A couple questions from new brewer

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trevlyn13

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I've recently taken an interest in homebrewing, and I have a couple questions. First of all, how much can you vary the taste of homebrewed beer? I would imagine the range would be pretty wide. My main concern is that I really dislike traditional store-bought beers like budweiser and the like, but I would imagine that you could homebrew something much more pleasant. Would it be possible to do something such as make coconut flavored beer? I do like liquors, but the strength is sometimes too much for casual drinking.

Second, is it possible to homebrew vodka, or is that beyond the abilities of an average brewer? I took enough college chemistry to understand the basic process, but I'm not exactly sure how vodka works. I know that real liquors like rum and schnapps would be pretty much impossible to homebrew, but where does vodka fit into the mix? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
Yes my friend you can make beer to your own taste and strength requirements.
There are somethings that may not work too well if you add it at the start of the brew or the taste may get lost. You can always add them at the end of the brew. I can't see a reason why you can't make beer with coconut in it!
As for the strength of beer you can easily make beer with a range of around 2% up to 10%
You can also alter the sweetness and the body of the finished beer to suite your taste.

Vodka. While true vodka requires a still you can brew a high alcohol vodka style liquor type drink (Special yeast is required) I've never tried but there are plenty who do. ( I believe you can get away with just a 2.5 gallon bucket for this)

If you are starting brewing you need to decide at what level you want to start and your budget. Keep in mind if you start with cheap equipment and you progress then you'll end up wasting some of the money you spent. So it is better to get the better equipment to start.
Most peole start (and a lot stay) with extract brewing. A pretty standard set of a equipment for this would be a pot big enought to boil around 2 gallon of water. A 6.5 gallon glass carboy, a 5 gallon plastic fermenting bucket and enough bottles. If you want to save money and time you could forgo the glass carboy and stick with one or two plastic buckets with lids, bungs and airlocks. Apart from that you should try and get a thermometer, a hydrometer and some syphoning tube.

It is very difficult to make beer that does not taste better than store bough mass produced stuff. :D
 
theres a huge range of styles you can make, and almost sounds like you might want to try making mead or braggot, which you can do with standard homebrewing equipment and the ingredients at the homebrew supply store. anything a microbrewery can brew...you can too, and doesnt take long to get pretty good at it.
 
You cannot make vodka without distillation. Whether this process is legal in your area or not is up to you.

Fermenting sugars produced through a mash process is brewing.
Brewing is legal almost everywhere.
Distilling is not.
 
My goal is to make a drink that is about 10% abv and that is not bitter. The "fuzzier" the better, as well. Something that is a pleasure to drink, which most beer definitely is NOT. So if I'm making a drink by fermenting sugars, I assume that what sugars I use alter the taste? Also, not taking equipment into account, how much does a batch of decent brew end up costing, in terms of price per bottle or liter?
 
In the uk it costs me from 30p to 80p a litre.
At 10% I'm guessing you're on th limit of standard ale yeasts.

I'd try standard kits before playing around. If you mess up on the first batch it will spoil the esxperience.
 
trevlyn13-

You stated that most beer is NOT pleasurable to drink, but in your first post you only referenced "budweiser and the like". Have you exposed your tastebuds to the full range of beer styles? If storebought lager (i.e. bud/coors/miller/etc.) is all you've tried then I can't blame you for not being impressed. If you have tried a broad selection of microbrewed ales and you're still dissatisfied with the taste of beer then I would recommend not spending your money on homebrewing. As orfy previously posted, if you go cheap on the equipment/ingredients you'll only continue to be disappointed with beer. But if you like microbrewed ales and want make a reasonable investment in equipment and ingredients you can make custom beer to suit any taste you like.

Before I started brewing I read "Homebrewing for Dummies" (Amazon $13.59) and it answered all my questions about the brewing process, types of equipment needed for beginner/intermediate/advanced, ingredients, etc. I highly recommend it.

If you live in the U.S. distilling vodka is illegal without proper licensing. But that Schmirnoff Ice stuff, for example, is a malted beverage and actually contains no vodka. I don't know how it's produced but if that's what you're in to and that's what you mean by something "fuzzier" then, as a malted beverage, it would be perfectly legal for you to attempt to reproduce it.

