ANVIL FOUNDRY ALL-GRAIN BREWING SYSTEM

[Bishop9.5]

wilserbrewer BIAB Brew in a Bag

Homebrewing beer with brew in a bag method. BIAB Brewing is full volume mash in a pot.

biabbags.webs.com

Hopefully that link works. I have several of these, I love them. Less $ than the other big site, and while more than Amazon bags they are also better. For me it hits the sweet spot for price / quality. (I've got no affiliation with Wilser just really happy w/ the product).

Are you using the rope ratchet they offer as well? Do you have to hold the release to let the rope back out? Or is it more like a switch? Seems it might be a pain getting the bag back down if you have to hold the release with one hand the whole time.

 

[mbg]

Are you using the rope ratchet they offer as well? Do you have to hold the release to let the rope back out? Or is it more like a switch? Seems it might be a pain getting the bag back down if you have to hold the release with one hand the whole time.

I have three different ratchet/rope type devices around the house. If you hold the release the load will drop until you let go. On the ratchet lift from The Brew Bag a cord is tied to the release latch making it a bit easier to use but you still need to have control of the load to keep it from falling too fast/far. I can't speak for the Wisler ratchet pulley since I don't have one.

 

[Bishop9.5]

This is why I'm thinking an electric winch, good control up and down. For now I've got plenty of ratcheting straps so I'll rig something up until I come up with a more permanent solution.

 

[AzOr]

Apologies if this has already been covered on this thread.

Sometime before summer I'm wanting to brew a really low gravity rye ale, inspired by Basic Brewing's recipe. I may go slightly higher og.
The original recipe calls for;
3lb malted wheat
1lb malted rye

Can I do this with just the included malt pipe (and the collar accessory) and rice hulls? I do not have a biab bag, so ideally my setup would suffice.

 

[cmac62]

Apologies if this has already been covered on this thread.

Sometime before summer I'm wanting to brew a really low gravity rye ale, inspired by Basic Brewing's recipe. I may go slightly higher og.
The original recipe calls for;
3lb malted wheat
1lb malted rye

Can I do this with just the included malt pipe (and the collar accessory) and rice hulls? I do not have a biab bag, so ideally my setup would suffice.

How much water are you going to use during the mash? It is going to be really thin. You may want to add some extra Amylase enzyme during the mash so there is enough in contact with the grain to do the conversion, but other than that it should be okay. Good luck and don't forget to let us know how it goes.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

How much water are you going to use during the mash? It is going to be really thin. You may want to add some extra Amylase enzyme during the mash so there is enough in contact with the grain to do the conversion, but other than that it should be okay. Good luck and don't forget to let us know how it goes.

I can't imagine a need for the addition of extra α-amylase or β-amylase. Some rice hulls are a good idea with rye.

 

[cmac62]

I can't imagine a need for the addition of extra α-amylase or β-amylase. Some rice hulls are a good idea with rye.

I was just thinking with enough water to saturate the grain in the basket it would be a very thin mash (including the outside and under the grain pipe) so it may be helpful to add the enzyme. I don't know if a thin mash is a good thing or bad.

 

[Bishop9.5]

Pretty much a perfect brew day today running my 3rd batch on the 10.5 AF. Volume and gravity readings were all as predicted, pretty happy about that.

Ended up at 75% mash/lauter efficiency with a full volume mash, right on target. Did a 90 minute mash, waited 15 minutes to start recirculation and raked the top of the grain bed every 15 minutes. Mashed out at 168 for 10 minutes and squeezed the hell out of the bag to get my pre-boil volume. I'm planning to pick up a mill in the near future, should be a free 3-5% right there.

For clean up I put about 2.5 gallons in, dumped in some PBW, brought it up to 120 and used the pump to run the mixture over everything. Tiny bit of scrubbing on the kettle and grain basket, otherwise everything rinsed off nice and clean.

I think I'm going to keep it.

I'm considering bumping up my grain absorption slightly and doing a 1 gallon sparge on the next batch. I really had the put some effort into the squeeze. What I'd lose in efficiency by not squeezing quite as hard I should more than make up for with a sparge. We'll see, sounds like more work.

