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Aeration confusion, questions

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Wingfan13

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Looking around the forum and other sources I see different information. I am wondering if I should not be stirring my wort as it is cooling. I read different things about not stirring so it does not aerate.

Can someone please explain in further detail ? I just assumed I should be stirring my cooling wort to speed up the process and now I fear that I shouldn't have.

Thanks for the help.
 
Well, I've heard of people stirring vigorously while cooling and they never seem to have bad results...although the risk is there.

Personally, I periodically stir the wort very gently (to avoid splashing) while I am cooling it. The goal is that you don't want to aerate the wort until it drops below a certain temperature...70-80 I think (someone correct me if that's wrong, please).
 
Well, you will probably be fine if you are gently stirring it so as not to create any hot side aeration, the cutoff for this is generally 80F, after that you can beat the PI$$ out of it.

Hot side aeration = " Aeration of hot wort will cause the oxygen to chemically bind to various wort compounds. Over time, these compounds will break down, freeing atomic oxygen back into the beer where it can oxidize the alcohols and hop compounds producing off-flavors and aromas like wet cardboard or sherry-like flavors." From Palmers book.
 
Very little oxygen can be absorbed by hot liquid. You can stir and splash the crap out of it, you are wasting your time. O2 just doesn't like bonding with hot water.

Palmer may disagree, but I get my data from NOAA.

If you want to aerate your wort, do so when it's completely cooled.
 
By the way, general consensus for home brewing is that yeast only need oxygen to reproduce, not to ferment. If you make a good yeast starter with liquid yeast (this will require O2), you need no O2 in your wort. If you use dry yeast, you still don't need O2 in your wort because the cell count of the yeast in a dry packet is already 10x more than a liquid vial.
 
HSA is another one of those myths for the homebrewers. And heck, even many commercial breweries debate it's merits.

You'll find that many of us who use immersion chillers begin stirring the wort immediately as well as moving it up and down and creating quite a bit of o2 in there.

HSA, another bogeyman for homebrewers....another thing that made the leap from commercial breweries of tastless lager that has to have a long shelf life and absolutely no flavor (good or bad) otherwise.

Hot-side aeration may be demonstrated in medium and large commercial breweries because the brewing equipment is so big that splashing is a really dramatic event. Think of liquid flowing through a six-inch pipe at 400 gallons per minute and cascading 12 feet through the air before hitting the bottom of a tank. (Maybe, see video below.)

But to the home brewer it's only a bogeyman....

I love the quote about the Basic Brewing experiments on Maltybrew.com

Hot-side aeration…myth?

I listened to a great podcast from Basic Brewing Radio yesterday on hot-side aeration. Everyone seems to debate whether or not this is a concern for homebrewing. The podcast covers an experiment done by some homebrewers in Austin where they try hard to cause HSA in a small batch.

I was never too concerned about HSA in my brewing and now I think I’m even less concerned.

FYI, here are the basic brewing podcasts on it...

March 16, 2006 - Hot Side Aeration
Charles, Chris, James and BrianWe travel to Austin Homebrew Supply in Austin, Texas to taste the results of Brian Warren's experiment in Hot Side Aeration. The experiment produced some very surprising and interesting results.

Click to listen

June 22, 2006 - Two Homebrew Experiments
froth_sm.jpgWe hear from two homebrew experiments: William Tope, a high school student from Houston, Texas, delves into whether alpha acid levels of hops affect fermentation rates, and the Hot Side Aeration experiment continues with Brian Warren and John Holder.

Click to listen

November 2, 2006 - HSA Experiment: Final Chapter
Andy Sparks and James Spencer join Brian Warren and John Holder in Denver to taste the last round of samples in the Hot Side Aeration experiment. We also get feedback about the experiment from John Palmer.

Click to listen

Most of those who "claim" it are brand new brewers who "think" they know somethings wrong with their beer when it usually it's just green beer, and later when they taste their beer again, weeks late they usually come back and say the beer is fine. An equal number have blamed an off flavor on diactly or even autolysis, until we point out certain facts about those different things, and again a few weeks later they usually post their embarrassment at being so freaked out back then.

We're not saying you don't practice good brewing techniques, of any types, just that most of those things that new brewers panic about, that they read about in books is worst case scenario stuff, misunderstood conjecture that has been handed down over the years as "canon" with little or no validity, something that is of more worry to commercial operations or lager breweries, or myths that have been disproven in light of modern brewing science, that was based on OLD brewing info.

And in reality our beer is a lot more resililiant than most new brewers believe, because at their stage of brewing they understand just enough to be dangerous.

It takes a lot of abuse to ruin our beer...and even the "day to day" mistakes that we make is often NOT enough to ruin our beer. Its pretty hardy stuff.

