Almost a disaster!

[Stauffbier]

So I brewed up an Imperial Irish Stout today. Everything was going as per plan. I was chilling my wort with my immersion chiller like normal, but it took a little longer now that the weather is in the low 80's. After I was done I shut off the water spigot and removed the chiller. I put the lid on the kettle and carried it into the house. I wanted to rinse my IC off real quick while my wort was whirlpooling. As I approached the water spigot I noticed I could hear the sound of running water. The only problem was...... there was no water running anywhere on my property. What the heck?! Usually, the sound of running water on a closed system means a leak under the slab. When I realized what I was hearing I freaked out! So, what had been a great brew day had just turned into a plumbing emergency. I went around the entire house and property trying to figure out where the sound was coming from. I finally narrowed it down to an underground water line going to my back yard water spigot. I quickly turned off the water supply to the house and capped off the line at one of the unions leading to it above ground. I didn't have to jack-hammer my house up trying to fix a leak! Thank goodness! I'm guessing the counter pressure that my chiller created must have made a corroded line burst.. Food for thought! On a possitive note, I hit all of my numbers and got 76.5% efficiency on my Imperial Stout today!!

 

[worksnorth]

I'm glad that it wasn't worse than it was! I too have underwater lines going to a sprinkler system that occasionally spring leaks.
I'm thinking that your chiller wasn't the issue though, it shouldn't have added any additional pressure to your system as it only uses system pressure.. correct? Probably just a coincidence.
Anyway, 76.5% is pretty good in anybody's system!
Cheers!

 

[Stauffbier]

I'm glad that it wasn't worse than it was! I too have underwater lines going to a sprinkler system that occasionally spring leaks.
I'm thinking that your chiller wasn't the issue though, it shouldn't have added any additional pressure to your system as it only uses system pressure.. correct? Probably just a coincidence.
Anyway, 76.5% is pretty good in anybody's system!
Cheers!

It happened on the water line that was supplying water to my chiller, so I'm thinking the chiller must creat some sort of back pressure. It wasn't like that before chilling. After exposing part of the pipe I discovered it was very corroded, so I don't think it would have taken much pressure to make it burst..

 

[worksnorth]

Ok, I'm sure you are right. Guess I just don't understand how the chiller.. which allows water to pass through it when the supply valve is open to it, can cause the supply pressure to increase? Seems like if anything it would cause the water psi to decrease. Shutting the chiller in, as in closing the supply to it would cause supply psi to increase as it now has nowhere to go.
But like I say, I'm probably missing something. : )

 

[Stauffbier]

Ok, I'm sure you are right. Guess I just don't understand how the chiller.. which allows water to pass through it when the supply valve is open to it, can cause the supply pressure to increase? Seems like if anything it would cause the water psi to decrease. Shutting the chiller in, as in closing the supply to it would cause supply psi to increase as it now has nowhere to go.
But like I say, I'm probably missing something. : )

The only reason I think it makes back pressure is because where the hose is conected to the spigot starts leaking every time I chill. Any other time I use it like for a sprinkler or something it doesn't leak. My guess is the smaller diameter of the copper chiller with the high pressure ( I crank my hose all the way up - maybe I'll stop doing that) causes back pressure.

 

[worksnorth]

Ok man, ok.

 

[Stauffbier]

Ok man, ok.

HA! It's just my theory, but I've been wrong plenty of times!

 

[carp]

Worksnorth, you must be a nice guy, very diplomatic

 

[Stauffbier]

Worksnorth, you must be a nice guy, very diplomatic

If I didn't know better I would think you just insulted me!

 

[carp]

No, no insult intended.

However I'm quite sure that your theory about the chiller creating extra backpressure on your water system is completely incorrect. Think a bit about what he said to you (in his clear and friendly way) and it should become more obvious.

 

[Stauffbier]

No, no insult intended.

However I'm quite sure that your theory about the chiller creating extra backpressure on your water system is completely incorrect. Think a bit about what he said to you (in his clear and friendly way) and it should become more obvious.

I respectfully disagree! If you have some sort of data or facts that prove what you're saying, I won't dispute it. Otherwise, we're all just speculating! Sorry, I'm just stubborn that way. I think I feel an experiment coming on! I have a water pressure gauge that I use to test outlet pressure of the homes I work on. I think I'm going to rig it up in a couple different ways to test my theory. I'll report back with what I find out. If I'm wrong I will gladly admit it..

 

[carp]

I'll look forward to the results of your test.

 

[passedpawn]

Attaching something to your water supply will NOT increase the pressure ...

... until you turn it off. When you shut off the flow of water, there is a momentary increase in pressure above the city pressure. I was a volunteer fire fighter and we called it a water hammer. It's why you shut off the valve on a fire hose slowly and not abruptly.

