Brew_4iT
Well-Known Member
I really like the 'Special B' sounds like you might be going for a British style with a Belgian twist? Are you going to use Marris Otter for the 2 row?
Analyzing and Visualizing the Benifits of Continuous Hopping?
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I really like the 'Special B' sounds like you might be going for a British style with a Belgian twist? Are you going to use Marris Otter for the 2 row?
Brew_4iT
Well-Known Member
Yeah dude! That is a pretty bold IPA, get ready for a real blast of hops with citra. I love them dryhopped, you can even reuse that ounce for your next batch for bittering if you want. They are a pretty strong alpha acid hop, I think I read they loose about 20% through dryhopping but all considering that is a really strong hop!
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Jsmith82
Well-Known Member
+1
LHBS called me yesterday, I thought my 120 hops were in, turns out they hadn't even shipped yet because they have the Simcoe and Centennial but Amarillo is on back order. I'm hell bent on using those 3 hops so I think for now I'm going to try and find a couple ounces of Citra and just do a simple SMaSH. I tried a citra centered IPA from Scottland a couple weeks ago, it blew my mind! Grapefruit bomb!
Brew_4iT
Well-Known Member
bummer, but yeah I'm a huge Citra fan!! When I think of that hop I think of summertime, once the snow starts falling I'm gonna really want a pint of one, me thinks.
My pale ale should be done in a week, week and a halfs time. I'm thinking just use your same rubric, are you going to post results this thread or make another?
Maybe I'll do a 120 min IPA too. After getting a taste of those IPA's kinda want to make a 5 gal batch of one not just for experimenting but general consumption.. heh. Maybe have a friendly competition with one or something?
My pale ale should be done in a week, week and a halfs time. I'm thinking just use your same rubric, are you going to post results this thread or make another?
Maybe I'll do a 120 min IPA too. After getting a taste of those IPA's kinda want to make a 5 gal batch of one not just for experimenting but general consumption.. heh. Maybe have a friendly competition with one or something?
Brew_4iT
Well-Known Member
Nah, actually thinking about it I'm going to do a IIPA debating continuously hopped or not. Never done a IIPA before and now after reading others and tasting your brews really got my mouth watering to make a 5 gal batch. I'll send out a few bottles to some folks when its done.
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Jsmith82
Well-Known Member
The 120 is a great experience to brew but you definitely have to have an open schedule - it takes a lot of attention. I'd be very open to simultaneously brewing it and swapping, I've swapped more 120s on this forum than any other beer. Tell you though, I'm sticking to my guns and my altered recipe. The original chef recipe is spot on but it's beast. Way more hops, 15%abv, lower fg - I'm extremely confident my second round will be better than the first.
As for results, waiting for a pm from the last participant then I'll post them here.
As for results, waiting for a pm from the last participant then I'll post them here.
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Jsmith82
Well-Known Member
All results are in......... except for my own! I can't figure out where the @!#$ I put my results, I think SWMBO may have pitched them while cleaning the other day. I threw a couple more Cascade + / - beers into the fridge, I'm planning on drinking them tonight or tomorrow THEN we'll be complete and I'll have the final numbers.
Here's to getting drunk and misplacing valuable information
Here's to getting drunk and misplacing valuable information
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Jsmith82
Well-Known Member
After long wait, all results are in and the scores have been calculated...
A quick summary if you're stumbling on to this topic for the first time, I questioned a while back whether or not the continuous hop methods of DFH really brought a more well balanced beer to the table showcasing the hops, or if in a blind test Joe-Beerdrinker (aka me) would even find a noticeable difference. With suggestions from members of the topic, I brewed up 2 gallons of a Cascade IPA, mirror image recipies, 1 gallon was hopped once every 3 minutes for 60 minutes, the other had 2 additions, one early, one late.
Each batch was bottled then blindly labeled so nobody but my better half currently knows which beer was continuously hopped and which was double hopped, the differentiating label on each cap was a plus or minus - she is the only one with the key. I shipped samples of each to 2 HBT members, I took a couple of beers over to my buddy Dave's house, and we all sampled the beers using an identical grading scale for results.