 

[tracer bullet]

We'll see, sounds like more work.

Eh, maybe, maybe not. Maybe reserve a gallon to the side, let it stay at room temp, and then after a gentle squeeze pour the water over the grain then do another gentle squeeze. Hardly any extra effort, maybe less work if you're not squeezing quite so much.

You'd probably have to duplicate the recipe and mash temps / times to really know. Could be interesting.

 

[Bishop9.5]

You'd probably have to duplicate the recipe and mash temps / times to really know. Could be interesting.

If I change it up, add a sparge, and see equal efficiency with less effort on the squeeze I'll call it good. Need to give it a try because I've got some recipes coming up that will have to be sparged just due to the size of the grain bill.

 

[Knightshade]

I brewed a tropical stout last Friday, and I came in a 1.065 vs. an anticipated 1.074. Part of it was perhaps my fault in creating the recipe at 70% efficiency when I maybe should have aimed a little lower due to this one being a stout...idk. First "dark" beer I've made on this thing..actually...only 2nd dark beer ever, but whatever.

I requested that my LHBS not mill the grain, but they did it...again, perhaps my fault. I put DO NOT MILL in the subject line of the email I sent in for the order, not in the body of the email.

I didn't want to re-mill it when I got home, due to their being flaked oats in there...but maybe I should have just done it anyways? 59% brewhouse..and that is with a 1 gallon sparge and squeezing the bag a bit. Didn't want to bother with DME to make up my numbers either..so..I don't know...whatever. S-04 is tearing through it, already 57% attenuated after 3 days

 

[Bishop9.5]

I brewed a tropical stout last Friday, and I came in a 1.065 vs. an anticipated 1.074. Part of it was perhaps my fault in creating the recipe at 70% efficiency when I maybe should have aimed a little lower due to this one being a stout...idk. First "dark" beer I've made on this thing..actually...only 2nd dark beer ever, but whatever.

I requested that my LHBS not mill the grain, but they did it...again, perhaps my fault. I put DO NOT MILL in the subject line of the email I sent in for the order, not in the body of the email.

I didn't want to re-mill it when I got home, due to their being flaked oats in there...but maybe I should have just done it anyways? 59% brewhouse..and that is with a 1 gallon sparge and squeezing the bag a bit. Didn't want to bother with DME to make up my numbers either..so..I don't know...whatever. S-04 is tearing through it, already 57% attenuated after 3 days

Beer style shouldn't necessarily impact mash efficiency, but I can promise you that crush did. You'll make beer, and it'll likely still be tasty. There's no harm in re-milling the grains should that happen again in the future, especially if you're targeting a tighter mill gap than what the LHBS is likely to provide. Since I'm using a bag I'd really prefer a good crush, but the best I can get from my LHBS is a double mill as they won't adjust it. I remember my numbers skyrocketing when I bought a mill with my last setup, everything I've read says it's the golden ticket with these all in one systems.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

I'm considering bumping up my grain absorption slightly and doing a 1 gallon sparge on the next batch. I really had the put some effort into the squeeze. What I'd lose in efficiency by not squeezing quite as hard I should more than make up for with a sparge. We'll see, sounds like more work.

I agree with you in that I do not enjoy battling with the bag in order to get the pre-boil volume. I never minded a simple squeeze, but I was taking too much time battling when I started. So upping the grain absorption is a good choice I think. FWIW, I always calculate my grain absorption on my brew days and always seem to end up with less volume absorbed by the grains than what beersmith tells me my grain absorption should be. So even though my calcs don't match beersmiths, I still know how to adjust to get what I want. With sparging, Ive done it before and after squeezing. From my experience, I sparge after I lift the bag and malt-pipe together and rest it on top of the kettle. If you press the grains in the malt-pipe and bag, it only compacts it and then sparging afterwards doesn't get good flow. Ive done it both ways and like sparging first, then remove the bag from malt-pipe and let it hang while I squeeze just enough to get my pre-boil volume.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Beer style shouldn't necessarily impact mash efficiency, but I can promise you that crush did. You'll make beer, and it'll likely still be tasty. There's no harm in re-milling the grains should that happen again in the future, especially if you're targeting a tighter mill gap than what the LHBS is likely to provide. Since I'm using a bag I'd really prefer a good crush, but the best I can get from my LHBS is a double mill as they won't adjust it. I remember my numbers skyrocketing when I bought a mill with my last setup, everything I've read says it's the golden ticket with these all in one systems.

