Alabama Homebrew Legislation 2013

[CGVT]

LOL From the comments:


synic65
We dare defend our rights to be a national laughingstock.

 

[tikibruno]

Long-time listener, first-time caller. A lot of our problem is jackweeds like this:

http://www.myfoxal.com/category/240204/video-landing-page?autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=8643969

 

[aubiecat]

ALCAP's whole stance is weak.
All I see is a bunch of folks who are on the losing end and the only defense they have is the "it's about the kids" argument. They don't have a real world reason other than "it's alcohol". They are protecting the children.
Too bad this, so called, Christian isn't telling lies and half truths to try and make a point. He doesn't want kids to be exposed to alcohol but he doesn't mind showing them how to lie and twist the truth to get their way.

 

[Accidic]

Coincidentally I heard the same line applied to another nameless religious group on the radio when I went to grab lunch yesterday.

 

[Huff360]

Long-time listener, first-time caller. A lot of our problem is jackweeds like this:

http://www.myfoxal.com/category/240204/video-landing-page?autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=8643969

Excellent spot. That's the first I have seen of that one. Seems like the interviewer was pretty tilted in our favor.

 

[CGVT]

I didn't think Mac did as good a job on that one as he usually does. The "Who is going to enforce the limits" question is a good one for the other side and tough to answer.

From their point of view, the people that will make sure that the limits are not exceeded are the homebrewers themselves, and if they are homebrewing now, they are already breaking the law. What would make them follow the new law if they are breaking the old law?

I think our side has done a pretty good job in selling this as a personal freedom issue, and those that are against alcohol in any capacity (ALCAP) will never buy in to it.

Hopefully we have turned enough heads on this. Now if it could just get to a vote.

 

[jhoneycutt]

And it's official, we are the one and only state left where its completely illegal and not at least gonna be legal shortly....

 

[Accidic]

The representative from ALCAP's argument was mediocre at best but frankly after the point where he stated they oppose it JUST BECAUSE it pertains to Alcohol eliminated any validity in his argument from the getgo. Additionally, am I to believe that the man never speeds or breaks any other law? Right now the law in question has not been challenged in court, at least not in recent years. Using Louisiana as an example, homebrewing is recognized as legal because it went to court and the court said it was reasonable and didn't violate federal law and was (at least in part) an invalid application of said law. (I'm going to restrain repeating my father's stated experience with the ALCAP guy (He was forced to work with him in the past) as it doesn't belong here suffice to say the word "Hypocrite" and "Self Righteous" came up quickly and my father is rather anti-alcohol.) Mac's wasn't the best comeback admittedly and I wish he had made it more clear to the general public that might have been watching.

With that in mind, per some of the interpretations I've read of the law that make it "illegal" in Alabama to brew it would make every pot in the ALCAP guy's kitchen (among other things to include fun things like coffee pots...) illegal as well. Would they ever enforce it that way? No, of course not unless they wanted to harass and let's face it... There are more than a few examples of Alabama law being used to harass people be it righteous or otherwise even in the recent past.

 

[Orthobrewsky]

I didn't think Mac did as good a job on that one as he usually does. The "Who is going to enforce the limits" question is a good one for the other side and tough to answer.

From their point of view, the people that will make sure that the limits are not exceeded are the homebrewers themselves, and if they are homebrewing now, they are already breaking the law. What would make them follow the new law if they are breaking the old law?

The "who is going to enforce the limits" question should be an argument not to have such limits. While this law has been a felony with a limit of zero, there has been no interest in enforcing it, so why would there be an interest in enforcing the limits after the current bill becomes law? Indeed, a classic argument against retaining any law has always been the lack of ability or will to enforce it. Having laws which are either not enforced or only rarely enforced creates great unfairness, with special bias against exactly those people who least deserve it.

What limits are really about (at least most other places) is to have some kind of marker which makes it easy to get evidence of an unlicensed commercial operation, not to keep people from getting too much alcohol. "Temperance" seems to be the idea behind our limits, but this is stupid since alcohol is more easily and cheaply obtained without brewing it.

Thus, all ALCAP can accomplish by eliminating homebrewing is seeing to it that commercial brewers are as wealthy as possible. A question with which ALCAP should be confronted is "Are you just trying to make sure that any alcohol consumption which takes place also makes someone wealthy and, if not, then why are you against homebrewing?" Of course, the answer has already been given, though not in a public interview in the following words: "We wish to bring in full prohibition." What they have said--"We oppose all laws favorable to alcohol"--implies it.