That brings us to today.
First off, an explanation of how we judged the beers: Each participant used a scale of 1-4 in each proposed category which were as follows:
Ratings:
1 = mild / below average
2 = moderate / average
3 = strong / above average
4 = EXTREME / AWESOME
Categories:
Clarity
Nose
Body
Bitterness
Hop Flavor
Malt Flavor
Alcohol Presence
On that note, let's take a look at the results in comparison:
The overall winner unanimously in the tasting experiment was the Cascade IPA -.
Though my buddy D-Leu scored the CIPA+ 2 points higher in the end (the only one to do so), he overall appreciated and enjoyed the CIPA- more. When asked how that's possible with his numbers against him, he explained that bitterness is not a good factor with his pallet though he loves the presence of hops - his ideal IPA being low bitterness, high hop aroma and flavor therefore his bitterness score should count AGAINST his overall number, which ties his numbers at 12/12 if you subtract bitterness.
The first thing that really pops here is the unanimous decision that CIPA- was a better beer, not just by numbers, but by tasting notes from each participant. All 5 of us (Bwomp313 tasted his beers with a friend) stated in our notes that overall the minus was a much more balanced and enjoyable beer - the only one who didn't come right out and say it was Brew4it which comparing his notes to each, CIPA- was clearly his favored of the 2 (please comment and correct me if I'm wrong B4it). So 5 out of 5 drinkers agree on the win, interesting non-coincidental results and good data!
Let's analyze the numbers and bring out some taster notes - I will compare everything however anything that takes a loss by a single digit can fairly be dismissed as too close to call - not enough separation to truly assume there was a noticeable difference.
Clarity: CIPA- wins by 2 points ~ clearly (ba dum tzz
) the better looking and clearer beer of the 2. No additional notes were given on this category.
Nose: CIPA- wins by 1 point ~ This is close but the notes were interesting, Bwomp313 noted neither beer really came forth with a heavy hop front which illustrates the benefits of dry hopping an IPA, however felt CIPA+ was slightly more complex. B4it noted good hop scents on the CIPA- however noted the hops though slightly present were masked by the malt of CIPA+. I noted each had a good malt aroma with very light hop presence though I appreciated the overall scent of CIPA- more in the end. D-Leu was pleased with each.
Body: CIPA+ wins by 1 point ~ I myself noticed no difference in the body of each beer, they each felt identical to myself, Bwomp, and B4it. D-Leu noted a slightly lighter body with the CIPA- however 4 out of 5 tasters seeing no difference, this win is irrelevant.
Bitterness: CIPA- wins by 2 points ~ I felt CIPA- was a bit more on the bitter side however that was matched by the nose and hops so it really came acrossed balanced to me. Ironically D-Leu was the only taster out of us that noted less bitterness with CIPA- in his numbers but didn't give any comments on it. Bwomp and B4it also showed bitterness differences between the beers, no notes from Bwomp, B4it noted a more up front bitterness with CIPA+ and though he scored higher bitterness for the CIPA- this was masked by the hop malt balance of the beer, no additional notes were given.
Hop Flavor: CIPA- wins by 3 points ~ Now here are some goooood numbers. Clearly the most different feature of each beer. I didn't really notice anything to different about the 2 accept that I could better define the hops profile from CIPA- but I felt it wasn't enough to bump the score up. All other tasters unanimously felt that the hops were more upfront and present in CIPA-. Bwomp noticed hardly any difference noting he did get more fruit from CIPA-, B4it noted CIPA+ may have been masked by the malt but the balance of CIPA- definitely brought forward the hop profile, D-Leu noted he liked the fact the hops were more present with the bitterness masked which is interesting when looking at the other tasting notes, perhaps it was the balance of the beer that masked the bitterness from his pallet giving a all together better drinking experience.
Malt Flavor: CIPA+ wins by 1 point ~ This is an interesting category, a split decision if you will. I tasted nothing really different, D-Leu caught less in the CIPA-, Bwomp caught less in the CIPA+, and B4it caught less in the CIPA-. More than one brewer noted more sweetness from the CIPA+ however we all clearly noted a solid presence. Close call here.