Agree that crush is #1 in terms of mash/lauter efficiency. Ive been VERY happy with my cereal killer mill and through experimentation, Ive locked it at 0.030" (feeler gauge verified) for everything now. Ive experimented from 0.036" to 0.026" with the bag and like 0.030" the best. great conversion and its tight enough to get great crushes on malted oats and white wheat. Beer style matters to me only when considering beers high in wheat/oats though. I do a good bit of NEIPAs that have ~30% wheat/oats so the grain bills are pretty sticky.

 

[mbg]

I agree with you in that I do not enjoy battling with the bag in order to get the pre-boil volume. I never minded a simple squeeze, but I was taking too much time battling when I started. So upping the grain absorption is a good choice I think. FWIW, I always calculate my grain absorption on my brew days and always seem to end up with less volume absorbed by the grains than what beersmith tells me my grain absorption should be. So even though my calcs don't match beersmiths, I still know how to adjust to get what I want. With sparging, Ive done it before and after squeezing. From my experience, I sparge after I lift the bag and malt-pipe together and rest it on top of the kettle. If you press the grains in the malt-pipe and bag, it only compacts it and then sparging afterwards doesn't get good flow. Ive done it both ways and like sparging first, then remove the bag from malt-pipe and let it hang while I squeeze just enough to get my pre-boil volume.

How do you measure grain absorption? I tried with a digital "fish" type scale but then thought the grain looses some mass to the wort - but maybe that's minimal?

As a side note: I leave the lid on during mash but I saw BEER-N-BBQ Larry found there is evaporation at mash temperatures - more significant if you are making larger batches.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

How do you measure grain absorption? I tried with a digital "fish" type scale but then thought the grain looses some mass to the wort - but maybe that's minimal?

As a side note: I leave the lid on during mash but I saw BEER-N-BBQ Larry found there is evaporation at mash temperatures - more significant if you are making larger batches.

So heres what I do, so if you notice something thats off, I'm all ears. After Im done with the bag that is hanging over the kettle, I remove from hoist and immediately put into a bucket and weigh it on a digital bathroom scale. Ive put known weights on it before and it appears accurately calibrated. I then subtract the weight of the bucket and the grains which leaves me with liquid/wort. I do neglect the weight of my wilser bag in this. For example: yesterday I brewed and the bucket+grain bag weighed 20.2lbs and after subtracting the weight of the bucket when empty and grains (based on the original dry weight of grains), I was left with 5.82lbs. I then converted this to gallons by dividing by 8.35lbs/gallon and I got ~0.70gallons of wort leftover in the bag. Beersmith told me it would be 1.26gallons (my grain absorb is set at 0.70floz/oz in beersmith. So thats a 0.56gallon difference and I am VERY confident that I didn't squeeze over a half of a gallon from that bag yesterday. While I didn't measure it, I am certain is was under a quart. I gave one good squeeze until I reached my pre-boil volume. Then to get the absorption rate, I converted 0.70gallons to 89.6fl oz and converted my grain weight to ounces of grain which was 230.08 oz of grain. Then 89.6 / 230.08 = 0.389. So this is always lower when I calculate it myself. So Ive come to the conclusions that beersmith probably doesn't account bag squeezing in grain absorption regardless if you are using the "grain absorption" or "BIAB Grain absorption" options. But squeezing doesn't account for all of these discrepancies.

I hadn't considered your comments about evaporation during mash or the fact that grain mass might decrease, but I wouldn't even know where to begin with those computations lol.

 

[Knightshade]

Beer style shouldn't necessarily impact mash efficiency, but I can promise you that crush did. You'll make beer, and it'll likely still be tasty. There's no harm in re-milling the grains should that happen again in the future, especially if you're targeting a tighter mill gap than what the LHBS is likely to provide. Since I'm using a bag I'd really prefer a good crush, but the best I can get from my LHBS is a double mill as they won't adjust it. I remember my numbers skyrocketing when I bought a mill with my last setup, everything I've read says it's the golden ticket with these all in one systems.

