5-15 gal eBIAB system + brewery build

[BurntOrngeLonghorn84]

I hope you find imitation as the sincerest form of flattery, great job!

 

[FreddyMar3]

Thanks guys! Glad someone else could benefit from this thread/design.

 

[andrewmaixner]

What exactly is that a picture of?

 

[FreddyMar3]

What exactly is that a picture of?

That is a picture of boiling wort recirculating into a muslin bag filled with hops via silicone tubing and a perforated copper tube. I do the same thing during a hop stand. the muslin bag hangs from that stainless funnel.

 

[Lakewoodbrewing]

Would you consider doing a video in process? Although new to the forum officially I've crawled on here for the last few years. What you've created/working in is exactly what I'd like to replicate.

 

[FreddyMar3]

I will give it a shot with the next brew. Glad you like it!

 

[FreddyMar3]

Prepping for my first 15 gal brew on this system on Wednesday. 15 gal of kolsch split btwn wlp029 and wyeast 1007 View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1462243480.271684.jpg


Batch will use about 33lbs of grain.

 

[FunCat1828]

Looking forward to hearing the results of your brew session... I just stumbled into here as I was trying to work out the 5,10 or 15 gallon problem that you already solved!

 

[FreddyMar3]

Alright so I pretty much maxed this out. 33lbs grain and 20.5 gal of water. I had to withhold 6 gal to sparge in order for the mash to fit.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1462421573.839729.jpg

My sparge arm was submerged but had no issues. It's cool how the center of the mash is somewhat cavitated from the center out infusion when I lift the basket. Let's me Know the down tube is working. I used a watering pale to sparge. Worked pretty well but I'm convinced there's still a better way.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1462421548.830534.jpg

The boil was dangerously close to the top during boil detect but a full dropper of fermcap kept things in check.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1462421653.945534.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1462421669.071514.jpg

Ended up with exactly 16.5 gal split btwn 3 fermenters.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1462421721.847873.jpg

Only thing off today was my efficiency which was actually 11 pts high with less squeezing than I normally do. I got a new grain mill and the crush is much better (MM3 instead of Captain crush) oh well. Guess this will be a boozy kolsch.

2 more brews on the schedule for this year should test the last unknowns for this system. 5 and 10 gal batches of RIS. The 5 will test of large amounts of grain can be covered in a small batch and the ten will test the the kettle capacity on a high gravity beer.

More to come on that.

 

[andrewmaixner]

Alright so I pretty much maxed this out. 33lbs grain and 20.5 gal of water. I had to withhold 6 gal to sparge in order for the mash to fit.
...
Ended up with exactly 16.5 gal split btwn 3 fermenters.

Only thing off today was my efficiency which was actually 11 pts high with less squeezing than I normally do. I got a new grain mill and the crush is much better (MM3 instead of Captain crush) oh well. Guess this will be a boozy kolsch.

Great write-up. Was this the first time you have gone with less than full-volume on this system, and therefor the first sparge on it? That could account for your mash efficiency bump also. What did you set your crush at?

2 more brews on the schedule for this year should test the last unknowns for this system. 5 and 10 gal batches of RIS. The 5 will test of large amounts of grain can be covered in a small batch and the ten will test the the kettle capacity on a high gravity beer.
More to come on that.

Looking forward to hearing the numbers on that! I'm very close to deciding exactly which system to assemble.
Do you plan to do them soon, or not for a while?

 

[FreddyMar3]

Great write-up. Was this the first time you have gone with less than full-volume on this system, and therefor the first sparge on it? That could account for your mash efficiency bump also. What did you set your crush at?

When I did the 10 gallon of oatmeal stout ( I think 27lbs of grain), I withheld maybe a gallon or less and poured it over the top with the pitcher. definitely didn't get as thorough as a rinse as i did with this latest batch though. Maybe the sparge is the difference.

Mill is set at .035. The captain crush would let a lot of whole kernels slip through, so maybe that also had something to do with it.

Looking forward to hearing the numbers on that! I'm very close to deciding exactly which system to assemble.
Do you plan to do them soon, or not for a while?