If you read the stories in here, of "mistakes" that people have made here, you will come to realize that a lot of stuff happens in the normal course of brewing, and the beer still manages to survive, so if you make a mistake, you don't need to immedietly panic and assume your beer is ruined.....

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/wh...where-your-beer-still-turned-out-great-96780/

And a lot of stuff can be corrected with time anyway.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/ne...virtue-time-heals-all-things-even-beer-73254/

In years of brewing and in helping panic new brewers I've yet to find cases where it wasn't a false alarm in just about anything any new brewer has claimed, and that is the case for the dreaded HSA, Autolysis, and 99.95% of the new brewer infection threads as well.

I'll save you the bother of searching, but here's a few of those new brewer HSA panic threads...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/hot-side-aeration-so-im-idiot-71873/

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/who-afraid-hsa-76779/

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/hot-side-aeration-71806/

HSA is something that get's discussed by commercial brewers in journals, and some overzealous homebrewer then starts worrying about it, and it get spread into the HOBBY community, with little understanding...and then people brewing thier first beer start threads worrying about it...

So don't sweat your new brewer head about HSA....or anything, you beer is much hardier than you think...

And if you still are worried, then watch this video of a commercial brewhouse...

You think they are concerned about HSA? :D


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3uyKjLTWJA]YouTube - Transferring from Mash Tun to Boil Kettle[/ame]

And you might also note that if HSA WERE really a big issue for homebrewers there would more than likely be hundreds of threads on it like there are on just about everything else on here. But there's not...it tends to be a non-issue, usually just a few panic threads, where the nervous new brewer just assumes because he made a simple mistake, that he is sure that what he read about is happening to him. There are almost no true and in depth discussions about it, with actual experienced brewers and beer judges, of which there are a few hundred on here who can cite instances where they have tasted HSA in beers. It's kind of like bigfoot sightings, you never find any ethnobiologist or zooologists stumbling upon them on their walks and capturing them. :)

Stir away while you are cooling gang...

But after fermentation begins...it's not HSA you need to worry about, it is oxydation...
 
So I am getting ready to bottle. Is it OK to dump from the secondary thorough a strainer or at this point should I not do that ? The thing is, I did a dry hop and there are a lot of particles in the beer. I was trying to think of the easiest way to filter it when moving to the bottling bucket.

I think I am going to try to rubber band a grain bag around the end of my auto-siphon.
 
I gently stir (i.e., no aeration) to create a vortex before I put my wort chiller in and then periodically stir (in the same direction), gently, to ensure the chilling is maximized. Just go easy and make sure that whatever you use to stir with has been sanitized. Brew on.
 
you want to minimize oxygen post-fermentation; dumping your finished beer through a strainer is a bad idea.
 
So I am getting ready to bottle. Is it OK to dump from the secondary thorough a strainer or at this point should I not do that ? The thing is, I did a dry hop and there are a lot of particles in the beer. I was trying to think of the easiest way to filter it when moving to the bottling bucket.

I think I am going to try to rubber band a grain bag around the end of my auto-siphon.

Once fermentation is complete, you need to be gentle...so no dumping. Gentle racking is in order.....
 
HSA is another one of those myths for the homebrewers. And heck, even many commercial breweries debate it's merits.

You'll find that many of us who use immersion chillers begin stirring the wort immediately as well as moving it up and down and creating quite a bit of o2 in there.

HSA, another bogeyman for homebrewers....another thing that made the leap from commercial breweries of tastless lager that has to have a long shelf life and absolutely no flavor (good or bad) otherwise.

Hot-side aeration may be demonstrated in medium and large commercial breweries because the brewing equipment is so big that splashing is a really dramatic event. Think of liquid flowing through a six-inch pipe at 400 gallons per minute and cascading 12 feet through the air before hitting the bottom of a tank. (Maybe, see video below.)

But to the home brewer it's only a bogeyman....

I love the quote about the Basic Brewing experiments on Maltybrew.com



FYI, here are the basic brewing podcasts on it...







Most of those who "claim" it are brand new brewers who "think" they know somethings wrong with their beer when it usually it's just green beer, and later when they taste their beer again, weeks late they usually come back and say the beer is fine. An equal number have blamed an off flavor on diactly or even autolysis, until we point out certain facts about those different things, and again a few weeks later they usually post their embarrassment at being so freaked out back then.

We're not saying you don't practice good brewing techniques, of any types, just that most of those things that new brewers panic about, that they read about in books is worst case scenario stuff, misunderstood conjecture that has been handed down over the years as "canon" with little or no validity, something that is of more worry to commercial operations or lager breweries, or myths that have been disproven in light of modern brewing science, that was based on OLD brewing info.

And in reality our beer is a lot more resililiant than most new brewers believe, because at their stage of brewing they understand just enough to be dangerous.

It takes a lot of abuse to ruin our beer...and even the "day to day" mistakes that we make is often NOT enough to ruin our beer. Its pretty hardy stuff.