Yeah..I think I was worried that milling the grains again (which I've done before when they've milled despite me asking them NOT to) would mess something up due to their being flaked oats in there. Happens again...I'm milling it.

But yeah..the reason why I was kinda 'whatever' was because I figured it will still beer. Just rolling with it..not stressing...this is a hobby that keeps my mind off of all the BS out there in the world, which includes work.

 

[mbg]

So heres what I do, so if you notice something thats off, I'm all ears. After Im done with the bag that is hanging over the kettle, I remove from hoist and immediately put into a bucket and weigh it on a digital bathroom scale. Ive put known weights on it before and it appears accurately calibrated. I then subtract the weight of the bucket and the grains which leaves me with liquid/wort. I do neglect the weight of my wilser bag in this. For example: yesterday I brewed and the bucket+grain bag weighed 20.2lbs and after subtracting the weight of the bucket when empty and grains (based on the original dry weight of grains), I was left with 5.82lbs. I then converted this to gallons by dividing by 8.35lbs/gallon and I got ~0.70gallons of wort leftover in the bag. Beersmith told me it would be 1.26gallons (my grain absorb is set at 0.70floz/oz in beersmith. So thats a 0.56gallon difference and I am VERY confident that I didn't squeeze over a half of a gallon from that bag yesterday. While I didn't measure it, I am certain is was under a quart. I gave one good squeeze until I reached my pre-boil volume. Then to get the absorption rate, I converted 0.70gallons to 89.6fl oz and converted my grain weight to ounces of grain which was 230.08 oz of grain. Then 89.6 / 230.08 = 0.389. So this is always lower when I calculate it myself. So Ive come to the conclusions that beersmith probably doesn't account bag squeezing in grain absorption regardless if you are using the "grain absorption" or "BIAB Grain absorption" options. But squeezing doesn't account for all of these discrepancies.

I hadn't considered your comments about evaporation during mash or the fact that grain mass might decrease, but I wouldn't even know where to begin with those computations lol.

I know it's not exact since specific gravity and density aren't exactly the same but the solids lost from the grain is probably reflected in your gravity reading.

 

[Nate R]

Do people mill flaked oats/ flaked wheat/ flaked corn? I was under the impreasion that these shoild not be milled

 

[Knightshade]

Do people mill flaked oats/ flaked wheat/ flaked corn? I was under the impreasion that these shoild not be milled

I was under this impression as well, which is why I didn't in my most previous batch. But if I had..maybe my numbers wouldn't have been so darn far off...but I might have introduced other problems? I don't know...flaked oats was only 6% of my grain bill.

 

[Bishop9.5]

So even though my calcs don't match beersmiths, I still know how to adjust to get what I want. With sparging, Ive done it before and after squeezing. From my experience, I sparge after I lift the bag and malt-pipe together and rest it on top of the kettle. If you press the grains in the malt-pipe and bag, it only compacts it and then sparging afterwards doesn't get good flow. Ive done it both ways and like sparging first, then remove the bag from malt-pipe and let it hang while I squeeze just enough to get my pre-boil volume.

Not sure which version of Beersmith you're using, I'm on V2, but you should be able to update the default grain absorption rate in the advanced settings for both standard and BIAB methods. If you're already tracking this each batch you should have a good average by now for your system, update the settings and in theory it's one less thing you'll need to worry about.

As for the sparge, this should definitely be done right after lifting the grain pipe out without any compaction. As you pointed out, squeezing first would only restrict the flow and limit the benefits of a sparge. I use a Brew Bag inside the pipe and plan to lift it out after mash out and immediately before moving the bag at all. Once I've poured the sparge water through then I'll give the bag a squeeze to get up to my pre boil volume.

 

[Bishop9.5]

I was under this impression as well, which is why I didn't in my most previous batch. But if I had..maybe my numbers wouldn't have been so darn far off...but I might have introduced other problems? I don't know...flaked oats was only 6% of my grain bill.

In a perfect world you shouldn't need to mill anything that's essentially already milled. When I have my own mill I always ask for stuff like oats to be bagged separately. But it won't hurt anything to run these types of grains through the mill either in a situation like Knightshade's.

