New KickStarter for an interesting airlock

First of all, Long time Listener - First time Caller.

Did a search and got nothing so I figured I would bring it up here.

https://www.plaato.io/

Seems like an interesting concept. Not sure how the results have been in testing but its a neat piece of gadget. Being a tech minded person I think its cool to see.

Not affiliated at all just a sucker for anything connected to the internet.

Cheers!

I'd have to see some first hand reviews from others before I'd jump in on it. If it works the way the claim accurately would definitely be a useful piece of beer gear.

Wouldn't this require a perfectly airtight fermentor (aside from the airlock of course)? There is a FAQ which addresses several points of contention as to how this actually works (or doesn't) and they make no mention of CO2 escaping elsewhere besides through the airlock.

Fun idea and I wish them luck.

Looks like the jist is an LED and a phototcell and when a bubble travels through the light path between them and the photocell detects it, you can calculate the CO2 released in that bubble. Using math and prototype runs they know the typical CO2 volume per bubble and then with math and science you now know how much alcohol is in your fermenter.

purplerat said:

Wouldn't this require a perfectly airtight fermentor (aside from the airlock of course)? There is a FAQ which addresses several points of contention as to how this actually works (or doesn't) and they make no mention of CO2 escaping elsewhere besides through the airlock.

Click to expand...

I suppose it would. You'd want to use it with carboys if possible. I have a bucket that appears to have an airtight seal, but who knows if there isn't a slow leak somewhere around the lid that would effect the measurement.

This seems like a very "approximate" device to me. There are a number of variables that can't be completely accounted for which should cause it's estimates of the gravity and alcohol content to drift a bit from the actual over time. I don't see that as a game breaker necessarily so long as you take the device for the "as close as we can get with what we have" type of tool it is.

There are some pieces of information that it can give you that seem valuable to me. The overall trend of active fermentation could help NEIPA brewers get their dry hops in at an optimum time. Identifying just when airlock activity peters out could help people on a schedule fast track their beers to the extent possible.

I've seen plenty of posts on here where people pitch their yeast, then come back three days later to no airlock activity and wonder if any fermentation happened. Sometimes seeing the data from this device would show them that it fermented madly while they were away and was most likely finished. Other times it would show them that nothing happened and they really do have something to worry about.

If I'm understanding correctly, the gravity is being calculated, not measured, correct?

I decided to back it and see what happens. I was interested in the Beer Bug, but after they shut down and all the devices became paper weights I have been looking for another alternative. I figure at $100 (+ $5 for shipping) I would give it a shot. The geek in me is very interested in something like this. Once they ship and I receive it, I will look to post about it and my opinions. If I can get a brew day in right away, I will keep a thread going of my experience with using it too. Well it will probably be one thread on it.

pshankstar said:

I decided to back it and see what happens. I was interested in the Beer Bug, but after they shut down and all the devices became paper weights I have been looking for another alternative. I figure at $100 (+ $5 for shipping) I would give it a shot. The geek in me is very interested in something like this. Once they ship and I receive it, I will look to post about it and my opinions. If I can get a brew day in right away, I will keep a thread going of my experience with using it too. Well it will probably be one thread on it.

Click to expand...

Do they say whether the output data is in an open format and gatherable locally without going via their servers? Otherwise, if they go down, you are back to the Beer Bug problem. They say there is an open API, but not whether that is to the device directly or to their servers.

<OS activist rant>It's all very well making these things work via cloud services, but I want to at least be able to integrate them into my open source fermentation controller, not to some closed source website (which is what the apps effectively are), as that leaves you at the mercy of the company continuing to exist and fund the cloud service.</rant>

dyqik said:

Do they say whether the output data is in an open format and gatherable locally without going via their servers? Otherwise, if they go down, you are back to the Beer Bug problem. They say there is an open API, but not whether that is to the device directly or to their servers.

<OS activist rant>It's all very well making these things work via cloud services, but I want to integrate them into my fermentation controller, not to some closed source website (which is what the apps effectively are), as that leaves you at the mercy of the company continuing to exist and fund the cloud service.</rant>

Click to expand...

I agree with you 100% and I was/am a bit concerned with using cloud services too. I reached out to them about this concern, and they said "We are using an external cloud service to make sure the up time is as good as possible". I want to find out more about this exactly.

They also mentioned they will be working on having an API for it too.

Looks like a simple design overall and a bit cheaper than the Beer Bug. Their FAQ does not answer a whole lot of questions I have.

• How would this work with a blow off tube?
• When you drain trub from a conical would that mess up the calculations?
• How about when krausen gets in the device?

If you could pause the device or remove invalid points of data some of my concerns mentioned above could be remedied. Devices like this may be helpful if you are really looking to fine-tune your fermentation process. Like in a situation where you are trying to exactly reproduce a beer batch after batch, or identify some kind of specific fermentation issue.

BEGIN RANT


END RANT

Alright my skepticism aside hopefully this works and makes the brewing process easier and more enjoyable for people!

Save your money....

When questioned about the openness of the api on reddit, they were less than forthcoming with any information until they were called out on the topic and called just another beer bug.

