Any Idea ?!

[hector]

Hi there !

I'm an Extract brewer and recently tried a small AG-batch for the first time to see how much Efficiency I would get and
also to have a new experience .

I use a Pot as the Mash Tun and put it in a bigger Pot filled with water which works as a water bath and
that lets me control the temperature very well .

Now my main problem is crushing the grains and I'd like to know what would be the disadvantage if I use a
Coffee grinder which pulverizes the grain and the husks .

I should mention that I don't use any Lauter Tun . The wort is drained using a strainer bag and a Colander .

So , after using the coffee grinder there is no need to drain the wort . I will transfer it to Jars and let it sit for half a day or so in
the refrigerator , so that the pulverized husks would come to the bottom of the Jars and make a layer of sediment .

Then I can rack the wort and boil it .

Any Idea about my Approach ?!

Hector

 

[bullinachinashop]

Sounds to me like you'll make an astringent sour beer.

Pulverizing the grains will likely lead to tannins being extrated from the hulls and then without boiling soon after the mash, the lactic acids present will sour the wort.

Look into BIAB with the equipment that you have and get your grains crushed from where ever you buy them.

Bull

 

[hector]

Sounds to me like you'll make an astringent sour beer.

As far as I know , the Tannins will be extracted in an alkaline environment and by temperatures above 170 F .

The Mash is an acidic environment and the temperature is under 160 F .

Besides , last time I kept the strained wort for one day in the refrigerator and nothing wrong happened .

Hector

 

[bigdongsr94]

Hector, it seems that it may work. You want the lactic acid to hold the pH low. It won't pull the tannins out. Be sure to do a fairly thick mash so you pH does drop enough.
Now, could it be done easier? Sure. Just do a BIAB. But you didn't ask that so I will stop right there. Also keep in mind if you do have problems or produce a bitter beer, people will just assume its your technique since its different. You are going to have to prove it works on your own. Anytime I try anything different and ask a question, ten people respond with the "normal" way of doing it.

 

[hector]

Also keep in mind if you do have problems or produce a bitter beer, people will just assume its your technique since its different.

Thanks for your reply .

My main problem is that there is no grain mill available to me and I can not buy online either . Therefore , I use a roller pin and it takes a lot of work and at the end arm pain remains for me .

The only option I have now is the coffee grinder . I thought of the disadvantage ( pulverizing the husks ) at first , but then I asked myself if the approach I described would work .

I thought that it should work because the mash is acidic and I do it by temperatures not higher than 160 F and then there is no need to sparge with some hot water . However , I'll add the calculated volume of sparge water which has room temperature in order to bring the total pre-boil volume to the desired level .

Do you still think it will work ?!

Hector

 

[maida7]

Where do you live? Is there a local homebrew shop? Where do you purchase your malt? Any half decent homebrew shop will have a mill and crush your grain for you. I'm not saying that it's not possible to make beer with a coffee grinder but I think you will have better success with properly milled grain. What do you think?

 

[hector]

Any half decent homebrew shop will have a mill and crush your grain for you.

There is no Homebrew shop where I live . That's why I have to crush the grains by myself .

Hector

 

[edandsue]

www.northernbrewer.com

 

[maida7]

There is no Homebrew shop where I live . That's why I have to crush the grains by myself .

Hector

Where did you purchase the malt?

 

[afr0byte]

As far as I know , the Tannins will be extracted in an alkaline environment and by temperatures above 170 F .

The Mash is an acidic environment and the temperature is under 160 F .

Besides , last time I kept the strained wort for one day in the refrigerator and nothing wrong happened .

Hector

Tannin extraction will start happening in an acid environment. This is why people say to keep the pH below 6 when sparging.

 

[hector]

Where did you purchase the malt?

I purchased the pale malt from a Company that produces malted barley .

They sell malted barley in huge amounts . The smallest pack which I bought was 77 lbs ( 35 Kg ) .

They don't sell crushed grains .

Hector

 

[hector]

Tannin extraction will start happening in an acid environment. This is why people say to keep the pH below 6 when sparging.

Nice to hear that !

My mash pH is 5.3 at room temperature and the sparge water's pH is 7.3 at room temperature .

As I said , I'm not going to warm the sparge water and will add it as it is at room temperature .

Do you still think this would lead to tannin extraction ?!

Hector

 

[afr0byte]

Nice to hear that !

My mash pH is 5.3 at room temperature and the sparge water's pH is 7.3 at room temperature .

As I said , I'm not going to warm the sparge water and will add it as it is at room temperature .

Do you still think this would lead to tannin extraction ?!

Hector

That largely depends on the alkalinity of your water, and also the amount of contact time that the water was with the grain. Ideally your sparge water would have an alkalinity of <= 50 mg/L as CaCO3 or a pH of <= 6. That said, if you're batch sparging, were the water runs through the grains pretty quickly, you may not have an issue (most people don't seem to have much trouble with their sparge pH when batch sparging). If you're continous/fly sparging it may be an issue.

 

[hector]

That largely depends on the alkalinity of your water, and also the amount of contact time that the water was with the grain.

I think sparging would be totally meaningless by me , since the grains are pulverized and the sparge water is at room temperature by

the time of adding it to the mash .

In fact , I'll be just diluting the mash . So , there is no need to worry about tannin extraction .

That's what I'm trying to find out .

Am I right ?!