 

[alestateyall]

The "who is going to enforce the limits" question should be an argument not to have such limits. While this law has been a felony with a limit of zero, there has been no interest in enforcing it, so why would there be an interest in enforcing the limits after the current bill becomes law? Indeed, a classic argument against retaining any law has always been the lack of ability or will to enforce it. Having laws which are either not enforced or only rarely enforced creates great unfairness, with special bias against exactly those people who least deserve it.

What limits are really about (at least most other places) is to have some kind of marker which makes it easy to get evidence of an unlicensed commercial operation, not to keep people from getting too much alcohol. "Temperance" seems to be the idea behind our limits, but this is stupid since alcohol is more easily and cheaply obtained without brewing it.

Thus, all ALCAP can accomplish by eliminating homebrewing is seeing to it that commercial brewers are as wealthy as possible. A question with which ALCAP should be confronted is "Are you just trying to make sure that any alcohol consumption which takes place also makes someone wealthy and, if not, then why are you against homebrewing?" Of course, the answer has already been given, though not in a public interview in the following words: "We wish to bring in full prohibition." What they have said--"We oppose all laws favorable to alcohol"--implies it.

Very well said.

 

[CGVT]

What limits are really about (at least most other places) is to have some kind of marker which makes it easy to get evidence of an unlicensed commercial operation, not to keep people from getting too much alcohol. "Temperance" seems to be the idea behind our limits, but this is stupid since alcohol is more easily and cheaply obtained without brewing it

Of course it is, but their argument strikes a cord with many in this state.

Don't forget that this is the state that once again elected Roy Moore as Chief Justice and voted a dead man into office simply because he had an "R" next to his name.

Whether we agree with it or not, the church has a very strong hold on politics in this state and ALCAP has the ear of the church.

When they make an argument that can't be or isn't answered, no matter how nonsensical it would appear to a sensible person, it carries some weight.

 

[passedpawn]

Long-time listener, first-time caller. A lot of our problem is jackweeds like this:

http://www.myfoxal.com/category/240204/video-landing-page?autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=8643969

McCutcheon says, when asked why Alabama should allow it, "This is a free country". Right on brother, that's all I needed to hear.

 

[Accidic]

^ Specific churches... And mainly just one overly self righteous one.

For once at least we catholics aren't to blame...

 

[Orthobrewsky]

^ Specific churches... And mainly just one overly self righteous one.

For once at least we catholics aren't to blame...

I think they are actually a tiny minority of the Christians in the state, but the problem is that they are organized through ALCAP to contact their legislators. If you polled the population, I bet we'd have around 95% on our side, but only avid, informed homebrewers are likely to contact their legislators, so a few aberrant religious groups can outnumber us.

People think of Baptists on this, but I was a Baptist until 2007 and know a lot of Baptists. Many of them do some drinking and very few (Southern) Baptists would actually favor prohibition.

Last year I poked around the ALCAP website (yes, I have fun looking at sites on Crank.net too). I think what we are dealing with here are mainly some off-brand Baptist, Presbyterian, and Pentecostal churches. For example, I know that "Independent Baptists" (they despise Southern Baptists) are very anti-alcohol. I wouldn't be surprised if there are a few Southern Baptists and PCA (not PCUSA) Presbyterians in on this, but not the mainstream.

The problem is that if only 2-3% of the population is in an ALCAP connected church, they outnumber home brewers in the state and they are being told it is their Christian duty to contact their representatives. And few homebrewers in the state are connected and organized as are these churches.

Of course, our real problem may be the childish antics of the warring factions in our legislature. Then there is the fact that very few of them would consider this a priority, viewing it as only an issue of personal freedom (so out of fashion) concerning a law which isn't enforced anyway.

 

[Accidic]

"Independent Baptists" are hit or miss. My grandfather converted and most of them that maintain that stance had some family oriented drama that pushed them to that polarized stance.

Won't go into labels for any of the other groups as I'm pretty sure it would degrade into inappropriate jokes. Although in the Pentecostal's defense I know of a local priest in church near our home who homebrews and openly supports this legislation with his congregation. I know this because my Aunt called me to ask questions about it. Nevertheless, I don't believe they're in quite as big a minority as you suggest though but that's just my opinion.

 

[Accidic]

Yikes. Scratch the above... I'm thinking of Episcopalian<sp> rather than Pentecostal. Don't know why I always mix the labels on those but I always have.

 

[Orthobrewsky]

When they make an argument that can't be or isn't answered, no matter how nonsensical it would appear to a sensible person, it carries some weight.

Absolutely. Nonsensical arguments or questions can be the toughest to answer. If you go through several sentences to explain why it is nonsense, you've lost your audience due to short attention spans. One of my frequent job hazards as a professor is the non-sensical, often incoherent questions which are asked publicly. I have to quickly try to guess what the student really wants to know and then attempt to answer it without embarrassing them. Well, I don't have to, but that's the kind of nice guy I am.

Some arguments seem compelling until you dig deeper.

If not for alcohol, we wouldn't have alcoholism. Yes, but how many are actually healthier both physically and mentally due to moderate alcohol consumption? Studies indicate many more than those whose health suffers due to alcoholism.

There are guys who beat their families only when drunk, so it seems that eliminating alcohol would eliminate this abuse. However, alcohol is a tranquilizer so this behavior is not normal. How many guys are kinder to their families because they drink? Probably a lot. It is certainly harder to annoy me if I've got a few beers in me.

 

[Orthobrewsky]

Yikes. Scratch the above... I'm thinking of Episcopalian<sp> rather than Pentecostal. Don't know why I always mix the labels on those but I always have.

Oh yes, we can pretty much count on any liturgical churches to be on our side, but it is unlikely many will be posting Right to Brew materials around church.

I just remember "Baptists" and "Presbyterians" were mentioned on the ALCAP website as being among their associates. I don't think it could be big among Southern Baptists, nor among PCUSA (more liberal) or PCA (conservative) Presbyterians. I have several old friends who are PCA pastors and who also post some beer positive things on Facebook. If drinking were even controversial in PCA, I can't imagine them doing so. I know a little about the more fundamentalist Baptist churches and almost nothing about the more fundamentalist Presbyterian churches, but they do exist and I'm pretty sure they are more likely to go for things like ALCAP. But, as you say, they are a mixed bag--that's why they keep splitting into more and more little denominations.

Whoever they are, they are out there and there are enough to make trouble when they are organized.

 

[catdaddy66]

What's the difference between Baptists and Catholics? (Besides the religious ones...)

Catholics will say "Hi" to you in the liquor store!

Carry on...

 

[bellmtbbq]

And it's official, we are the one and only state left where its completely illegal and not at least gonna be legal shortly....

Kids drink their first beer by the age of nine? What?? Uhh.. maybe a sip from their parents... but seriously? Never heard of binge drinkers under 13 years old

I'm a Presbyterian and homebrew haha

 

[CGVT]

Another issue that comes into play here is the fact that home brewing is illegal and it is hard for most to get vocal about making it legal without drawing attention to the fact that some of us are brewing in direct violation of the law.

If you are fighting to keep it illegal you can make all of the noise that you want without any danger. If you are fighting to legalize it, getting too vocal could actually land you in jail or at the very least jeopardize you livelihood.

 

[BarefootFriar]

Yes. That's definitely true of my job.

 

[Accidic]

Must restrain... Darn you cat... So many catholic/baptist jokes... ¤shakes/restrains¤....

 

[alestateyall]

What's the difference between Baptists and Catholics? (Besides the religious ones...)

Catholics will say "Hi" to you in the liquor store!

Carry on...

Q: Why do you always take 2 Baptists fishing and never just 1?

A: If you take just 1 he'll drink all your beer.

 

[Accidic]

 

[CGVT]

Alabama Home Brewing Bill In Works, But For Now State Is Only To Forbid Making Beer At Home
Posted: 03/22/2013 11:14 am EDT



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If you're in a state where cousins can legally marry each other, but home brewers are forbidden to practice their craft, you must be in Alabama.

Indeed, Alabama now stands out as the only state where home brewing is illegal. Mississippi voted this week to legalize the hobby lager lovers and hopheads in America have enjoyed, even before George Washington and Sam Adams boiled up their first brews.

Alabamans don't just get slapped with a ticket if they start mixing up a batch. It's a felony.

But to a feisty band of Yellowhammer State tipplers, it's ridiculous for the government to meddle with their malt. They won't be satisfied until Alabama has the same rights enjoyed everywhere else in the country.

"This is not about alcohol. This is about civil liberties," said Kraig Torres, owner of Hop City Craft Beer and Wine in Birmingham. "If I went around in Alabama and said, 'you can't have a gun in your house,' I'm pretty sure people would be upset."

Residents who want to buy shotguns, rifles or handguns don't need permits, licenses or registrations. However, it's unclear how regulations apply to gunsmiths who forge firearms in their residences.

Torres lives in Georgia and operates his flagship store there. While he'd like to sell beer-making ingredients and cookbooks in his Birmingham venture, he has gotten into trouble with the Alabama Alcoholic Beverage Control Board.


In September, before he opened Hop City, state agents inspected the store. Torres said they confiscated $7,000 worth of beer-making kits and cookbooks on a follow-up visit. A lawyer for the beverage control board told HuffPost that Torres removed them from the store after he was told they were contraband.

Alabama maintains a fervent temperance movement. It's been 80 years since Prohibition's demise, but there are 25 dry counties in the so-called "Heart of Dixie." Some teetotalers there wish the libations had never started flowing again.

"We're talking about a mind-altering, addictive drug," said Joe Godfrey, a pastor and executive director of ALCAP, a group that opposes loosening any restrictions on alcohol. "This isn't barbecue. People are killed on the highways. You hear all the time about people being killed under the influence of alcohol. You never hear about people getting killed by barbecue."

Torres' experience was a rare instance of the state enforcing the home-brewing ban, according to interviews with home brewers and an Alcoholic Beverage Control Board lawyer. Just this month, however, a prosecutor in Mobile County was disciplined for flouting the home brew restrictions, Al.com reported.

Home-brewing advocates said the felony status scares away some and forces others into the shadows even though the chance of punishment looks slim.

"Home brewers would like to be able to practice their hobby in the open. They have to be fairly secretive," said American Homebrewers Association Director Gary Glass. "It just doesn't make sense that it would be prohibited. Many of the Founding Fathers were home brewers including George Washington and Thomas Jefferson."

Bills to legalize home brewing sit in both houses of the Alabama legislature awaiting a vote. It's the third straight year legislators have proposed changes to the home brew law.

Partisan squabbling on unrelated issues may derail it again, according to observers and local media reports.

"We hope it passes so we can move onto more important business," said Bob Martin, an ABC board lawyer. "We really don't care. It's a hobby. It's not our real concern unless we found out someone was making it and selling it illegally. Generally, we're not going to go into their homes."

If passed, the bills would allow Alabamians to whip up limited quantities of intoxicating drinks like beer and wine. Liquor would remain off-limits. It would also pave the way for tasting events and competitions, advocates told HuffPost.

Home brewing was for outlaws and scofflaws throughout the country as a result of Prohibition until then-President Jimmy Carter signed a federal law decriminalizing the pastime in 1978.

Hobbyists cheered Mississippi Gov. Phil Bryant for ending the state's ban this week.

"I'm going to have a pint with friends at our local bar in town and then open a bottle of home brew at home" to celebrate, said Craig Hendry, president of Raise Your Pints, a group that hired lobbyists to overturn the ban.

"We want to be talked about in a positive light, not as another state that was the last to do something."

Editor's note: To be fair to Alabama, 19 other states allow first cousins to get hitched too, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.

 

[Accidic]

Apparently ALCAP has no issue with marrying your own cousins though eh?

Also, SUGAR is a mind altering addictive drug that can be fatal when consumed too. Kids are pushed to it early and become addicted almost immediately. Where the hell is ALCAP for that one? Oh, my mistake... They're perfectly fine with the original gateway drug.

 

[Huff360]

We are #3 on the proposed SOC for April 2nd.

http://www.legislature.state.al.us/prefiled/calendar.html

Here's to hoping that they make it that far!

 

[alestateyall]

Fingers crossed!

 

[BarefootFriar]

Someone in my county (which is a dry county) got busted with a moonshine still last week. That's exactly the kind of bad press I was hoping we could avoid. Unfortunately, a lot of folks around here see no difference between moonshine stills and homebrew.

On the up side, moonshine has a long and mostly good history around here. I've heard there are operating stills in the national forest, but I don't know for sure -- and don't care to know. So maybe it won't be an issue either way.