How much does it cost? The extract kits I buy range from $25 - $30 and I live in BFE so I end up paying about $10 shipping. Factor in a couple bucks for ice (I don't have wort chiller yet) and propane and I average about $0.75 per 12oz. bottle. From what I've read on other threads regarding cost per beer, I'm at the high end of the cost spectrum. I've seen some all-grain brewers who buy grain/hops in volume and reuse yeast boast as little as $0.25 or $0.30 per bottle.

Have fun if decide to get into it!

AHU
 
Brewing beer is very different from making grain alcohol. What you get with a still (pot, reflux, or other) is grain alcohol (ethanol) which is, I think, pretty much vodka.. you can run your car on it. You create an alcohol through fermentation (like beer) but the alcohol contains both methyl as well ethyl alcohol. Because methyl alcohol is toxic (causes blindness as well as death) you use a still to seperate the good alcohol from the bad. Because I prefer flavored alcohols that do not taste like medicine (tequila, rum, and.. yum.. bourbon wiskey - Jim Beam anyone?) I've never bothered with distillation. Of course, distilling alcohol is also ILLEGAL here.. so that factors in aswell.

Beer making is a very simple process... but it can, if you want, become quite complex. If you are doing all grain batches with decoction mashes it can become somewhat complex...

Surprisingly, the clydesdale piss they sell in the supermarkets is a fairly difficult beer to make. For one, such a clean, flavorless beer leaves no room for off flavors to hide. Second, those beers are lagers which require extended storage/fermenting at cold temperatures (lagering) - most of us don't have space or money for a lagerin chest/fridge. Most of us make ales. Ales include everything from pale ales (like sierra nevada pale ale, liberty pale ale, etc) to cream ales (also light in color but not nearly as bitter - bittersweet actually and they contain corn typically) to porters (yuengling porter, black and tan has similar profile) to stouts (sweet stouts like mackeson, dry stouts like guiness, coffee stouts, oatmeal stouts, etc.). Oh, and don't forget wheat beers.. those are very popular as of late - blue moon, tucher, etc. There are smoked beers and fruit beers (I hear apricot is good BTW). A good pumpkin beer with some of those pumpkin pie spices is great also (try shipyard ale's pumpkinhead brew). Especially if you're an all grain brewer then the possibilities are endless.

In terms of abv, english milds are 3% while imperial stouts are 8-10% abv. Barely wines are upwards of 10% as well. As someone else mentioned you can also use your beer equipment to make mead (honey based alcohol - I hear it's absolutely incredible but haven't had any yet as it takes serious aging to develop and I can't wait 2+ years to drink my product!). Braggot is a mixture of mead and beer and I hear it is also quite tasty.

Careful though, this is an addictive hobby.. you may start with extract brews as I did but you'll soon be doing all grain brews and dreaming of kegging equipment as I am now.

For a good, free, info try palmer's "how to brew" It's also available in paper.. but the online version is free. www.howtobrew.com it's a good read for beginner and expert alike. Also, check out your local homebrew shop for the proper equipment. You can get a very basic brew kit with everything you need to get started for under $80.
 
I think the greatest problem with home brewing is the amount of trials to find the "ideal beer." Tastes are often limited to the major beers and maybe a small sampling of import and microbrews. Takes a while to home in on the right recipes. Looking back there have beeen disappointments, but never a truly bad batch. One really noticable thing is my increased craving of hops since I first started.

I use honey in most of my brews and avoid using cane sugar. If using honey, best to really load up in bulk. I get 20 gallons at a time and a pretty good price between $2.12 and $2.65 per gallon depending on the type from a local apiary. It' s raw, a bit waxy and unfiltered etc but great for brewing. Honey is about as close as I get to adding fruit, I really like blackberry honey.
 
I've drank a view of the microbrewed beers/ales, and I did enjoy those. The problem is, I live in Utah so it's basically impossible to get anything other than liquor that is above 3.2 abv. My goal is to ultimately set up a brewing process where I can produce something drinkable at about $.25 a bottle, at about 8-10% abv. I'm not doing it so much for the art and craft of it, but for the ability to customize and mass produce alcohol. How much am I looking at for starting costs if I want to go mid-high range equipment?
 
trevlyn13 said:
How much am I looking at for starting costs if I want to go mid-high range equipment?


If you are looking to keep costs down, you'll want to go all grain instead of extract, but there's a big window there for mid-high range gear.