The 5 gallons of RIS is my next batch. I think it has somewhere in the area of 25lbs of grain. The 10 gallon is for a club barrel brew that hasn't been fleshed out yet, so that could be a while.

 

[FunCat1828]

Very nice! Almost ready to pull the trigger myself on the kettle and having arbor create a basket for me.... You recommended a 1/4 less diameter and a 1/4 inch more for the feet.

I take it that you are super close to the element and the sensor with the basket you have then?

 

[FreddyMar3]

Very nice! Almost ready to pull the trigger myself on the kettle and having arbor create a basket for me.... You recommended a 1/4 less diameter and a 1/4 inch more for the feet.

I take it that you are super close to the element and the sensor with the basket you have then?

Thanks! It's not the element so much as the dip tube. There is maybe a micron between the basket and the dip tube. Fortunately on mine it doesn't touch, but if they are off by even a little bit, it could rest on the diptube.

The element and thermowell have plenty of space beneath the basket.

 

[FreddyMar3]

So I brewed the RIS last night. 24 lbs of grains + rice hulls. I miscalculated my volumes somehow and ended up with an extra 1.5G of wort. Achieved 69% efficiency with a 0.5 gallon quick sparge. I only did a 45 minute boil so I could have upped that a bit to get the volume down but instead just added some DME to make up for the excess volume.

The mash was thick, but i think i could have gotten away with the correct volume of water and not have it be TOO thick.

I think 10 gallons of RIS would be pretty difficult to pull off. 8 shouldn't be a problem. I'll have to do some thinking before I fire up a 46lb of grain batch....

 

[swimIan]

So I brewed the RIS last night. 24 lbs of grains + rice hulls. I miscalculated my volumes somehow and ended up with an extra 1.5G of wort. Achieved 69% efficiency with a 0.5 gallon quick sparge. I only did a 45 minute boil so I could have upped that a bit to get the volume down but instead just added some DME to make up for the excess volume.

The mash was thick, but i think i could have gotten away with the correct volume of water and not have it be TOO thick.

I think 10 gallons of RIS would be pretty difficult to pull off. 8 shouldn't be a problem. I'll have to do some thinking before I fire up a 46lb of grain batch....

I am curious why you didn't just add screws to make the brew boss cofi filter fit over your dip tube?

 

[andrewmaixner]

I am curious why you didn't just add screws to make the brew boss cofi filter fit over your dip tube?

His isn't the Brew Boss COFI filter, it's a custom-made setup that eliminates the large amount of unused space that results from the COFI filter needing to fit past the kettle protrusions in the BrewBoss setup.

 

[swimIan]

I understand all that. He needed a filter that had 3.5 inch feet to fit over the dip tube in his BH kettle. The BH kettle was chosen for its relatively more narrow profile than typical 20 gal kettles. I asked why he didn't use the 20 gal cofi filter and increase the height of the feet from 2.5 to 3.5 inches instead of a custom filter?

 

[andrewmaixner]

I understand all that. He needed a filter that had 3.5 inch feet to fit over the dip tube in his BH kettle. The BH kettle was chosen for its relatively more narrow profile than typical 20 gal kettles. I asked why he didn't use the 20 gal cofi filter and increase the height of the feet from 2.5 to 3.5 inches instead of a custom filter?

Aah, I understand. I'm fairly sure it was because he wanted the absolute maximum grain space, and the custom setup has a much higher volume than does the BB-COFI

volume calculations. (subtracting a little from each outer dimension to estimate inner dimensions)

custom setup: 15" Diameter x 20.25" Tall
3.14*7.25^2*20=3300 cu in.

BB-COFI: "15 inches in diameter x 18 inches high"
3.14*7.25^2*17.5=2888 cu in

(3300-2888)/2888=.142

so that's almost 14% more space. Not actually as much difference as I thought it might be, so I see your point!

