Amber DME vs. Steeping Crystal Malt

[straylight77]

I just finished a pre-boiled pre-made kit (Festa Brew Pale Ale) that's currently conditioning in bottles. For my next batch I wanted to do a real boil with an extract recipe. Something similar to Palmer's Cincinnati Pale Ale.

Palmer's recipe calls for:
3-4 lbs of Pale LME
3 lbs of Amber DME

However, the place that I'm looking to get my supplies from doesn't have any Amber extract at all but they do have specialty grains like Carastan and a few others. So could I do something like this?

7 lbs. of Pale LME
1 lb of Carastan approx 30-40L (steeped)

According to the calculators at tastybrew.com it would get close to the same OG (1.050) and colour (8 SRM). Given this is my first recipe I wanted a second opinion before I wasted any money and effort. Thoughts?

P.S. I really like the tools at tastybrew.com but I find the IBU calculations are way off compared to other sources. For example Palmer calls for 12 AAU of bittering hops while that seems to blow way past the range for what tastybrew.com considers an American Pale Ale in terms of IBU. Both seem to use the Tinseth method? I'm still researching but I would love to hear if anyone can point me in the right direction.

 

[bknifefight]

It really depends on the brand of the Amber DME but I would say that 1 lb of C40 would give you a nice color and flavor addition.

Also, it's a good habit to get into making the base of your recipe be just light DME. That way you will learn more about how specialty grains work and it is similar to making a recipe in All Grain brewing.

 

[PT Ray]

Briess reports that they use 2-row, Munich and crystal 60 for their Sparkling Amber extract. I would say just steep some crystal with the pale extract as you mentioned.

 

[cheezydemon3]

Amber DME can change over time, I would DEFINITELY steep crystal of the same Lovibond so that you can determine what you like or don't about that lovibond, and you can then amend your recipe the way you want.

Otherwise just get kits or find a commercial brew you like.

 

[straylight77]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Hopefully I'll get to try this out this weekend. Just waiting to get some StarSan from my brother-in-law -- using bleach last time screwed up my last batch...

 

[smata67]

On page 29 of the Homebrewer's Companion, Papazian offers the following conversions for Amber Extract:

5 lbs of light malt extract + 2 cups crystal=5 lbs light malt extract + 1/2 cup black, roasted or chocolate malt.

1 cup= 1/4 lb. The lovibond of the crystal is not identified.

 

[straylight77]

On page 29 of the Homebrewer's Companion, Papazian offers the following conversions for Amber Extract:

5 lbs of light malt extract + 2 cups crystal=5 lbs light malt extract + 1/2 cup black, roasted or chocolate malt.

1 cup= 1/4 lb. The lovibond of the crystal is not identified.

Thanks for this! In all my searching so far I haven't seen a comparison like this. So it sounds like with 7 lbs of LME if I had 1 lbs of crystal, that might be have a little extra sweetness and body -- I should have 0.7 lbs (or 10%).

I'm actually fine with a bit extra body. I'll just compensate with a few extra hops! I think I'm aiming for ~40 IBU. Unless anyone would recommend something else?

 

[smata67]

Thanks for this! In all my searching so far I haven't seen a comparison like this. So it sounds like with 7 lbs of LME if I had 1 lbs of crystal, that might be have a little extra sweetness and body -- I should have 0.7 lbs (or 10%).

I'm actually fine with a bit extra body. I'll just compensate with a few extra hops! I think I'm aiming for ~40 IBU. Unless anyone would recommend something else?

Some caveats. The malt type appears to be light, not extra light. Probably does not matter much. The 5# of extract is most likely dry, though its not specified, so you have to convert for liquid. The crystal lovibond is not not specified, the book is a bit dated, maybe an old timer can clarify what was understood as plain crystal back then, probably 40 or 60.

If you post your recipe, someone can run it through beersmith to see what your actual IBUs are. I usually follow a recipe as published and don't adjust the IBUs unless they are way off. And yes, there is often drastic differences between what is published and what beersmith says it is.

 

[straylight77]

Here's what I was thinking:

5 Gal batch with a 3 Gal boil

Yeast: Nottingham or US-05

7lbs . Pale Malt Extract - 47.6 Points
1lb. Carastan (steeped) - 4.4 Points

OG: 1.052
BG: 1.087

0.5oz Northern Brewer 10% @ 60min - 20 IBU
0.5oz Cascade 6% @ 30 min - 10 IBU
0.5oz Cascade 6% @ 15 min - 6 IBU
0.5oz Cascade 6% @ 5 min - 3 IBU
0.5oz Cascade 6% @ knockout - 0 IBU

Total IBU: ~40

I did all the calculations by hand (using a spreadsheet that I made) based on formulas in How To Brew and what I've found on these forums.

Basically I just want a simple, easy recipe for my first go and to make sure it's balanced enough before I go through the cost and effort. Something I can start tweaking and experimenting with in future batches.

 

[smata67]

The recipe is fine. Using beersmith:

OG: 1.051
FG: 1.013
color: 10
IBU: 23.5
ABV: 4.94

3/4oz NB: yields IBU: 30
1oz NB: yields IBU: 36

American Pale Ale: 30-45 IBU
ESB: 30-50 IBU

I like how 05 mates with cascade, but either are fine.