If you read the stories in here, of "mistakes" that people have made here, you will come to realize that a lot of stuff happens in the normal course of brewing, and the beer still manages to survive, so if you make a mistake, you don't need to immedietly panic and assume your beer is ruined.....

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/wh...where-your-beer-still-turned-out-great-96780/

And a lot of stuff can be corrected with time anyway.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/ne...virtue-time-heals-all-things-even-beer-73254/

In years of brewing and in helping panic new brewers I've yet to find cases where it wasn't a false alarm in just about anything any new brewer has claimed, and that is the case for the dreaded HSA, Autolysis, and 99.95% of the new brewer infection threads as well.

I'll save you the bother of searching, but here's a few of those new brewer HSA panic threads...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/hot-side-aeration-so-im-idiot-71873/

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/who-afraid-hsa-76779/

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/hot-side-aeration-71806/

HSA is something that get's discussed by commercial brewers in journals, and some overzealous homebrewer then starts worrying about it, and it get spread into the HOBBY community, with little understanding...and then people brewing thier first beer start threads worrying about it...

So don't sweat your new brewer head about HSA....or anything, you beer is much hardier than you think...

And if you still are worried, then watch this video of a commercial brewhouse...

You think they are concerned about HSA? :D


YouTube - Transferring from Mash Tun to Boil Kettle

And you might also note that if HSA WERE really a big issue for homebrewers there would more than likely be hundreds of threads on it like there are on just about everything else on here. But there's not...it tends to be a non-issue, usually just a few panic threads, where the nervous new brewer just assumes because he made a simple mistake, that he is sure that what he read about is happening to him. There are almost no true and in depth discussions about it, with actual experienced brewers and beer judges, of which there are a few hundred on here who can cite instances where they have tasted HSA in beers. It's kind of like bigfoot sightings, you never find any ethnobiologist or zooologists stumbling upon them on their walks and capturing them. :)

Stir away while you are cooling gang...

But after fermentation begins...it's not HSA you need to worry about, it is oxydation...

Damn, thanks. I feel like I owe you money now. I see you are in Michigan. I miss my Michigan beers. Moved south 10 months ago. That is why the beer am talking about is a Two Hearted Ale clone.
 
So I am getting ready to bottle. Is it OK to dump from the secondary thorough a strainer or at this point should I not do that ? The thing is, I did a dry hop and there are a lot of particles in the beer. I was trying to think of the easiest way to filter it when moving to the bottling bucket.

I think I am going to try to rubber band a grain bag around the end of my auto-siphon.

+3 with Revvy and AZ_IPA. After fermentation has completed, you really want to go easy with the beer.

When you rack to the bottling bucket do your best to minimize disturbing the yeast cake and don't slosh the beer into the bottling bucket. Add your chilled priming sugar to the bottling bucket, and then put your siphon hose on the bottom of the bucket so the beer mixes with the sugar and does not get aerated as it fills the bucket.

Don't worry about getting some yeast in your bottles. It will settle and you will learn to decant your delicious brew without getting the yeast on the bottom into your glass.

Enjoy!
 
+3 with Revvy and AZ_IPA. After fermentation has completed, you really want to go easy with the beer.

When you rack to the bottling bucket do your best to minimize disturbing the yeast cake and don't slosh the beer into the bottling bucket. Add your chilled priming sugar to the bottling bucket, and then put your siphon hose on the bottom of the bucket so the beer mixes with the sugar and does not get aerated as it fills the bucket.

Don't worry about getting some yeast in your bottles. It will settle and you will learn to decant your delicious brew without getting the yeast on the bottom into your glass.

Enjoy!

The yeast isn't the issue. It is the dry hopping I did. There is a lot of hop particles floating around and some still on top.
 
The yeast isn't the issue. It is the dry hopping I did. There is a lot of hop particles floating around and some still on top.

I typically wait until the hop particles drop to the bottom before I contemplate bottling (yes even when dry hopping). How long has it been in secondary? Is it otherwise clear?
 
I typically wait until the hop particles drop to the bottom before I contemplate bottling (yes even when dry hopping). How long has it been in secondary? Is it otherwise clear?

Honestly, I am just following the directions. They say to wait 5 to 7 days to bottle. Most of the hops have fallen but there are some stuck on top.
 
The yeast isn't the issue. It is the dry hopping I did. There is a lot of hop particles floating around and some still on top.

Sorry, Wingfan13, I missed that. My bad.

The last time I dry hopped an IPA I just threw the pellets into my secondary and waited for them to saturate and sink to the bottom of the carboy. I 'nudged' this process along a bit by gently (very gently) rocking my carboy to cause a gentle whirlpool effect (operative word here - gently!). After about 7 days all of the hops particles were on the bottom.
 
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