He said bung hole
Are the All Stainless Elements Worth It?
- Thread starter Scut_Monkey
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Scut_Monkey
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I have never seen a brass element base before, interesting. It's kind of strange that the eBay seller just asks you to tell them what wattage you want after you purchase. What if they don't have what you want? Pretty good price though. Unfortunately the big detractor is although it won't rust you can't use pbw/oxiclean with brass which is what I and many others use for brewsystems. Also, his listing says its 1.25" threads and not 1". What's up with that?
I'm waiting for my regular 5500w camcorder ripple element to arrive. I plan to coat it with silicone and if it rusts use it as a backup element.
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Scut_Monkey
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I sent the seller on eBay a message addressing some of these questions as I think it would be a good choice for a good portion of people.
I fully expected the threads to be wrong for my kettle, but was pleasantly surprised that they are standard sized.
Also, it's tiny... only about 8" long. It is definitely not a LWD element, but I'm not using it in a RIMS either.
Also, it's tiny... only about 8" long. It is definitely not a LWD element, but I'm not using it in a RIMS either.
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Scut_Monkey
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Do you happen to know if the eBay seller offers a 5500watt version? I think this would be a good option for a HLT/HERMS coil setup which is where I need a replacement. I say that because you really don't have to clean a HLT tank with PBW/Oxiclean and scorching is not an issue when all you are heating is water in the HLT.
![Craft A Brew - Safale S-04 Dry Yeast - Fermentis - English Ale Dry Yeast - For English and American Ales and Hard Apple Ciders - Ingredients for Home Brewing - Beer Making Supplies - [1 Pack]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41fVGNh6JfL._SL500_.jpg)
I doubt the $11.00 elements at LOWES are stainless, they are probably nickel or chrome plated.
Why not go with the 6000 watt?
You are correct I just looked it up. Also, the sticker at the store said 5500W, but I look it up online and it says 4500W in the title, and 3500W in the details, very confusing.
Utilitech Water Heater Element 4500W Screw
Constructed of zinc-plated copper
3500-watts and 240-volts
http://www.lowes.com/pd_362344-135-...44&UserSearch=362344&productId=3693204&rpp=32
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
they require heavier wiring and draw more power... for 10 gallon batches 5500 is plenty... hell I use 4500w and they are plenty fast enough.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
I use this stuff to undercoat cars Ive restored and its nasty stuff... it says right on the can that contents are harmful or fatal if swallowed... and the solvents can cause brain damage...( most of the solvents are expelled through curing process). still not something I would use to coat anything that comes in contact with food or beverage... especially at 212 degrees
You can use the same wire for 5500w and 6000w elements. 240v X 30A = 7200w. A 95% load would be 6800w give or take.
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Scut_Monkey
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Which type of element and coating do you mean?
I'm probably
but I found the thread so it might be best if I post and ask there. I was just curious if it was really beneficial to remove the zinc coating on the element so it's bare copper. Might be less rusting but the main rust issue seems to come from the threads anyways...The thread itself talks about using citric acid to strip the zinc off the element.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/removing-zinc-plating-water-heater-element-163304/
Zinc doesn't rust.
It's a nasty metal that will slowly dissolve in acidic solutions (beer).
It's also the coating on most element bases, so while it might be good to remove it from the element, removing it from the base leaves raw steel, which will rust, thus the topic of this entire thread.
FYI, when the packaging says "stainless", it doesn't necessarily mean stainless steel. It usually means incoloy or nickel coated copper, and refers only to the element and not the base (unless it specifically says so).
There are ss element / ss base combos out there, but the info on them is slim, and unless you're holding one in your hand... with a magnet to check, you probably will never know.
It's a nasty metal that will slowly dissolve in acidic solutions (beer).
It's also the coating on most element bases, so while it might be good to remove it from the element, removing it from the base leaves raw steel, which will rust, thus the topic of this entire thread.
FYI, when the packaging says "stainless", it doesn't necessarily mean stainless steel. It usually means incoloy or nickel coated copper, and refers only to the element and not the base (unless it specifically says so).
There are ss element / ss base combos out there, but the info on them is slim, and unless you're holding one in your hand... with a magnet to check, you probably will never know.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
yes you completely right...I was thinking about my 4500w elements which only draw 18 amps... I used 10 guage anyway incase I ended up with a 5500 watt element at some point but theres really no need. plus I'd have to upgrade my 25a ssr since I have a 40a and 25a one in my panel currently.
renthispace
Well-Known Member
Why can't you use pbw/oxyclean with brass? I've found nothing that states this is a problem. Can you point me to your source?
I would imagine if it was a problem, Palmer would have mentioned it: http://www.howtobrew.com/appendices/appendixB.html
renthispace
Well-Known Member
And my interest in this thread is due to my camco 5500 straight element rusting. From my experience, magnesium anodes prevent rusting when the kettle is full of water. What they don't protect is against rust when the kettle has just been drained. I ended up getting rust on my element threads due to the water drops that remained in contact with the base (the water was no longer electrically connecting the element base with the anode).