Anywhere from several hundred (mid range) to several thousand (high end) $'s.

-walker
 
Genghis77 said:
Or go right to the farmer and purchase grain straight from the silo, can't get much cheaper than that. I think we are talking tons here.

I've got a farmer friend offer it me for free but I don't fancy starting a malt house.
 
you need to try a 10% alcohol beer before you try and brew one. besides the fact that higher gravity ales can be complicated, the taste is something that someone who says they don't enjoy beer probably won't like. that said its a fun and relatively easy hobby, but i don't know that wanting to mass-produce cheap high abv beer is a very good motive. i would try and find a barleywine or imperial stout somewhere before you waste your time or money on homebrewing.
 
Mikey said:
You cannot make vodka without distillation. Whether this process is legal in your area or not is up to you.
Actually, whether the process is legal or not in your area has nothing to do with the individual, but with the law in that area. It is up to the individual to obey or not obey the law, but not to MAKE the law.
 
Genghis77 said:
I think the greatest problem with home brewing is the amount of trials to find the "ideal beer." Tastes are often limited to the major beers and maybe a small sampling of import and microbrews. Takes a while to home in on the right recipes. Looking back there have beeen disappointments, but never a truly bad batch. One really noticable thing is my increased craving of hops since I first started.

I think you will also find this to be the case - I know I have. I have yet to find my upper limit on hoppiness, each batch I go higher than the last, and it only seems to taste better.

About the only beer that really approaches the overall delicious-ness of my own brews is maybe Paulaner Hefeweizen - it's darn sure not a Bud! I started down this path a year ago, have made maybe ten batches and I can count on one hand the number of commercial beers I drank in my house since I cracked open my first bottle.

Edit - oops - forgot something - I did buy a case of Stoudt's Red Head Ale because I needed bottles and I liked the ones that it comes in. A fine brew but still not the equal of my own.

Home brewed beers are like sex - even the worst is great!
 
Het trevlyn13 -

Back to your question about cost of equipment. Walker is correct that going all-grain will definitely lower the cost per beer. But it's my understanding that the all-grain process is more complicated and more time consuming than extract brewing. If you're serious about getting into the hobby, I would recommend doing at least a few extract batches first just to get familiar with the basic brewing process before diving into all-grain. I've brewed several batches of extract and still learn something new every time. I'll get to all-grain some day but I want to get there gradually. I worry that if you jump into all-grain right off the bat you might become frustrated and disillusioned with the whole thing. You might not be doing it "for the art and craft" but you should at least have fun doing it.

If you buy an intermediate extract kit you'll be able to use most (or all) of that equipment still when you get to all grain - you'll just be adding more equipment to the process. So it's not like you have to scrap it and start from scratch. I bought an intermediate kit from Midwest Supplies (www.midwestsupplies.com) along with 5 gal. brew kettle, some bottles, and a recipe kit for a little more than $200. (Remember, I live in BFE so shipping cost is substantial for me.)

But before you go out and buy this stuff you really should study up on the whole brewing process. There is a different thread on this forum that several people (including myself) have posted to about how much studying and prep we did before our first batches but there was still a lot we didn't know on first brew day.

Finally, I agree with drengel that you should try a 10% beer before you endeavor to brew it. Definitely an acquired taste . . .

My condolences on living in 3.2 Utah. I was in Colorado for my first time a few months ago and didn't know that you had to go to a liquor store to get beer that was above 3.2 (or a bottle of wine, for that matter). My wife and I walked into a grocery and found a little tiny cooler with about 3 different types of lager in it and finally a store clerk said it's all "three-two beer". Huh? Fortuneately I live in Oregon and the selection of microbrews available at the grocery store is pretty amazing - even in BFE.

AHU
 
SteveM-

Ever tried Dogfishhead 120 Minute Imperial IPA? I thought I was like you but the hoppines of that beer tested my will. It was a $9 bottle of beer so I drank it, but I don't think I'll go down that road again. Possibly best served with a spoon . . .

AHU
 
AllHoppedUp said:
Het trevlyn13 -

My condolences on living in 3.2 Utah. I was in Colorado for my first time a few months ago and didn't know that you had to go to a liquor store to get beer that was above 3.2 (or a bottle of wine, for that matter). My wife and I walked into a grocery and found a little tiny cooler with about 3 different types of lager in it and finally a store clerk said it's all "three-two beer". Huh? Fortuneately I live in Oregon and the selection of microbrews available at the grocery store is pretty amazing - even in BFE.