The greater the flow, and the faster you "snap" the flow off, the greater the hammer. Has to do with the impulse created when the momentum of water changes quickly. There are analogs in mechanical and electrical worlds.

The "back pressure" is a reference to the impedance caused by the chiller or any other restriction. It's not an increase in pressure above city pressure.

 

[Stauffbier]

Attaching something to your water supply will NOT increase the pressure ...

... until you turn it off. When you shut off the flow of water, there is a momentary increase in pressure above the city pressure. I was a volunteer fire fighter and we called it a water hammer. It's why you shut off the valve on a fire hose slowly and not abruptly.

The greater the flow, and the faster you "snap" the flow off, the greater the hammer. Has to do with the impulse created when the momentum of water changes quickly. There are analogs in mechanical and electrical worlds.

The "back pressure" is a reference to the impedance caused by the chiller or any other restriction. It's not an increase in pressure above city pressure.

Perhaps it's just a coincidence that it happened right after using my chiller. Just a strange coincidence, though!

 

[Stauffbier]

Ok here are the results of my test..

This first photo is the pressure at the spigot with only the water hose attached while running with the valve 100% open;

The second photo is the pressure at the spigot with my IC attached to the end of the water hose while running with the valve 100% open;

There is an obvious rise in pressure when the IC is running. I will admit that the higher pressure when running the IC is not any higher than the "static" pressure of my system, but as passedpawn mentioned there was a spike in pressure upon opening and closing the valve due to the impedance created by the IC. This spike was not present when I ran water without the IC. The quick spike was higher than static pressure of my system. So, my guess is that the underground pipe was rotted, and the quick spike during start-up and shut-down were enough of a jump in pressure to blow out a weak section of the corroded pipe. It's just a theory...

 

[worksnorth]

Attaching something to your water supply will NOT increase the pressure ...

... until you turn it off. When you shut off the flow of water, there is a momentary increase in pressure above the city pressure. I was a volunteer fire fighter and we called it a water hammer. It's why you shut off the valve on a fire hose slowly and not abruptly.

The greater the flow, and the faster you "snap" the flow off, the greater the hammer. Has to do with the impulse created when the momentum of water changes quickly. There are analogs in mechanical and electrical worlds.

The "back pressure" is a reference to the impedance caused by the chiller or any other restriction. It's not an increase in pressure above city pressure.

This is exactly how I would have worded it it I'd have had the words to word it.
Seriously though, I've 20+years in the oilfield industry. If there was an item we could use in the process that could increase psi (not talking about water hammer), and it was not some sort of mechanical item (ie pump) we would be using it! And, if anyone should happen to come up with this device.. please PM me, we need to talk! If you allow it.. we will both be stinkin rich and can quit our jobs and homebrew full time!!!!!!
This means you Stauffbier! Bring your chiller, we could make billions! : ) Cheers my friend!

 

[carp]

I can buy that theory. But I would suggest that there is nothing unique about your chiller vs the sprinkler or perhaps even 100 ft of hose or anything else.

You say there was no spike when you closed the valve with only the hose running but that there was a spike when the IC was connected to the hose? I find that very surprising, and wonder if you could/would test that again. Also interesting that there was a spike when you opened the valve.

Just out of curiousity what is the static pressure? And how long is the hose?

 

[Stauffbier]

I can buy that theory. But I would suggest that there is nothing unique about your chiller vs the sprinkler or perhaps even 100 ft of hose or anything else.

You say there was no spike when you closed the valve with only the hose running but that there was a spike when the IC was connected to the hose? I find that very surprising, and wonder if you could/would test that again. Also interesting that there was a spike when you opened the valve.

Just out of curiousity what is the static pressure? And how long is the hose?

The static pressure was 84. The spike on start-up (with IC connected) was 86. The spike on shut-down (with IC connected) was almost 96. The hose is 50ft long. My IC is also 50ft. long by 1/2 OD and I connected it to the 50ft hose. I was wrong about not spiking with just the hose. There indeed is a spike with just the water hose as well, but it doesn't spike higher than the static pressure. It only spiked to about 60, and only on shut-down. Not on start-up. I should add that the underground water line was VERY rusted. It would have only taken a mole fart to make it start leaking. I'm sure it's just coincidence that it started leaking right when I started chilling, but I'll always be a little nervous when I start that thing up now. As passedpawn mentioned I will try to open and close the valve slowly vs. abruptly in an effort to control the "water hammer effect"..

 

[worksnorth]

Mole Fart!!!!! I love that!!!

 

[Stauffbier]

Mole Fart!!!!! I love that!!!

Mole farts smell like molasses, just FYI.... :fro: