A question about sparging and grainbed

[Extralike]

Hey,
Kind of new to all grain, still getting the hang of it. So I read some instructions on how to mash and I got confused: Some people told me to mash, get the first runnings, then, when the water runs out, put the sparge water, wait about 10 minuets and start the process of geting the second runnings.

My question is - other people seem to think the grainbed should never run out of water so there should always be an inch of water on top of it. So, should I let the grainbed run dry or not? I'm a little confused and would love clerification.

 

[Touristbob]

Hey,
depends on if you batch sparge or fly sparge. I batch sparge by taking the first running (letting the mash tun run dry) then add about half of the water I'm going to finish collecting, stir, wait 10 mins, vorloff and collect. Repeat that with the remaining water to get enough to boil. I usually see how much I get from the first runnings so I know how much I'm going to use to sparge with. Fly sparging is done by draining the mash tun at the same rate as you fill it from your HLT. Keeping an inch or so of water above the grain bed while you sparge. Both methods work but personally I prefer batch sparging as I believe its easier and for me a little quicker.

 

[Extralike]

Great explanation thanks (-: Sounds like I was doing fly sparging, but since I've been getting low gravity I think i'll give batch sparging a try then.

 

[wmubronco]

I've been fly sparging for some time now. I'm no expert, but here is my take;

After about an hour to hour-twenty, I check the conversion with the good 'ol iodine test for added confirmation. I have noticed at the hour mark, I need a little more time for the mash to do its thing. That is why I have been going an extra 15-30 when mashing. When I get the green light for conversion complete, I strike with 2 gallons of boiling hot water to stop all conversions and to prevent unwanted fermantables in the wort.

Then I vorloff, cycling about 1/2 to 2 gallons (depending how clear the wort in running from mash tun) back into the top of the mash/grain bed. When wort looks to start running clear (no particles floating in drainage), I set a steady flow to collect the wort, while keeping an eye on the water level above the grain bed (about an inch above should be good to start). I've let mine drop before when not paying attention, but as long as you get the hot sparge water back above the top of the bed, you will be fine. For fly sparging, and my sake, this process of collecting the wort into the boil kettle usually takes a good hour. I've impatiently done this in the past in record time and my numbers (gravity) were WAAAAYYYY off. Slow it down, have a home brew, and you will be happy with the results.

Sparging water temperature should be held constant along with your grain bed temp. These are an important part of the whole process as well. When I started all grain, my brewhouse efficiency was 65%. My numbers now are in the 70s. It's all about controlling the variables and knowing your equipment.

Hope this helps, good luck and happy brewing!

 

[Extralike]

Ok, so my problem was probably draining too quickly. I've been opening the valve half way through, so I will try to open it even less, what's what people mean by draining slowly right?

The tip with the extra time to mash is another good one, will try that too, thanks!

 

[porterpounder]

Fly sparging takes a bit more finesse at first (and a pump or gravity set-up), but once it's part of your routine it's simple. Keep about an inch of water above the grain bed. Batch sparging is more simple. Some will say you should get efficiency as good with batch as fly sparging, but I have only seen it come close on lower gravity beers. I like fly sparging because I feel like things just move along without interruptions and I like to set things up then sit back and watch it happen. No extra work. Very lazy where sparging is concerned.

 

[feinbera]

Did you mash out with boiling water, and make sure your sparge water was heated to around 170°? There's a reason the old cliché goes "slow as molasses in January" – sugars don't like to move as they cool off! Keeping your temps up should improve your numbers, whether you batch or fly sparge.

 

[wmubronco]

Extralike,

There's no rule of thumb, but I recently read about 1L per 1 minute when collecting wort. I have never really taken this measurement (although I may try next batch), but collecting 7.5 gallons of wort for a 5.5 gallon batch, takes a good hour and some change at my flow rate. I made a mark on my valve as to know the same setting each and every time I brew.

In regards to feinbara's comments about keeping your temps up, yes, DO IT! In the past I thought I was good with my sparge water at the 165degrees, however slowly over time my rectangular mash tun was steadily losing temperature. I now keep my sparge water between 170-175, and make sure my grain bed remains constant during the entire process. This made an impact on my efficiency. There's still room for improvement and I will only improve from here on out.

Just noticed you're in Tel Aviv, I have been there (Nazareth) before for work, visiting the Jeep assembly plant for the IDF... great place! Never got a chance to experience the nightlife in Tel Aviv.

 

[Extralike]

Extralike,
Just noticed you're in Tel Aviv, I have been there (Nazareth) before for work, visiting the Jeep assembly plant for the IDF... great place! Never got a chance to experience the nightlife in Tel Aviv.

Thanks, it's too bad you didn't experiance the nightlife in Israel but I'm glad you enjoyed your time in Israel.
Homebrewing is becoming more popular in here as well as craft beer, but it's still hard to find knowlagable people which is why this forum is very helpfull to me, but at least two people who found out I'm brewing beer got equipment and joined the fun so hopefully we will have a homebrewing culture as developed as in the states one day!

 

[wmubronco]

Thanks, it's too bad you didn't experiance the nightlife in Israel but I'm glad you enjoyed your time in Israel.
Homebrewing is becoming more popular in here as well as craft beer, but it's still hard to find knowlagable people which is why this forum is very helpfull to me, but at least two people who found out I'm brewing beer got equipment and joined the fun so hopefully we will have a homebrewing culture as developed as in the states one day!

We should open a brewery in Tel Aviv!!

 

[Extralike]

Hey, just wanted to say I did as you guys told me and just checked the final gravity. Got it right where the recipie said it should be.

Who knew it was so easy? It was all about draining REALLY slowly and increasing the mash time to 90 mins! Thanks a lot you guys.

 

[wmubronco]

That is great to hear! Mash grainbed temp and sparging water temp should also be held as constant as possible.

Good luck on the future brews!!!

 

[adarelme]

We should open a brewery in Tel Aviv!!

I would come and help as I still have my Israeli Passport.


L'chaim

 

[splyn]

i do a modified fly sparge with great results and requires no extra equipment, except for aluminum foil.

At the end of the mash, i open the MLT and put some aluminum foil over the mash (inside the MLT) and make sure the entire surface of the mash is covered. I then take my thermometer (simple bi betal therm with a long pointy probe end) and poke lots of holes in the aluminum foil. Then i begin to vourlaf. The foil with holes in it allows fluid to drain through without disturbing the grain bed.

when the vourlaf is completed, i open the outlet valve on the MLT to allow the wort to drain slowly and i use a pitcher to start adding my sparge water to the MLT (i pour slowly, but he foil should keep most of the turbulence away from the grain bed), keeping the level about an inch or two above the grain bed. when i run out of sparge water, i simply let the MLT finish draining, or stop draining when my desired pre-boil volume is met.

I usually need to top up the temp of my sparge water a couple times water to keep it at the proper temp as i dont really have a HLT.

some may argue that the sparge water flowing through the holes in the foil will promote channeling of fluid through the grain bed, but i have not seen any issues with this as my efficiency is usually above 80%.

 

[wmubronco]

i do a modified fly sparge with great results and requires no extra equipment, except for aluminum foil.

At the end of the mash, i open the MLT and put some aluminum foil over the mash (inside the MLT) and make sure the entire surface of the mash is covered. I then take my thermometer (simple bi betal therm with a long pointy probe end) and poke lots of holes in the aluminum foil. Then i begin to vourlaf. The foil with holes in it allows fluid to drain through without disturbing the grain bed.

when the vourlaf is completed, i open the outlet valve on the MLT to allow the wort to drain slowly and i use a pitcher to start adding my sparge water to the MLT (i pour slowly, but he foil should keep most of the turbulence away from the grain bed), keeping the level about an inch or two above the grain bed. when i run out of sparge water, i simply let the MLT finish draining, or stop draining when my desired pre-boil volume is met.

I usually need to top up the temp of my sparge water a couple times water to keep it at the proper temp as i dont really have a HLT.

some may argue that the sparge water flowing through the holes in the foil will promote channeling of fluid through the grain bed, but i have not seen any issues with this as my efficiency is usually above 80%.

May give the foil a try next batch. I pour fairly slowly over the top of the grain bed as in, and around the edges of the rectangular mash cooler. I see a little disturbance to the bed, but nothing comparable to giving in the huge stir with spoon.

What effects could possibly happen in my case where there's little disturbance to just the top of the grain bed?