AHU

the thing is you can go into a liquor store and they have a better beer selection than most stores in other places . even at the small ones. i've told many a tourist about the 3.2 law in grocery stores, hopefully other people that live here and see people perusing the beer selection at the grocery store do the same. when i'm in texas i go into the store with the 'best' selection around and its no better than the average liquor store here, with the exception of a large quantity of imports. when you live in a place with a huge amount of micros, like CO or the pacific northwest its hard to not find something you want in any liquor store.
 
I don't recall any liquor stores in Oregon or Washington that I've been to in the last 10 years that stock any beer at all. They're all liquor and wine. I may have overlooked the beer since I was there to buy booze, but if there's any there they must be very small displays. Probably a result of the good selection in the grocery store . . .

AHU
 
An interesting subject Trev-13,


I prefer beer or ale to the 'hard stuff', anyway.
and it sounds real dangerous what with that methanol in there too.
Bad stuff it is,
beer and ale is good enought for me.
I love it.
But...

It is fun to think about being a moonshiner
like Robert Mitchum and his dad.
Remember thunder road?
The cops killed him for running 'shine.'
They couldn't catch him.
So they simply murdered him.
Our government.
Its about time we changed some laws.
Don't ya'll think?



http://www.moonshine-still.com/page2.htm


'Thunder was his engine and white lightnin was his load.'



Mr. 'X'
 
Recently there was some controversy about taking wine coolers and malt beverages off the shelves of some Oregon stores. The reason was the alcohol content was too high and could only be sold in the liquor stores. But, I really don't know what the cut off point is supposed to be. I can get up to about 9% right at the grocery.
 
Hmmm . . . I bought Dogfish Head 120 Min. IPA at a non-liquor store in Oregon it is claimed by the brewer to 21% ABV. It wasn't a grocery store but a micro-brew specialty store. Beers from around the world kinda thing. I doubt they had a license to sell liquor but I could be wrong.

AHU
 
AllHoppedUp said:
Hmmm . . . I bought Dogfish Head 120 Min. IPA at a non-liquor store in Oregon it is claimed by the brewer to 21% ABV. It wasn't a grocery store but a micro-brew specialty store. Beers from around the world kinda thing. I doubt they had a license to sell liquor but I could be wrong.

AHU
Who knows how the laws vary from locale to locale, but perhaps Oregon distinguishes distilled beverages and since DF120 isn't distilled they were allowed to sell it? :confused:
 
drengel said:
the thing is you can go into a liquor store and they have a better beer selection than most stores in other places . even at the small ones. i've told many a tourist about the 3.2 law in grocery stores, hopefully other people that live here and see people perusing the beer selection at the grocery store do the same. when i'm in texas i go into the store with the 'best' selection around and its no better than the average liquor store here, with the exception of a large quantity of imports. when you live in a place with a huge amount of micros, like CO or the pacific northwest its hard to not find something you want in any liquor store.

Why on earth are crying over no beer in grocery stores? Here in Canada there are two places to buy drinks. The beer store, and the Liquer Control Board. Now if we could by more than non alcaholic beer maybe I would understand but 3.2 percent thats great to what we have hear.
 
burningrockets said:
Why on earth are crying over no beer in grocery stores? Here in Canada there are two places to buy drinks. The beer store, and the Liquer Control Board. Now if we could by more than non alcaholic beer maybe I would understand but 3.2 percent thats great to what we have hear.

Ha ha! That reminds me of a funny story. When I was 18 I went to Whistler, BC with some college friends and we were unaware that you couldn't buy beer at the grocery store. I didn't recognize any of the labels so I just assumed they must be Canadian brands. We bought a bunch of this non-alcoholic beer and went back to drink it at our hotel. Eventually we figured it out, bought some real beer at the liquor store, and gave the non-beer to a bunch of girls that were with us. We didn't tell them it was non-alcoholic but after drinking a few they started acting all silly anyway - like typical drunken 18-year-old sorority chicks. When the non-beer was gone we told them what we did . . . they didn't find it nearly as funny as we did. Ha ha - my friends and I still laugh about that story from time to time!

AHU
 
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