Adding Apple Cider to beer calculus

[dramirezpa]

I was trying to formulate a beer using apple cider.

I was thinking about doing a few lbs of grains and a gallon of cider together into a batch so there is a malt base, a small amount of a really clean hop like saaz of hallertau, and *maybe* some apple flavor (and if not, heck, it was still made with cider

Anyhow, I figured for rough calculations I could put 8 lb of apple cider into beer calculus (since that is roughly the weight of a gal of water), and the ABV jumped from around 3% from my base malts to 11%! I figured this can't be right since people are doing all-cider batches that are coming in at 7%.


Am I "doing it wrong" in beer calculus? Or is it accurate that if I add a gallon of Cider into a 4 gallon boil for a 4 gallon batch that I am going to have a high-grav brew?

Thanks.

 

[dcp27]

what is the OG of the wort without the cider? it should be a simple equation for OG: (3 * wort OG + 1 * cider OG / 4). the fg is a lil more variable but estimating abotu 75% for the wort portion and 100% for the cider, gets you an average of about 81% attenuation.

its a lil unclear from your post, but you shouldnt be boiling the cider if you plan to

 

[trimpy]

Cider is usually around 1.050. If your beer is around this gravity then you probably won't notice much of an overall gravity increase... It can lower your final gravity as it is more fermentable than wort as previously stated.

a 1.050 beer * 3 gallons = 150 points
1.050 cider * 1 gallon = 50 points

200 points / 4 gallons total volume = 50 = 1.050. 81% apparent degree of fermentation = FG around 1.010, whereas w/o cider would be 1.012.

And I second the "don't boil cider" remark. That would cause those pectins to set and make a very cloudy beer. I would add cider to the fermenter and bypass the boil kettle all together.

 

[dramirezpa]

Thanks guys. If I use I unpasteurized cider then how could I keep nasties at bay if I don't boil the cider?

 

[dramirezpa]

Or would you recommend using flash pasteurized cider and just tossing it in as is?

 

[trimpy]

Potassium/Sodium metabisulfite (Campden tablets)

I treat all my fresh pressed, unpasturized cider this way 24 hours before pitching.

 

[dramirezpa]

Thanks. Is pasteurized/no preservative cider safe, or still needs clampdown tabs? Headed to lhbs now.

 

[dramirezpa]

One more noob question if using meta bisulfide, do you need to be converned with killing your primary yeast?

 

[dcp27]

wait 24 hours after adding the campden to pitch and you'll be fine

 

[dramirezpa]

thanks. if my cider is pasteurized, can i just add it without worry? I forgot to add the campden yesterday and really wanted to brew today, d'Oh!

 

[subliminalurge]

thanks. if my cider is pasteurized, can i just add it without worry?

Depends.

I always use fresh, unpasteurized stuff from local orchards, but...

My understanding is that the pasteurization isn't a problem. If you're getting store bought stuff, though, read the label VERY thoroughly! If there are preservatives added, there's a potential that they might prevent your yeast from doing their job.

Anyway, that's the nitty-gritty of what I came away with after doing a lot of reading up on the subject a few years ago.

 

[dramirezpa]

Thanks, more specifically though, my question is: it's it safe to add fresh, local, preservative-free, pasteurized cider directly to the wort after boiling and before pitching yeast? Or do I need to sterilize with campden tabs and wait 24 hours?

 

[subliminalurge]

I've made 3 batches using local, UN-pasteurized and preservative free cider. Dumped it right into the primary, no campden or any other special precautions. All 3 came out great.

The campden isn't a bad idea, though, just as a safeguard. But even if you skip it, apple juice or cider is pretty acidic. Fairly short list of nasties that could be living in there, I would think.