All of my beers are bad.

[Big Monk]

It stayed between 62-64 the entire fermentation period.

Where and how are you measuring fermentation temperature? How are you controlling temperature?

 

[alexipa]

The water is 7.2, but I believe my mash pH should have been around 5.64 (according to calculators). Not ideal, but definitely not crazy I believe.

 

[alexipa]

Where and how are you measuring fermentation temperature? How are you controlling temperature?

Using a chest freezer with inkbird. I have a temp strip on the bucket.

 

[VikeMan]

Hi, I’m new so I’m not gospel. But have you read the Palmer book? That water is 7.2 and you need 5.2-5.6 for mash.

Water pH and mash pH are different things. Mash pH, even without any treatment is always lower than the source water's pH.

 

[Big Monk]

Using a chest freezer with inkbird. I have a temp strip on the bucket.

You mention medicinal, chemical flavors. Where is the Inkbird taking it's temp reading from?

 

[alexipa]

You mention medicinal, chemical flavors. Where is the Inkbird taking it's temp reading from?

I have it in a jar of water in the freezer, seems to work pretty well.

 

[Newtobrewing85]

Water pH and mash pH are different things. Mash pH, even without any treatment is always lower than the source water's pH.

Sorry, ill bow out lol.

 

[Big Monk]

What strikes me is that you don't seem to have been satisfied with the beers prior to your switch to the Anvil system either.

Sorry, ill bow out lol.

Water pH IS important if the Source water has a ton of Alkalinity. Source Water pH determines the mEq contribution the Alkalinity component. In this case, the El Dorado water quote has low Alkalinity so Source Water pH is less important.

 

[Big Monk]

I have it in a jar of water in the freezer, seems to work pretty well.

My suggestion? Brew and extract batch and ferment it as normal and see if you like the flavors you get, in a general sense. This could tell you a few things:

a.) If the off flavors persist into the Extract batch, it may be a fermentation/sanitization issue you are having;

b.) If the off flavors are not present in the extract batch, you may have an issue with how you are executing your all-grain batches.

This is an issue of troubleshooting and you need a clean baseline to be able to determine where to put your energy.

 

[alexipa]

My suggestion? Brew and extract batch and ferment it as normal and see if you like the flavors you get, in a general sense. This could tell you a few things:

a.) If the off flavors persist into the Extract batch, it may be a fermentation/sanitization issue you are having;

b.) If the off flavors are not present in the extract batch, you may have an issue with how you are executing your all-grain batches.

This is an issue of troubleshooting and you need a clean baseline to be able to determine where to put your energy.

This is a great thought. I really don't want to go back to extract, but you're right that it would give me some needed info.

 

[Big Monk]

This is a great thought. I really don't want to go back to extract, but you're right that it would give me some needed info.

The most neglected aspect of brewing is troubleshooting. Even with experience, troubleshooting can't be ignored. All brewers, of all skill levels, will run into situations that make them scratch their heads. Your ability to reason your way into a solution is your most valued skill.

 

[IslandLizard]

I really don't want to go back to extract

How were your extract batches compared to the (new) all grain ones?
Which extracts?
Using the same water?

Have others than you and your wife tasted your beer? Such as homebrewers you know (or a homebrew club)?

 

[alexipa]

How were your extract batches compared to the (new) all grain ones?
Which extracts?
Using the same water?

Have others than you and your wife tasted your beer? Such as homebrewers you know (or a homebrew club)?

The last time I did extract was in 2012 I believe. I took a long break from brewing about 2016 to now. Back in 2012, they were some of my best beers. I brewed a stout for a wedding that many said was the best stout they'd ever had (it was extract). I was using Boulder tap water then. As I mentioned before, using my old AG rig I had also placed in a couple homebrew competitions. That was using Boulder tap water as well.

That's why this is so confusing and frustrating! I actually still have my recipe and notes from that stout, so I'm going to brew it again this weekend I think.