Also, during my leak tests with the anode installed I could see many small bubbles coming directly from the anode. Once I drained the kettle, I found a film/deposit on the kettle wall near the anode. What are the bubbles, what is the film? Throw in the fact that I still got rust on my element face the next day and you can see why I threw out the anode.
Once I took the anode out, I did another leak test (overnight) to find the element face had rusted further while submerged (this did not happen with the anode--the bubbles and resulting film are evidence that the anode was protecting the element when the kettle was full).
I could go the silicone route to try and prevent rusting, but I don't want that in my beer either!
Ultimately, I cleaned the rust off and will be brewing a batch tonight. I will not be leaving my kettle full of water anymore (only did it during the leak check) and I will dry the element threads when I'm done brewing. I've read that most people have issues with rusting in their hlt (I'm doing BIAB-ish setup) so hopefully I won't have the environment that leads to rusting.
I looked into bremations element but none of their products will work for me (I can't use a ripple element due to how I mount my element) so if I have any more rusting issues I will probably purchase this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electrical-...678?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a30ecff66
I only wish it came in higher wattages but 4000w will be fine for even a 10gal batch. But why not have more power? It just makes the water heat up quicker hence why I went with my 5500 ULWD element even with the fact I will mostly be doing 5 gallon batches. Also the element linked above looks to have more length than the element acidrain purchased...not sure if it is a LWD but it might be close.
Also, during my leak tests with the anode installed I could see many small bubbles coming directly from the anode. Once I drained the kettle, I found a film/deposit on the kettle wall near the anode. What are the bubbles, what is the film? Throw in the fact that I still got rust on my element face the next day and you can see why I threw out the anode.
Once I took the anode out, I did another leak test (overnight) to find the element face had rusted further while submerged (this did not happen with the anode--the bubbles and resulting film are evidence that the anode was protecting the element when the kettle was full).
I could go the silicone route to try and prevent rusting, but I don't want that in my beer either!
Ultimately, I cleaned the rust off and will be brewing a batch tonight. I will not be leaving my kettle full of water anymore (only did it during the leak check) and I will dry the element threads when I'm done brewing. I've read that most people have issues with rusting in their hlt (I'm doing BIAB-ish setup) so hopefully I won't have the environment that leads to rusting.
I looked into bremations element but none of their products will work for me (I can't use a ripple element due to how I mount my element) so if I have any more rusting issues I will probably purchase this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electrical-...678?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a30ecff66
I only wish it came in higher wattages but 4000w will be fine for even a 10gal batch. But why not have more power? It just makes the water heat up quicker hence why I went with my 5500 ULWD element even with the fact I will mostly be doing 5 gallon batches. Also the element linked above looks to have more length than the element acidrain purchased...not sure if it is a LWD but it might be close.
What do you use for your hoses if you're concerned about silicone touching your beer? Once food grade RTV silicone is cured, it's about as inert as it gets for a rubber product.
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Scut_Monkey
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Sorry, I must not have been thinking clearly when I posted that. I guess I was thinking of copper + PBW/Oxiclean = Bad. Yeah brass should be fine and I have a couple pieces of it on my brewstand that get oxiclean contact with no probs.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
Try polishing the base of your element....
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/all-ss-heating-elements-458554/
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/all-ss-heating-elements-458554/
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Scut_Monkey
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Well I finally got my new camco ripple element in last night. It was a big pain trying to get silicone chaulk onto the face of the element with the herms coils in the way. But it's done. Hopefully the rust stays away. I'll try to post a pic if I can get one with the limited visibility.
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Sent from my SCH-I545 using Home Brew mobile app
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Scut_Monkey
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Have you done this? I haven't seen or heard anyone try this.
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augiedoggy
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I do believe this is what brewmation does... I think thier elements are just cameos... 430 stainless rusts when the finish is rough.
So how does polishing help?
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
if you polish 430 grade stainless its theres less pitting and hiding places for contaminants that hold moisture and lead to rusting.... 430 stainless is NOT rustproof... it has way more regular steel than most grades of stainless... the finish is what makes it more rust resistant... the link I quoted explains it better...
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
how do you know they are shiny? have you seen one? are are you just stating a theory here?
The more likely scenerio is regular camco ripple elements are made of 430 stainless. 430 stainless is magnetic and does rust.
Brewmation already claims the ones they sell are 430 grade stainless...I doubt the ripple element they carry is a hot tub element like their straight ones.(which are stainless and cheap if you buy elsewhere BTW).. and I really doubt they have paid to have it specially manufactuered of stainless... But they could be polishing them which makes them much less resistant to rust forming on them.
How do you know? Are you just stating theory here? Man you sound sophisticated.
Are you suggesting that you can buy any element labeled "stainless", and polish the base and make it rust free?
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