doing during their boils that makes it so hard? Wrestling gators? Pruning bonzai plants? Monitoring nuclear reactors?
Don't be ridiculous. This is a serious topic.

I do NOT wrestle alligators, nor do I prune bonzai plants. I live in the Northwoods. I'm more likely smacking mosquitos and pickling cucumbers in the summer, and wearing a Stormy Kromer and choppers in the winter (go ahead and google that. I'll wait).

But the nuclear reactors? yeah, you found me out. I'm the Northwoods Nuclear Reactor Monitor in my area. And nuclear reactors are serious business. Almost as serious as making homebrew in my laundry room on a Saturday.

*(yes! Tomorrow is brewday in the Yooper laundry room!)

Tomorrow's recipe probably won't pass the simplicity test, though. I'm using two kinds of crystal malt (40L and 120L), a couple of ounces of chocolate malt for color, and both US 2-row and Munich malt. Worse, two kinds of hops- with the majority of them late in the boil (it's a hopped up American red).

It's a good thing I love my beer, because others might think it sucks since it has that much going on. :p
 
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germanmade84

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I have to ammend things, i have a great feeling about skilled recipe design my issue was simply (pun) the recipes that get down to minut numbers and measurements when it obvioius that a rounding could take place with no depreciable change occuring...!
 

Yooper

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I have to ammend things, i have a great feeling about skilled recipe design my issue was simply (pun) the recipes that get down to minut numbers and measurements when it obvioius that a rounding could take place with no depreciable change occuring...!
Hahaha. You made me laugh, and I thank you for that.

Ok, you're allowed to come to the Yooper brewday (in June or July) and drink my beer and brew with me. You can be in charge of the gram scale, and weight everything to the nearest .1 gram, please! :p
 

highgravitybacon

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Agreed, 100%! I don't understand why people thinking adding hops at more than 2 different times in the boil is difficult. What are people doing during their boils that makes it so hard? Wrestling gators? Pruning bonzai plants? Monitoring nuclear reactors?

When I'm brewing, the most I might do during a boil is refill my glass of beer or maybe have a conversation with the people hanging around watching/helping me brew. The more there is to do, the more entertaining it is for others, and the more fun the brew day is for everybody.
I find that the boil time is best spent developing new vaccines and working on new animal husbandry techniques for third world countries.
 

MikeyLXT

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Everyone enjoys the hobby in their own way. As Booby Brown would say....

 
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