 

[IslandLizard]

Super bitter taste, like so bitter it's hard to taste anything else.
Reminds me of west coast IPAs during the IBU craze.

You may be very sensitive to bitterness or just not like it (yet).
What is your favorite commercial or craft beer?

However the smell is straight up medicinal chemicals.

That's definitely an important sign something is indeed off.

Does the Eldorado water itself smell of chlorine or anything chemical?
Does it come in large (5 gallon) plastic carboys to put onto a water dispenser?

 

[Brewmasher]

A lot of possible causes listed here. I would suggest taking a sample to the nearest brewpub or two and asking the brewmaster to give their opinion. What do other people think?

 

[IslandLizard]

many said [it] was the best stout they'd ever had (it was extract). I was using Boulder tap water then.

High mineral water is generally good for brewing dark beers. Stouts are also very forgiving, the roast can hide a lot too.

using my old AG rig I had also placed in a couple homebrew competitions. That was using Boulder tap water as well.

So, compared to your old setup you changed:

1. Water
2. Brew rig
3. Brew method (all grain vs. extract)

Did you ever thoroughly clean your new rig to remove machining oils and residue? Re-passivate the stainless?

Not sure you mentioned it, what sanitizer do you use?

 

[alexipa]

You may be very sensitive to bitterness or just not like it (yet).
What is your favorite commercial or craft beer?

That's definitely an important sign something is indeed off.

Does the Eldorado water itself smell of chlorine or anything chemical?
Does it come in large (5 gallon) plastic carboys to put onto a water dispenser?

I don't think I'm super sensitive to bitterness, some of my favorite beers are IPAs. The Eldorado water smells and tastes like good water to me - comes in 1 gallon jugs.

 

[Brewski_59]

Send a sample of your water to Ward labs for analysis. Then with the information you receive back you can determine if your water needs any adjustments. Once you know what is in your water then you can use a tool such as Brun water to help make adjustments.

If it isn't a water issue, then I'd see what in the process could be leading toward astringency.

There are many causes of process-related beer astringency: over-sparging, sparging with water above 168°F (76°C), steeping your grains too long, mash pH above the 5.2-5.6 range, over hopping, or boiling your grains can extract excessive tannins from the husks. Milling your grains too fine and poor hot-break removal resulting in too much trub may be sources of bitterness as well.

 

[alexipa]

High mineral water is generally good for brewing dark beers. Stouts are also very forgiving, the roast can hide a lot too.

So, compared to your old setup you changed:

1. Water
2. Brew rig
3. Brew method (all grain vs. extract)

Did you ever thoroughly clean your new rig to remove machining oils and residue? Re-passivate the stainless?

Not sure you mentioned it, what sanitizer do you use?

I changed just the rig from when I was making good beer. I had made extract prior to both rigs. My previous rig (where I did make good beer) was still AG and with tap water. This new rig I've tried both tap and Eldorado spring with the same poor results.

I did clean the new rig with oxyclean + sanitize with starsan. The re-passivate question is interesting, I didn't do anything like that.

 

[IslandLizard]

I don't think I'm super sensitive to bitterness, some of my favorite beers are IPAs.

Alright, now we're talking. You understand (good) bitterness.

I had written this before, then erased it when I saw you're using a "Coffee Urn" type mash/boil vessel, with elements mounted underneath the bottom.
Is there a possibility your wort is being scorched?
Either during the recirculation of the mash or boil?
Have you tasted the wort?

The Eldorado water smells and tastes like good water to me - comes in 1 gallon jugs.

Sounds pricey...
Do you happen to know the water profile of your Boulder (municipal) tap water?

 

[Brewski_59]

Another thought, you say you heat to 158 then add grain, Did you verify the accuracy of your thermometer? It may be reading 158 but actually be something else all together, set you thermometer in boiling water to verify it reads 212 F. Oops, I see you in Boulder, make that 201F.