Hector

 

[tre9er]

Instead of a rolling pin perhaps there is something heavy that could be rolled over a large bag of grain?

You should find a curtain sheer or something similar and just do Brew In A Bag (BIAB), though. Then you will not have to wait additional time for cooling and straining grain. I suppose you could also pour the grist through a fine strainer and you shouldn't have any husks or endosperm in the kettle.

Either way your method sounds time consuming and difficult...more difficult than the suggestions being given. If you can't access a curtain sheer or a strainer any time soon I have to ask if you live on a deserted island that happens to have internet?

 

[maida7]

Any other brewers in your area? Any small breweries? or homebrew clubs? Somebody has to have a mill you can use.

77lbs of grain is gonna kill a coffee grinder in no time.

 

[afr0byte]

I think sparging would be totally meaningless by me , since the grains are pulverized and the sparge water is at room temperature by

the time of adding it to the mash .

In fact , I'll be just diluting the mash . So , there is no need to worry about tannin extraction .

That's what I'm trying to find out .

Am I right ?!

Hector

You can still extract tannins if your pH is high, with the temp below 170.

 

[hector]

Either way your method sounds time consuming and difficult...more difficult than the suggestions being given. If you can't access a curtain sheer or a strainer any time soon I have to ask if you live on a deserted island that happens to have internet?

My problem is "Physical Hand Work" . It also takes a lot of time to crush the grains using a rolling pin .

I'm trying to find a much easier way to crush the grains .

By the way , your last sentence made me laugh loud for a few minutes .

That was the first time I laughed so loud after reading a thread in HBT !

Hector

 

[hector]

77lbs of grain is gonna kill a coffee grinder in no time.

I'm not going to mill them all at once !

Hector

 

[hector]

You can still extract tannins if your pH is high, with the temp below 170.

I read once somewhere that at pH 9 extreme tannin extraction begins .

Do you think that if I dilute my mash ( pH 5.3 ) with sparge water ( pH 7.3 ) , the resulting pH would be above 9 ?!

Hector

 

[afr0byte]

I read once somewhere that at pH 9 extreme tannin extraction begins .

Do you think that if I dilute my mash ( pH 5.3 ) with sparge water ( pH 7.3 ) , the resulting pH would be above 9 ?!

Hector

No your pH couldn't get to 9, since one solution is 5.3 and the other is 7.3, so it'd have to be somewhere in between, however there will still be noticeable tannin extraction at a pH above 6. If you dilute the mash before you drain the wort from the grain there may be enough buffering power to prevent the solution from going above 6, though.

 

[bigdongsr94]

Reading this again still doesn't make sense. You said you use a strainer and a colander. But then you say that there is no need to drain the wort you just transfer to jars and cool in fridge.

I have no experience leaving the husks in the wort and cooling, because it's too easy to just strain the wort off. Leave the husks.

Tannin extraction is at a ph of 6. If you are sparing with cold water then your just rinsing the grains. Of you do not have the tools necessary and are worried about pH I wouldnt sparge and risk tannin
extraction. Just add more grain. Also grains can be ordered already milled. I tried using a rolling pin for a 1/2lb once and never again. That was a horrible idea for me. A few simple tools and you could be doing this in a much easier setup.
Grain bag for BIAB
Milled grains
Bag of ice for cooling
Don't worry about efficiency, who cares. Add a pound or two of grain. That's $3 for me. Also with BIAB a fine ground is not a problem.

 

[hector]

If you dilute the mash before you drain the wort from the grain there may be enough buffering power to prevent the solution from going above 6, though.

You have probably misunderstood what I said .

If I use a coffee grinder , there will be no grains , since they are pulverized .

What I have is starch which is solved above 140 F and pulverized husks .

So , I can not drain the wort even if I want to .

Hector

 

[hector]

Reading this again still doesn't make sense. You said you use a strainer and a colander. But then you say that there is no need to drain the wort you just transfer to jars and cool in fridge.

I use a strainer and a colander when I crush the grains by using a rolling pin .

If I use a coffee grinder , then there is no need to drain the wort , since they are pulverized .

That's what I meant .

Besides , no one sells milled grains where I live .

Hector

 

[mdgagne]

Can you buy a corona mill? They're pretty inexpensive and will give you a decent crush.

 

[shawshank24]

you have internet, but you can't order anything online...

Location: Last Station...



hector lives in space.

 

[hector]

Can you buy a corona mill? They're pretty inexpensive and will give you a decent crush.

I wish I could !

I don't live in the U.S.

"USPS" does not ship such things to my Country .

Hector

 

[afr0byte]

You have probably misunderstood what I said .

If I use a coffee grinder , there will be no grains , since they are pulverized .

What I have is starch which is solved above 140 F and pulverized husks .

So , I can not drain the wort even if I want to .

Hector

You have to separate the husks somehow. I believe some commercial breweries basically do what you're doing, but they then have a press of sorts that squeezes the liquid out from between the fine grain husks.

 

[tre9er]

Even with a coffee grinder you will have particles that can be strained with a fine sieve. This is how a french press works with...coffee. I use an AeroPress for coffee at home and even with a medium-fine grind it strains liquid from grounds.

 

[hector]

You have to separate the husks somehow.

That's why I'm going to pour the wort into Jars and let it sit in the refrigerator for 12 Hours , so that the husks and other things which are not soluble would make a layer of sediment at the bottom of the Jars .

Then I can rack the wort and boil it .

Hector