Adding DAP too early

[Dex Pistol]

Howdy. I'm currently on hour 39 of my first cider brew. I'm trying to avoid the dreaded "why hasn't my fermentation started yet?!?!*&@?!?!" post by asking a specific question.

After adding 6 gallons of apple juice (100%+asorbic acid) I added 6 tsp of DAP and 1 packet of EC 1118 (not expired). I did not rehydrate the yeast. I put it in a cool room in the basement (that might be a bit too cold for fermentation to start so I put a space heater in the room which I will remove when fermentation begins. I don't have a thermometer).

Given that information, do you think I added the DAP too early? I know most people say add after 24 hours, but I've read just as many posts saying "just add with the yeast, it will be fine" but... There is no airlock activity after 39 hours and the DAP is my point of concern. I know no bubbles in the airlock doesn't necessarily mean no fermentation but I don't believe there is a leak, the lid is tight, the bung is tight, and the airlock is tight in the bung (tight in the bung is a funny sentence). The bucket is not transparent so if no activity occurs on hour 72 I will remove the bung and take a hydrometer reading.

Would love to hear anyone's thoughts and opinions

 

[Dr_Jeff]

just give it time and leave it be

 

[Dex Pistol]

just give it time and leave it be

Classic answer to the classic question. Cheers. Do you think I should remove the space heater from the room or keep it going until fermentation starts? It's just heating the room to around room temp, it's a very cold basement in Southern Ontario, Canada.

 

[Dr_Jeff]

Either way, if I remember correctly, EC-1118, the lower end of it's range is 52F or 55F degrees.
You know what temperature your space is, and go from there.

A quick Google search reveals - The fermentation characteristics of the EC-1118 — extremely low production of foam, volatile acid and hydrogen sulfide (H2S) — make this strain an excellent choice. This strain ferments well over a very wide temperature range, from 10° to 30°C (50° to 86°F) and demonstrates high osmotic and alcohol tolerance.

 

[Inimicu]

Howdy. I'm currently on hour 39 of my first cider brew. I'm trying to avoid the dreaded "why hasn't my fermentation started yet?!?!*&@?!?!" post by asking a specific question.

After adding 6 gallons of apple juice (100%+asorbic acid) I added 6 tsp of DAP and 1 packet of EC 1118 (not expired). I did not rehydrate the yeast. I put it in a cool room in the basement (that might be a bit too cold for fermentation to start so I put a space heater in the room which I will remove when fermentation begins. I don't have a thermometer).

Given that information, do you think I added the DAP too early? I know most people say add after 24 hours, but I've read just as many posts saying "just add with the yeast, it will be fine" but... There is no airlock activity after 39 hours and the DAP is my point of concern. I know no bubbles in the airlock doesn't necessarily mean no fermentation but I don't believe there is a leak, the lid is tight, the bung is tight, and the airlock is tight in the bung (tight in the bung is a funny sentence). The bucket is not transparent so if no activity occurs on hour 72 I will remove the bung and take a hydrometer reading.

Would love to hear anyone's thoughts and opinions

What ended up happening? I'm in this exact situation right now.

 

[Chalkyt]

Up until this year I added DAP at the start, but after some research I now add it after primary fermentation if I think it is needed. I know there is a bit of debate about primary and secondary fermentation but I like Claude Jolicoeur's take on it by referring to the Turbulent phase rather than Primary (i.e. when the foam vanished gradually)... "there is no set point of transition between the turbulent phase and secondary phase."

In my case I start fermentation in an open bucket (with a loose lid to keep the nasties out). This way I can see what is happening as the foam develops and settles. The CO2 forms a shield from O2, and the foam usually settles around SG 1.030.

The reason for doing this this is so I can rack to a carboy under airlock at "the right time", then add nutrient if it is needed. There is a point of view that there should be plenty of nutrient in juice until the yeast use it all. Nutrient up front sends the yeast into a feeding frenzy, whereas adding it later "spreads the "joy", especially if the cider is becoming nutrient depleted.

So, your cider should start all by itself. I have certainly had slow starts in cold weather (i.e. several days), but find that EC1118 is keen to get going.

How long since you pitched the yeast? I wouldn't worry if it has only been a couple of days. Even if it isn't foaming you should see some "sparkle" on the surface.

 

[Inimicu]

Up until this year I added DAP at the start, but after some research I now add it after primary fermentation if I think it is needed. I know there is a bit of debate about primary and secondary fermentation but I like Claude Jolicoeur's take on it by referring to the Turbulent phase rather than Primary (i.e. when the foam vanished gradually)... "there is no set point of transition between the turbulent phase and secondary phase."

In my case I start fermentation in an open bucket (with a loose lid to keep the nasties out). This way I can see what is happening as the foam develops and settles. The CO2 forms a shield from O2, and the foam usually settles around SG 1.030.

The reason for doing this this is so I can rack to a carboy under airlock at "the right time", then add nutrient if it is needed. There is a point of view that there should be plenty of nutrient in juice until the yeast use it all. Nutrient up front sends the yeast into a feeding frenzy, whereas adding it later "spreads the "joy", especially if the cider is becoming nutrient depleted.

So, your cider should start all by itself. I have certainly had slow starts in cold weather (i.e. several days), but find that EC1118 is keen to get going.

How long since you pitched the yeast? I wouldn't worry if it has only been a couple of days. Even if it isn't foaming you should see some "sparkle" on the surface.

I pitched on Saturday evening, so about 48 hours ago. It's in a 62°F area so slightly cooler than I would typically ferment.

Edit: using 71B instead of EC1118

 

[McMullan]

In terms of nitrogen, apple juice is usually deficient therefore not a good medium to support yeast growth and metabolism. Nitrogen is critical for biological activity. Without adequate nitrogen, the yeast cells struggle to manufacture nucleic acids and proteins. This leads to an extended ‘lag phase’ or even stalled fermentation. A normal lag phase (gene expression and protein production in response to new conditions) among a healthy population of yeast in a nutritious medium is several hours. It’s always advisable to add at least some nitrogen source (e.g, DAP) at the start to increase the level of yeast assimilable nitrogen (YAN). Even if it’s just an insurance policy. It costs very little and does no harm.

Important to note too that dry yeast aren’t necessarily a healthy population when first pitched out of a sachet. The last biochemical ‘memory’ they have is being artificially air dried, not fermenting sweet apple juice. The remaining viable cells often spend the first day or two pulling themselves back together, before showing any signs of activity.