 

[VikeMan]

Another thought, you say you heat to 158 then add grain, Did you verify the accuracy of your thermometer? It may be reading 158 but actually be something else all together, set you thermometer in boiling water to verify it reads 212 F. Oops, I see you in Boulder, make that 201F.

More like 202F at Boulder's Elevation of 5328 feet. But who's counting?

 

[Brewski_59]

More like 202F at Boulder's Elevation of 5328 feet. But who's counting?

I looked it up on a google search. Their chart said 201.5 I figured the point 5 could be dropped. But I guess rounding up makes sense.

 

[VikeMan]

I looked it up on a google search. Their chart said 201.5 I figured the point 5 could be dropped.

Not that it really matters much, but at 5328 feet, water boils at 202.4F, at least per the standard calculators.

 

[alexipa]

I think the possibility of the wort scorching is low due to the design of the foundry, but it still seems like a possibility. Like I said, I get it to a boil really quickly at 240v. I'm definitely going to back down the power to maybe ~75% next time to see if it helps. Great idea... not sure I would have thought of this!

I don't have a profile for Boulder water, but I know it's generally considered soft for brewing. The Eldorado water is $1/gallon which is a bit annoying. My latest beer (in fermenter now) I used tap water + a campden tablet.

 

[alexipa]

Another thought, you say you heat to 158 then add grain, Did you verify the accuracy of your thermometer? It may be reading 158 but actually be something else all together, set you thermometer in boiling water to verify it reads 212 F. Oops, I see you in Boulder, make that 201F.

I haven't verified the accuracy, I'm going to do this today. Good call.

 

[IslandLizard]

I think the possibility of the wort scorching is low due to the design of the foundry, but it still seems like a possibility. Like I said, I get it to a boil really quickly at 240v. I'm definitely going to back down the power to maybe ~75% next time to see if it helps. Great idea... not sure I would have thought of this!

I don't have a profile for Boulder water, but I know it's generally considered soft for brewing. The Eldorado water is $1/gallon which is a bit annoying. My latest beer (in fermenter now) I used tap water + a campden tablet.

Hopefully your current brew is perfect! Did you taste the boiled wort? I always do.
Reducing power a bit during heating and recirculating of wort is worth testing. Not needed when heating water, you can't scorch it, whatever you try.

Soft, low alkalinity is good!
Any way to get the current water mineral content? Contact your water company?
I contacted mine and got the skinny from the quality manager himself. Perfect, almost blank slate brewing water, year-round, that only needs a pinch of Campden. Oh, and a quick (visual) color/turbidity check and smell/taste test.

It's also good to know how stable that profile is, or if it fluctuates much, by (supply) sources, season, etc.

 

[IslandLizard]

Not that it really matters much, but at 5328 feet, water boils at 202.4F, at least per the standard calculators.

Not much of a difference, but the lower boil temp can cause 2 things.

1. Somewhat higher boil off (evaporation), and
2. Somewhat lower hop utilization, reducing alpha acid isomerization, resulting in somewhat lower bitterness.

 

[VikeMan]

Not much of a difference, but the lower boil temp can cause 2 things.

1. Somewhat higher boil off (evaporation), and
2. Somewhat lower hop utilization, reducing alpha acid isomerization, resulting in somewhat lower bitterness.

Agree. I was referring to the (less significant) difference between 201F and 202F.

 

[alexipa]

Makes sense. I'll contact the water company and see if I can figure it out.

I did a thermometer test, it seems like the foundry reading is dead-on or within a degree or two, not enough to cause this much of a problem I don't think. My next step is to clean it with bar keeper's friend and do a deep clean on all of my equipment again. Beyond that, I'll brew an extract recipe next. If that one also turns out bad, I guess it must be water (which would blow me away as many people brew with the tap water here) or sanitization. If that turns out good it's time to deep dive on grain crush, mash pH, and the specific AG process of the foundry.

Does this all sound right?