 

[FreddyMar3]

I understand all that. He needed a filter that had 3.5 inch feet to fit over the dip tube in his BH kettle. The BH kettle was chosen for its relatively more narrow profile than typical 20 gal kettles. I asked why he didn't use the 20 gal cofi filter and increase the height of the feet from 2.5 to 3.5 inches instead of a custom filter?

I guess I could have sacrificed the capacity but I was shooting for max OG per size. Also, the custom filter cost $300 less than a cofi filter.

 

[andrewmaixner]

I've made a half dozen batches on mine now, and have found a few interesting things.

1) the tangential whirlpool recirculation is not optimal for returning the output of a counterflow/plate chiller for in-kettle cooling. I have gotten temperature differentials of as much as 40F between the top and bottom of the kettle while just doing that, requiring a few brisk stirs to get the hot wort down into the chiller. I might re-arrange my tubing so that the output of the chiller can be easily routed to a higher-placed input (essentially leaving the tangential input unused). I wanted it all in one simple arrangement for recirculating boiling wort to sanitize, then easily dropping the temp for a hop-stand, then finishing the chill in the same manner, but that just might not work without a little manual intervention.

2) a fermwrap+blanket can keep 15gal of wort at 110F for kettle souring -- doing that right now.

3) I had no volume issues at all with 17gal water + 25lb grain for a triple batch of moderate gravity beer

Have you found the gravity limitations for 5 and 10 gallon batches yet, with or without a basic pour sparge?

 

[FreddyMar3]

I've made a half dozen batches on mine now, and have found a few interesting things.

1) the tangential whirlpool recirculation is not optimal for returning the output of a counterflow/plate chiller for in-kettle cooling. I have gotten temperature differentials of as much as 40F between the top and bottom of the kettle while just doing that, requiring a few brisk stirs to get the hot wort down into the chiller. I might re-arrange my tubing so that the output of the chiller can be easily routed to a higher-placed input (essentially leaving the tangential input unused). I wanted it all in one simple arrangement for recirculating boiling wort to sanitize, then easily dropping the temp for a hop-stand, then finishing the chill in the same manner, but that just might not work without a little manual intervention.

2) a fermwrap+blanket can keep 15gal of wort at 110F for kettle souring -- doing that right now.

3) I had no volume issues at all with 17gal water + 25lb grain for a triple batch of moderate gravity beer

Have you found the gravity limitations for 5 and 10 gallon batches yet, with or without a basic pour sparge?

1. I had the same issue but found an easy workaround. The way i have mine set up is with a 3 way TC valve going into the whirlpool. one setup allows the wort to return through the whirlpool and the other setup pushed the wort through a length of silicon tubing that is free on the other end. I originally set this up for easy racking into the fermenter when done. my ferm chamber is right next to the kettle so i can fill the fermenters in place. Once i discovered this temp stratification problem, i repurposed the fermenter fill hose to recirculate through the hole in the lid so that it returns the cool wort on top of the kettle. When i get close to pitching temp, I switch back to whirlpool with a quick turn of the valve and then let everything settle out.

2. I have been doing that as well. i have my ferm laying on the bottom of the chamber and it can heat the whole chamber to the appropriate temp.

3. I really don't have a great handle on limitations of gravity yet for a full batch but have not run into any restrictions yet, assuming i reserve some for a dump over sparge.

 

[andrewmaixner]

Got a mash efficiency of 73% with a 15lb grain bill (2 lbs syrups to add later), Mashed in 7gal with 1 gallon for a pour sparge. Had started with 6 gallons in the mash, but it didn't seem like it would be enough to cover the grain. This was my first small high-gravity beer attempt in this).

Might have gotten even better had it been a ramped mash instead of a ultra-high mash for a sour beer (160F mashed in at 165F). I also didn't bother with mineral or acid calculations this time, just RO with a small dash of magnesium sulfate and calcium chloride.

 

[andrewmaixner]

Continuing to look for the limits of this kind of setup, I've calculated and planned an 11 gallon batch of ~1.120 scotch heavy. The numbers all seem to work, so I'll see how it goes.

