All Grain: What is the advantage?

[BarryNL]

I've been reading a lot on the techniques of all-grain brewing but I've not really come across anything which gives a good reason for why you should go all-grain. Is it mainly just wanting to really feel like you've produced you own beer, or can you actually produce a better beer or types which cannot be produced with extract+specialities.

I don't really feel the desire to do more of the work myself (though I can understand why some people do), but if I can make a better beer by going all-grain then I'd consider it.

Any words of wisdom?

 

[Dude]

Unprecedented control over flavor, color, mouthfeel, and everything in between.

 

[Yooper]

And, it's cheaper. Crushed grain is about $1/lb. I used 8 pounds today, plus some specialty grains for a batch. Now, you might have to make quite a few batches to recoup the investment. I paid about $100 for my MLT. I had all the other equipment already. Still, the Brewer's Best kits were about $25-35 each.

I can brew ANYTHING now. Extract, partial mash, AG. I'm going to be making my first foray into using rye when I make the 777 brew.

And, I have to reiterate what Dude said. I like a maltier brew- so I can control the temperature and thickness of the mash to give me a less fermentable wort. Well, I try to do that but still have some bugs to work out with the strike temperature. If I wanted a drier, more fermentable wort I can do that too. It's not that AG is necessarily better- but you do have more input into the outcome.

 

[Dude]

The reasons I switched over initially were because I felt like allof my extract beers kind of had the same underlying taste. I felt like I was making ragu spaghetti instead of home-made spaghetti.

I was also fascinated by the fact that I could take freaking grain, add hot water to it, and make my own extract. It amazed me then and does even moreso now.

All of that said--I am STILL trying to replicate (in AG) one of my first extract beers. I've yet to make it as good as that first batch of LWPA. You can make damn good beer by doing extract. You can make world class beer by doing AG.

 

[BierMuncher]

I've been reading a lot on the techniques of all-grain brewing but I've not really come across anything which gives a good reason for why you should go all-grain. Is it mainly just wanting to really feel like you've produced you own beer, or can you actually produce a better beer or types which cannot be produced with extract+specialities.

I don't really feel the desire to do more of the work myself (though I can understand why some people do), but if I can make a better beer by going all-grain then I'd consider it.

Any words of wisdom?

Extract brewing yields great results, but AG just takes the brewer to the purest form of the art.

I compare it to buying fresh tomatoes from the road side produce stand, or growing your own tomatoes from seed in soil you tilled in your back yard.

Both will taste great but those tomatoes you grew from seeds are just going to make a little bit better salsa or pasta sauce becuase you controlled the soil, the water, the fertilization the pruning...etc. You essentially created something from nothing.

AG brewing is an ancient art. Extract brewing is good, but let's face it, your simply cooking up something that someone else canned.

That said, I do extracts in the winter when I can't get outside. I mean...c'mon...I gotta brew.

 

[EdWort]

Going All Grain is a life changing experience. Once you go All Grain, you'll never feel pain.

Actually, the proof is in the results. Life is good!

 

[olllllo]

Some beers are easier to make (and are executed better) using extract.

Here's my analogy:
Bruce Springsteen's Nebraska is probably impossible to improve upon with more instrumentation or studio work. Extract at it's best.

Pet Sounds or The Dark Side of the Moon needed the full palate of studio work, arrangement and instrumentation. All Grain Masterpieces.

Most musicians favor having a full assortment of tools available. They may decide at various points to go minimal, but it depends on what they are trying to accomplish.

 

[Short Drive]

I have yet to do AG but that is my next batch. The biggest reason is to repeat what Dude said, all my beer tasted about the same. The only differences came from the yeast and hops. Oh and I got tired of making brown beer. I would like to control the color more. Plus as a chef I really want to control every aspect of the process. Don't get me wrong brewing from extracts is a good way to start, because you learn the basics. After 9 batches in as many months, I am going to do my first all grain as soon as I can get a day free.

Al

 

[EdWort]

Oh and I got tired of making brown beer. I would like to control the color more.

Ahh, me too. My AG Haus Pale Ale is not brown, but a lovely golden color, and now thanks to a bulk buy, costs less than $8 for a 5 gallon batch.

 

[Yooper]

Ed, that picture makes me thirsty! Great looking beer.

 

[Dude]

I see a little chill haze in there. Try to get that fixed.

I kid....that looks great.

The color issue--I never really had a problem with it because I never brewed a light beer. Most of my pales and IPAs were coppery, and I liked that. Wits and hefes are hard to do right on though.

 

[McKBrew]

Why do I want to start doing all grain?

Answer: A great way to justify to SWMBO that I need more brewing equipment.

I also see the cost advantage, and the pride thing. If I can take the most basic elements of beer and turn them into something drinkable, that's gotta be cool.

 

[banjopicker16]

My opinion is that it is much cheaper, and your control is infinite. It does take more time and equipment, but that obviously pays for itself. When extract is made, it makes all those decisions about water used, mash temperature and effects thereof for you, and thus you cant make what you REALLY want. So making 10 gallons of beer for 15 dollars AG, or making 5 gallons for 20-30 bucks, it really pays off.

Also, its more fun.