 

[myndflyte]

Has anyone had issues with using rye in the Anvil? I use a bag in the malt pipe and last time I used it, I milled it as fine as I normally do my normal grain. So much fine rye particles got through the bag that it ended up scorching the bottom and I had to use a propane setup to finish the brew day. Should I just widen the gap on my mill the next time I use rye?

 

[El Duderino]

Has anyone had issues with using rye in the Anvil? I use a bag in the malt pipe and last time I used it, I milled it as fine as I normally do my normal grain. So much fine rye particles got through the bag that it ended up scorching the bottom and I had to use a propane setup to finish the brew day. Should I just widen the gap on my mill the next time I use rye?

I have, and never had an issue, but never more than 10% of the grain Bill

 

[myndflyte]

I have, and never had an issue, but never more than 10% of the grain Bill

When I had the issue, rye malt was about 9% of the grain bill. But I have a beer coming up where it's over 50% of the grain bill. So I'm nervous it's going to be another disaster. I think I'll just widen the gap a bit and hopefully minimize the flour like particles.

 

[bartichex]

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[Bishop9.5]

Got some goodies for Monday's brew session today.

First, the coveted Spincycle Overboard came in yesterday. Very nicely done, simple, should be effective.

The second is the reason I'm posting, the hop spider I got from Austin Homebrew Supply. I had this exact one that I used on my keggle system and loved it. Turns out it's perfect for the AF, at 6"x14" it's about the max volume that will fit inside the included IC. And because of the adjustable hanger you can really get it down into the kettle.

 

[mbg]

Got some goodies for Monday's brew session today.

First, the coveted Spincycle Overboard came in yesterday. Very nicely done, simple, should be effective.

The second is the reason I'm posting, the hop spider I got from Austin Homebrew Supply. I had this exact one that I used on my keggle system and loved it. Turns out it's perfect for the AF, at 6"x14" it's about the max volume that will fit inside the included IC. And because of the adjustable hanger you can really get it down into the kettle.

My boiloff rates seemed low when I used a 6" basket from my 15 gal. kettle (it does take up about 25% of the surface area on the AF). Let us know if you see a difference. - thanks

 

[Willglenn]

Gentlemen, I submit for your approval, my new 6.5 gallon Foundry. I bought this one to use as a hot liquor tank but am now thinking about using it to brew some small test batches for bottling. I have the 10.5 Foundry but was not happy with the brew in a bag aspect of it. My efficiency was horrible and I was not a fan of the clean up of the malt pipe, dang near need a power washer. So I use it as a boil kettle and mash as I did before with my cooler mash tun. Before you all go off on me, I wanted the ability to brew indoors, only reason I bought it and it’s awesome in that capacity. Mine arrived pristine! No dents no scratches and it was packaged like a tank . Well done Anvil.

 

[Willglenn]

Gentlemen, I submit for your approval, my new 6.5 gallon Foundry. I bought this one to use as a hot liquor tank but am now thinking about using it to brew some small test batches for bottling. I have the 10.5 Foundry but was not happy with the brew in a bag aspect of it. My efficiency was horrible and I was not a fan of the clean up of the malt pipe, dang near need a power washer. So I use it as a boil kettle and mash as I did before with my cooler mash tun. Before you all go off on me, I wanted the ability to brew indoors, only reason I bought it and it’s awesome in that capacity. Mine arrived pristine! No dents no scratches and it was packaged like a tank . Well done Anvil.

Definitely gotta switch it over to 240v.

 

[Coldies]

Pretty much a perfect brew day today running my 3rd batch on the 10.5 AF. Volume and gravity readings were all as predicted, pretty happy about that.

Ended up at 75% mash/lauter efficiency with a full volume mash, right on target. Did a 90 minute mash, waited 15 minutes to start recirculation and raked the top of the grain bed every 15 minutes. Mashed out at 168 for 10 minutes and squeezed the hell out of the bag to get my pre-boil volume. I'm planning to pick up a mill in the near future, should be a free 3-5% right there.