Alcohol Presence: CIPA- wins by 1 point ~ Nobody likes to smell rocket fuel and I was pleased that 4 out of 5 tasters saw no difference between the 2 beers, 3 of us noting a low score presence of 1. B4it caught more alcohol taste and scent with the CIPA-, the deciding factor in the category - looking at his scores it's apparent that less malt body led to more hop aroma yet unmasked a little more scent of alcohol. Being though 2 is the highest number here, both beers are winners in this category to me showing hardly no noticeable differences between the tasters.
And there you have it. The results of this taste testing experiment, Cascade IPA - is the winner by unanimous decision.
BEFORE I SPILL THE BEANS AND POST THE KEY....... Participants, tasters, topic followers, drifting forum readers, I'm curious after looking at the charts and reading the result comparison notes, please tell me the following:
Which beer do YOU think is the Continuously Hopped Cascade IPA, and which beer is the Double Hopped Cascade IPA?
I will post the key tonight when I get home from work.
Cheers!
A quick summary if you're stumbling on to this topic for the first time, I questioned a while back whether or not the continuous hop methods of DFH really brought a more well balanced beer to the table showcasing the hops, or if in a blind test Joe-Beerdrinker (aka me) would even find a noticeable difference. With suggestions from members of the topic, I brewed up 2 gallons of a Cascade IPA, mirror image recipies, 1 gallon was hopped once every 3 minutes for 60 minutes, the other had 2 additions, one early, one late.
Each batch was bottled then blindly labeled so nobody but my better half currently knows which beer was continuously hopped and which was double hopped, the differentiating label on each cap was a plus or minus - she is the only one with the key. I shipped samples of each to 2 HBT members, I took a couple of beers over to my buddy Dave's house, and we all sampled the beers using an identical grading scale for results.
That brings us to today.
First off, an explanation of how we judged the beers: Each participant used a scale of 1-4 in each proposed category which were as follows:
Ratings:
1 = mild / below average
2 = moderate / average
3 = strong / above average
4 = EXTREME / AWESOME
Categories:
Clarity
Nose
Body
Bitterness
Hop Flavor
Malt Flavor
Alcohol Presence
On that note, let's take a look at the results in comparison:
The overall winner unanimously in the tasting experiment was the Cascade IPA -.
Though my buddy D-Leu scored the CIPA+ 2 points higher in the end (the only one to do so), he overall appreciated and enjoyed the CIPA- more. When asked how that's possible with his numbers against him, he explained that bitterness is not a good factor with his pallet though he loves the presence of hops - his ideal IPA being low bitterness, high hop aroma and flavor therefore his bitterness score should count AGAINST his overall number, which ties his numbers at 12/12 if you subtract bitterness.
The first thing that really pops here is the unanimous decision that CIPA- was a better beer, not just by numbers, but by tasting notes from each participant. All 5 of us (Bwomp313 tasted his beers with a friend) stated in our notes that overall the minus was a much more balanced and enjoyable beer - the only one who didn't come right out and say it was Brew4it which comparing his notes to each, CIPA- was clearly his favored of the 2 (please comment and correct me if I'm wrong B4it). So 5 out of 5 drinkers agree on the win, interesting non-coincidental results and good data!
Let's analyze the numbers and bring out some taster notes - I will compare everything however anything that takes a loss by a single digit can fairly be dismissed as too close to call - not enough separation to truly assume there was a noticeable difference.
Clarity: CIPA- wins by 2 points ~ clearly (ba dum tzz
) the better looking and clearer beer of the 2. No additional notes were given on this category.Nose: CIPA- wins by 1 point ~ This is close but the notes were interesting, Bwomp313 noted neither beer really came forth with a heavy hop front which illustrates the benefits of dry hopping an IPA, however felt CIPA+ was slightly more complex. B4it noted good hop scents on the CIPA- however noted the hops though slightly present were masked by the malt of CIPA+. I noted each had a good malt aroma with very light hop presence though I appreciated the overall scent of CIPA- more in the end. D-Leu was pleased with each.
