All grain to extract

[abacab666]

Ok, so I know that it's possible to convert an all grain recipe to extract by replacing the main grain with either LME or DME, but is it really that straight forward? Example. I'm a bit partial to the brewdog beers, and have a copy of the recipe book from their website. The original punk IPA recipe calls for 5.3kg of extra pale. I've seen elsewhere that, for DME, multiply by 0.6 for weight of extract, so is it really as simple as boiling up 3.18kg of DME and adding hops at the relevant times, or am I missing something? All grain isn't an option at the moment for a multitude of reasons, but if I can reproduce something akin to my favourite beers, I'd be well happy

Thanks in advance

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

it's possible to convert an all grain recipe to extract by replacing the main grain with either LME or DME, but is it really that straight forward?

Short answer: it's probably not that simple. The converted recipe will likely be a sweeter and darker than the all-grain version.

Longer answer: I'll update this post with some additional thoughts / questions.

edit: if someone has an extract+steep version of brewdogs punk IPA, would you be willing to post it?

 

[abacab666]

Cheers fella. So shorter boil, or add the DME in batches?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

So shorter boil, or add the DME in batches?

Those are two common options. A mini-mash would be another option.

 

[abacab666]

Those are two common options. A mini-mash would be another option.

Not familiar with that process..?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Not familiar with that process..?

You might know it as a partial mash: https://byo.com/newbrew/partial-mash/. Basically soaking grains (including some base malts) in 150*F-ish water for around 45 minutes.

 

[abacab666]

Ah right. So mash part (half?) of the grain, and substitute the rest for extract?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Ah right. So mash part (half?) of the grain, and substitute the rest for extract?

Published recipes generally mash half and use extract for the rest. With personal recipes, people will often maximize the size of the mini-mash - as they get a better (for their tastes) result.

 

[abacab666]

Published recipes generally mash half and use extract for the rest. With personal recipes, people will often maximize the size of the mini-mash - as they get a better (for their tastes) result.

Maximise? As in more grain, less extract? Sorry to sound thick, but I'm still on the extract kit end of the brewing hobby [emoji13]

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Maximise? As in more grain, less extract?

Yes.

Sorry to sound thick, but I'm still on the extract kit end of the brewing hobby

Learning how to convert brewdog recipes from all grain to extract by asking questions may not be the best approach to move beyond extract+steep kits.

 

[abacab666]

Good point. Picked that recipe cos it's single malt... Start simple then work up to steeping was my theory

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

... going back to the ideas of shorter boils and adding DME in batches.

If one shortens the boil time, that requires adjustments to the hop timings. Late additions of DME (say 1/2 at start of boil and 1/2 at end of the boil) also require adjustments in the hop timings. Most people do this with recipe software. Brewer's Friend is a good choice for many people.

Or brew the recipe with the simple conversion from malt to LME and see how it comes out.

 

[DromJohn]

I'm one of those maximize partial something brewers, up to 6 lbs grain decreased by whole containers of LME, DME only when LME won't work. I've adjusted many recipes, and I've found any darkening and sweetening to be insignificant. IMO, the conversion is that simple.

If using DME, add it late to the boil to keep it lighter.

If I was brewing Punk IPA 2007-2010:

Steep 155F 45 min
3 lbs 14 oz Extra Pale malt

60 Boil
"Start" hops (60 min)
6.6 lb Munton's Extra Light LME
"Middle" hops (15 min)
"End" hops (1 min, "just before knock out")

That's based on 3.3 lb cans of Munton's, then figuring out the the grain.
With DME, using partial bags isn't a big issue, so I'd start with the amount of grains that you want to use, then figure out the DME.

As to the single grain, that's not what makes this a simple recipe. All the hops in the boil makes this simple.
Punk IPA 2010-Current adds 0.25kg Carapils, and that's easy. The dry hopping however, adds new steps and techniques

 

[madscientist451]

I've seen elsewhere that, for DME, multiply by 0.6 for weight of extract, so is it really as simple as boiling up 3.18kg of DME and adding hops at the relevant times, or am I missing something? All grain isn't an option at the moment for a multitude of reasons,

Yeah, its that simple. It won't be the same as brewing with grain, but it will be beer.
If you can boil an extract batch, you can brew with grain, just get a BIAB bag and go for it.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I'm one of those maximize partial something brewers, up to 6 lbs grain decreased by whole containers of LME, DME only when LME won't work. I've adjusted many recipes, and I've found any darkening and sweetening to be insignificant. IMO, the conversion is that simple.

When I read the original question, I saw "is it really that straight forward?" as a direct replacement of the base malts with equivalent LME - and no changes to when things are added during the boil.

What you describe (above) is an excellent approach for converting a recipe. With fresh LME and DME, it's a great way to partial mash.