For clean up I put about 2.5 gallons in, dumped in some PBW, brought it up to 120 and used the pump to run the mixture over everything. Tiny bit of scrubbing on the kettle and grain basket, otherwise everything rinsed off nice and clean.

I think I'm going to keep it.

I'm considering bumping up my grain absorption slightly and doing a 1 gallon sparge on the next batch. I really had the put some effort into the squeeze. What I'd lose in efficiency by not squeezing quite as hard I should more than make up for with a sparge. We'll see, sounds like more work.

Why not sparge and squeeze? I think we’ve gotten to spoiled with this system as my old RIMS system and I’m sure yours was a bigger pain to sparge then the AF, haha! So my last brew I lifted the grain basket, sparged, and let it drip for a while, I then used a stainless plate to push down on the grains (in my bag). took the malt pipe out into a bucket and dumped the grains.
Brewing a smoked porter tomorrow and can’t wait. These AF are so far so good

 

[Bishop9.5]

Why not sparge and squeeze? I think we’ve gotten to spoiled with this system as my old RIMS system and I’m sure yours was a bigger pain to sparge then the AF, haha! So my last brew I lifted the grain basket, sparged, and let it drip for a while, I then used a stainless plate to push down on the grains (in my bag). took the malt pipe out into a bucket and dumped the grains.
Brewing a smoked porter tomorrow and can’t wait. These AF are so far so good

Exactly! I bought the AF to be spoiled with simplicity! I'm doing a saison on Monday and plan to do as you described, more for the practice because I'm doing a DIPA later this month that'll require it due to the size of the grain bill.

I told a buddy of mine that brews all grain about how easy my brew days are with the AF. He said "That's it, my stuff's going out on the curb for sale. I'm getting one if these!"

 

[Bishop9.5]

Definitely gotta switch it over to 240v.

Give it a try on 120, you might be surprised. I've got the 10.5 and so far I'm not seeing any reason to install a 240 outlet so I can run it at the higher voltage. Sure, it would save some time, but I've got plenty of that. And I've always been a low rolling boil guy anyway. Now if you've already got the outlet then yeah, why not!

 

[Willglenn]

Give it a try on 120, you might be surprised. I've got the 10.5 and so far I'm not seeing any reason to install a 240 outlet so I can run it at the higher voltage. Sure, it would save some time, but I've got plenty of that. And I've always been a low rolling boil guy anyway. Now if you've already got the outlet then yeah, why not!

I used my 10.5 on 120 for quite a while it works but it works a lot better after switching to 240. Simple to do and worth the effort.

 

[Bishop9.5]

I used my 10.5 on 120 for quite a while it works but it works a lot better after switching to 240. Simple to do and worth the effort.

By better you just mean faster? Or were there other advantages you noticed?

 

[Willglenn]

By better you just mean faster? Or were there other advantages you noticed?

Faster reaching temps and a much improved boil, on 120 the boil was a bit week.

 

[Bishop9.5]

Faster reaching temps and a much improved boil, on 120 the boil was a bit week.

Weak as in not 212 degrees?

 

[DarrellQ]

I used my 10.5 on 120 for quite a while it works but it works a lot better after switching to 240. Simple to do and worth the effort.

Me too.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Had a solid brew day today. NEIPA, OG was suppose to be 1.069, ended up being 1.071. I got my 5.75gal in the fermenter as expected but my losses in the kettle, hoses, hydrometer volumes combined with what I put into the fermenter was about a quart short. Didn't need to squeeze the bag once to hit my preboil volume and perhaps thats where I fell a little short. Should have squeezed that little extra so that the last little bit (under a quart) going into the fermenter didn't hit the hops/trub/break line in the kettle. Still dialing in the volumes with my new setup with the foundry using a bag and brewzilla false bottom though. Just want ALL the intermediary numbers to add-up to expected too.

Probably should start drinking during brew days to relax a little on the details lol.

In the end, with the exception of the last little bit into the fermenter, the wort was very clean despite about 6oz of free roaming hops in the kettle. Hops/trub in fermenter only about a half of a quart based on my fermenter measurements.

 

[Bishop9.5]

View attachment 721291

That wort looks great! So are you sparging then? If yes I'm curious about your mash efficiency since you didn't have to squeeze the bag.