 

[uglygoat]

once you go all grain you'll soon want to start growing your owne barley and hops... it's the ability to get in touch with the old art of making beer, dating back thousands of years that i enjoy. sorta like growing your own garden... i like making bread and dough out of flower and water and yeast, and enjoy making pasta sauce outta onions and garlic and tomatos and olive oil.. it's part of my primative desire to make food stuffs.. beer is as important as bread and meat imho

 

[the_bird]

For me, it's a lot more interesting to be able to use malts like Vienna and Munich and melanoidin and all those that need to be mashed. It's control, it's being able to create a unique recipe and have creativity, and it's really not much more difficult than extract once you get the equipment. You just can't dial in flavors with quite the precision when you're working with extract.

 

[Cheesefood]

The reasons I switched over initially were because I felt like allof my extract beers kind of had the same underlying taste. I felt like I was making ragu spaghetti instead of home-made spaghetti.

same reason I went AG. They all have a similar odd taste.

Now I need to get my AG groove on.

 

[user 574]

I really enjoy the process of AG and I agree about that extract similarity in underlying taste.

Downside - Takes longer; Upside - Takes longer (It's MY time ). It's not frantic time though when you get used to the process.

Another Upside - ingredients cost less, downside equipment costs more especially if you're a gadget freak like me but my 1st setup probably cost me $100 and worked just fine.

 

[Orfy]

Because it's the only way to make "Real" Beer.


Anything else is just beer cordial.


(Now I think I just upset all the Extract Brewers)
Oh well what can they do? Call me an EAC?????

 

[Ryanh1801]

I plan to go to all grain after a few extract batches to get the basic process down. I just want to know that I made it from scratch.

 

[Ó Flannagáin]

You can taste the difference... there's no doubt about it.

 

[zoebisch01]

Yup. Pretty much all of the above. Minimally processed ingredients yield the finest products. Plus if you can get good buys on grain you can make 5 gallons for under $10 no sweat (I am talking a big beer, small beers can run $5-$6 if you know how to optimize). Basically a superior product, cheaper and you can really tweak the process! Plus it brings you one step deeper into the whole cycle.

 

[BarryNL]

In calculating the cost saving, how much malted grain equals how much malt extract. E.g. if I can buy 25kg of malted grain for 25 euros and 5kg of malt extract for 28 euros what is 25kg of malted grain the equvalent of in extract?

 

[Yooper]

In calculating the cost saving, how much malted grain equals how much malt extract. E.g. if I can buy 25kg of malted grain for 25 euros and 5kg of malt extract for 28 euros what is 25kg of malted grain the equvalent of in extract?

I'm not very good at math- and I'm not going to try to figure it out right now. But the easiest way to figure cost savings is to find a recipe. Price it out extract and price it AG. There's your cost savings.

 

[BarryNL]

I'm not very good at math- and I'm not going to try to figure it out right now. But the easiest way to figure cost savings is to find a recipe. Price it out extract and price it AG. There's your cost savings.

Well, I guess the easiest way to figure it is to ask how much AG equals how much ME. If a recipe calls for 6lbs of grain roughly how much extract would you use instead?

 

[Yooper]

I used Beersmith to convert the recipe I used yesterday. It used wheat malt and barley malt. So, it converted 8 pounds of grain to 3 lbs 3 oz LME and 2 lbs wheat LME.

For my IPA recipe (bigger beer), I used 8 pounds DME. For the AG version, I used just under 12 pounds of 2-row.

It's easy when you have software to do it for you. But there is info, like this, on the internet to help you figure it out:

The conversion factor is slightly different for liquid extract than for dry extract, but the procedure is the same. For every pound of base malt taken out, you will need to add less than a pound of extract. With syrup extracts, you'll add 0.75 pound for every pound of grain removed. For dry extracts, you'll need 0.6 pound for every pound of grain.

So, for DME, they are saying it equals .6 pound of grain. .75 for LME. There is a chart on this page: http://www.allaboutbeer.com/homebrew/extract.html

 

[Bobby_M]

I did the cost analysis a few days ago and figure on spending about half for all grain base malt. For example, it would take $12 worth of DME or $6 worth of 2-row to get 1.036 in a 5 gallon batch.

Even with that cost savings, it does take probably 20-30 batches to recoup equipment purchases. It's certainly not the only reason to go all grain. I said it before but I think extract brewing is like making instant iced tea. Hey, a lot of people like it, but try serving one to someone down in Savanna Georgia and you'd probably get punched in the face ;-)

 

[Cheesefood]

You really can't go into it as a cost-saving measure unless you get all your equipment for free.

 

[the_bird]

You really can't go into it as a cost-saving measure unless you get all your equipment for free.

Yeah, but it's real nice to walk out of the HBS with all your ingredients and change from a $20, versus $40 - $50 for decent-sized, DME-based batches. It may take a year or two, but I'll get my money back.

 

[zoebisch01]

You really can't go into it as a cost-saving measure unless you get all your equipment for free.

The way I always viewed it was that if I were to continue buying strictly commercial brew I would eventually zero out my equipment cost by not buying it :cross: . It all depends on how much one brews. Since I purchased my equipment (~ $400 or so) I have roughly paid for half (if not more) of the equipment cost in terms of as if I were have purchased brew.

 

[Desert_Sky]

it will eventually pay for itself with money saved.