 

[andrewmaixner]

Continuing to look for the limits of this kind of setup, I've calculated and planned an 11 gallon batch of ~1.120 scotch heavy. The numbers all seem to work, so I'll see how it goes.

aaand, this resulted in the worst brew day yet for me on this system.

70% eff should have hit 1.110

Presuming my refractometer isn't broken, I got about 50-55% efficiency, for 11.5 gallons at about 1.075 (then I added a lot of extract at the end to make it up).

The very-full biab mash (13 gallons of water with 46lb grain) behaved more like a recirculating fly-sparge. Couldn't ramp temperature very fast due to the bag not being as good as a metal basket for recirculating (the sides don't let out liquid, just the bottom). Had a minor cavitation and scorch before I throttled the pump output way back. So instead I basically got a 2.5-hour ramp from 135 to 168. I would have thought that would give great conversion, but it did not. The actual gravity of the squeezed "first runnings" (before I did a 3 gal pour sparge to hit boil volume) was only about 1.075

I'm getting a high gravity hydrometer to re-check the gravity, as my refractometer readings were behaving oddly (extract additions did not seem to increase the gravity as calculations indicated they should). Will be interested to see if I can figure out what the heck is going on.

Edit: new hydrometer read about 1.105 (and fermentation had begun) which matches the 25.1 brix on the refractometer. I'm rather annoyed, as it was advertised as a wort-SG calibrated refractometer, but it is not. Now i have probably been taking invalid reading for months.

 

[Nmnbrewer]

Here is the exact order on the basket. I would recommend going 1/4 in less in diameter and 1/4 in taller on the feet, just to be safe. I cut it as close as it could possibly go:

(1) BIAB:
- 15" Diameter x 20.25" Tall (total basket height with feet: 23.75)
- 400 Micron
- with 3.5" Feet (i need 3.5 inches of clearance to clear the diptube)
- (3) 3/8" drilled holes in the top (as close to the top as possible)
- the drilled holes at the top take the place of the swing handle

(4) J-hooks:
- Kettle lip is 3/8 of an inch
- Kettle diameter is 15.75
- Length of J-hooks: 3 inches

Here is the order for the kettle including locations on the ferrules:
- 20 Gallon TC Fitted Boil Kettle with Tangential Inlet and Temperature Port
- Weld 1.5" Ferrule. Location: 3:00 @ as low as possible
- Weld 1" Ferrule. Location: 4:30 @ as low as possible
- Weld 1" Ferrules back to back. Location: Welded in lid, centered 3.5 in inches from edge

Hope this helps!

When you recommend making the basket 1/4" smaller "just to be safe" are you referring to anything specific that you've experienced? I have a 20 gallon SB kettle on order and am going to have arbor make a basket as well. The inside diameter of the SB kettle is approx 17 3/4". I'm going to have the basket made 17 1/4" leaving a 1/4" gap all around. This seems to me to be the best use of the space. Thoughts??

 

[FreddyMar3]

Just that the basket is a very close fit inside the kettle. Had arbor been off a bit it might be an issue but they were spot on. I haven't had any problems with it though. Some light scratches on inside of the kettle but I imagine this is unavoidable with steel on steel. I'm still loving the system. I cranked out 235 gallons on it last year with no issues to report.

 

[swimIan]

Are you still using the Brew-Boss app/controller? Do you program your own brew steps or import from BeerSmith?

 

[FreddyMar3]

Are you still using the Brew-Boss app/controller? Do you program your own brew steps or import from BeerSmith?

Sorry for the delay. I use a fire tablet and the brewboss app. Whatever version I have is somewhat glitchy but not enough to cause problems. I program on the web app that guy on the brewboss thread made (I think it's "brewing in the burg") then port over to the tablet.

 

[swimIan]

Thx

 

[Nmnbrewer]

Building a system very similar to this now. I see that you withheld 6 gallons on that big batch. Have you thought about putting the blichman down low, hooking the pump to the outlet and basically using it like a buffer tank. You'd still have a no sparge brew. I'm sure there's something I'm not thinking of but just a thought.