Body: CIPA+ wins by 1 point ~ I myself noticed no difference in the body of each beer, they each felt identical to myself, Bwomp, and B4it. D-Leu noted a slightly lighter body with the CIPA- however 4 out of 5 tasters seeing no difference, this win is irrelevant.
Bitterness: CIPA- wins by 2 points ~ I felt CIPA- was a bit more on the bitter side however that was matched by the nose and hops so it really came acrossed balanced to me. Ironically D-Leu was the only taster out of us that noted less bitterness with CIPA- in his numbers but didn't give any comments on it. Bwomp and B4it also showed bitterness differences between the beers, no notes from Bwomp, B4it noted a more up front bitterness with CIPA+ and though he scored higher bitterness for the CIPA- this was masked by the hop malt balance of the beer, no additional notes were given.
Hop Flavor: CIPA- wins by 3 points ~ Now here are some goooood numbers. Clearly the most different feature of each beer. I didn't really notice anything to different about the 2 accept that I could better define the hops profile from CIPA- but I felt it wasn't enough to bump the score up. All other tasters unanimously felt that the hops were more upfront and present in CIPA-. Bwomp noticed hardly any difference noting he did get more fruit from CIPA-, B4it noted CIPA+ may have been masked by the malt but the balance of CIPA- definitely brought forward the hop profile, D-Leu noted he liked the fact the hops were more present with the bitterness masked which is interesting when looking at the other tasting notes, perhaps it was the balance of the beer that masked the bitterness from his pallet giving a all together better drinking experience.
Malt Flavor: CIPA+ wins by 1 point ~ This is an interesting category, a split decision if you will. I tasted nothing really different, D-Leu caught less in the CIPA-, Bwomp caught less in the CIPA+, and B4it caught less in the CIPA-. More than one brewer noted more sweetness from the CIPA+ however we all clearly noted a solid presence. Close call here.
Alcohol Presence: CIPA- wins by 1 point ~ Nobody likes to smell rocket fuel and I was pleased that 4 out of 5 tasters saw no difference between the 2 beers, 3 of us noting a low score presence of 1. B4it caught more alcohol taste and scent with the CIPA-, the deciding factor in the category - looking at his scores it's apparent that less malt body led to more hop aroma yet unmasked a little more scent of alcohol. Being though 2 is the highest number here, both beers are winners in this category to me showing hardly no noticeable differences between the tasters.
And there you have it. The results of this taste testing experiment, Cascade IPA - is the winner by unanimous decision.
BEFORE I SPILL THE BEANS AND POST THE KEY....... Participants, tasters, topic followers, drifting forum readers, I'm curious after looking at the charts and reading the result comparison notes, please tell me the following:
Which beer do YOU think is the Continuously Hopped Cascade IPA, and which beer is the Double Hopped Cascade IPA?
I will post the key tonight when I get home from work.
Cheers!
Grumpybumpy
Well-Known Member
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- 6
My guess is that the plus is continually hopped
Grumpybumpy
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2011
- Messages
- 709
- Reaction score
- 6
And here I go to edit my comment... Heh kidding! interesting experiment, I'll have to try it on my next ipa. I thought that maybe the hop bomb at the end would have a greater effect on hop flavor, but you've proven me wrong. Cool stuff. Thanks for doing it!
Brew_4iT
Well-Known Member
Interesting I had the higher scores for body and clarity. I thought I was going to be more modest than others would be lol. The way I saw it in grading was for its style, I think that is partly for the higher scores. For instance clarity I was thinking in my mind SRM and per style a nice amber color with a little translucency would have a higher score for an IPA. But I guess reading up on it it can be anywhere from 6-15 SRM for an American IPA which is actually a lot lower than I originally thought.
Good stuff there! I thought it was going to be different how you calculated your values, but I actually think the way you did it is better, although everyone's tongue is different it seems more than apparent that appreciation is generally the same.
Good stuff there! I thought it was going to be different how you calculated your values, but I actually think the way you did it is better, although everyone's tongue is different it seems more than apparent that appreciation is generally the same.
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