I questioned Pal on facebook as he was trying to drum up sales in a homebrew group on the fact that this device has to be constantly connected to the internet to even work and that they could introduce subscription fees in order for users to obtain there data. His response was that's how cloud devices work and at this point in time all current features are free to access in the app.

pshankstar said:

I agree with you 100% and I was/am a bit concerned with using cloud services too. I reached out to them about this concern, and they said "We are using an external cloud service to make sure the up time is as good as possible". I want to find out more about this exactly.

They also mentioned they will be working on having an API for it too.

Click to expand...

Yeah, they've just replied to me with a similar response. Needless to say, I won't be backing them. I'm fed up of rent seeking and lock-in behaviour from fragile startups.

They've already almost doubled their kickstarter goal of $30k so I suspect HBT will eventually have some reviews.

The concept seems unnecessary to me but if people want it that's their business.

toadyus said:

Save your money....

When questioned about the openness of the api on reddit, they were less than forthcoming with any information until they were called out on the topic and called just another beer bug.

I questioned Pal on facebook as he was trying to drum up sales in a homebrew group on the fact that this device has to be constantly connected to the internet to even work and that they could introduce subscription fees in order for users to obtain there data. His response was that's how cloud devices work and at this point in time all current features are free to access in the app.

Click to expand...

Hi,
Plaato already have an open API for the prototypes we have out on the market.

In regards to the comparisons of BeerBug - this is a completely different product. We already have 1000+ customers on the same cloud, and with the successful Kickstarter we are already far beyond the critical mass necessary to support the cost of the server solutions - that the last year with the emerge of IoT-equipment is far cheaper than before.

We are not adding subscription fees for the functionality in Plaato.
There are a lot of software features that we are considering developing, some of those might only make sense as premium, paid features. If we were to commit ourselves to never charging for any features down the line that would limit our options too much. We want to be able to develop the best product we can for you guys, and we don’t want to close any doors.
As of now there are no features under development that we are going to charge extra for.
I hope that answers your question, let me know if this is still unclear!

purplerat said:

Wouldn't this require a perfectly airtight fermentor (aside from the airlock of course)? There is a FAQ which addresses several points of contention as to how this actually works (or doesn't) and they make no mention of CO2 escaping elsewhere besides through the airlock.

Click to expand...

If the leak is substantial, the SG-estimation will of course be a couple degrees off. We understand that there are many carboys out there, and many of them are different.
In order to have 100% non-invasive measurements, the Plaato had to be developed based on a compromise. Especially with the affordable price has. And yes, the values of a carboy with a substantial leak will not be 100%, but the leak are predictable, and can (and will probably be included) in our empirical algorithm. The values and data will still be interesting, important and useful for learning how the process behaves - although closed steel fermenters is the dream.

But we do recommend to rather spend the money on a new carboy if it has a substantial leak

PLAATO said:

Hi,
Plaato already have an open API for the prototypes we have out on the market.

Click to expand...

Unless that API allows direct interaction with the product, without going through PLAATO servers, it's not open.

We know your product is different to Beer Bug, but your data access model appears to have exactly the same fundamental issue as Beer Bug's from the consumer's point of view. If operation of the device relies on the continuing operation of PLAATO as a business, and a continuation of their initial business model, then it's a risk for the purchaser.

PLAATO said:

Hi,
Plaato already have an open API for the prototypes we have out on the market.

In regards to the comparisons of BeerBug - this is a completely different product. We already have 1000+ customers on the same cloud, and with the successful Kickstarter we are already far beyond the critical mass necessary to support the cost of the server solutions - that the last year with the emerge of IoT-equipment is far cheaper than before.

We are not adding subscription fees for the functionality in Plaato.
There are a lot of software features that we are considering developing, some of those might only make sense as premium, paid features. If we were to commit ourselves to never charging for any features down the line that would limit our options too much. We want to be able to develop the best product we can for you guys, and we don’t want to close any doors.
As of now there are no features under development that we are going to charge extra for.
I hope that answers your question, let me know if this is still unclear!

Click to expand...

If I have a home server can I configure it as a localized cloud for this product?

As a former electronics system specialist in another life, I can respect technology - if it provides a concrete improvement in an application ....

...but...
When it comes to brewing, I'm as paleo in method as you get. Thermometer, hydrometer, digital scale, and a laptop for app calculations. I'm not convinced this will improve my beer.

So here's some guys from Norway making an airlock that is supposed to monitor temperature, co2 emission and estimate gravity.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1792157374/plaato-reinventing-the-airlock

I love gadgets and will be interesting to see how it turns out and compare to other devices like Tilt

Edit: This sems to be moved to a thread I didn't pick up in the search

That looks very interesting. I hope it's not cost prohibitive on the little guy!

ALExanderH said:

So here's some guys from Norway making an airlock that is supposed to monitor temperature, co2 emission and estimate gravity.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1792157374/plaato-reinventing-the-airlock

I love gadgets and will be interesting to see how it turns out and compare to other devices like Tilt

Click to expand...

I'm curious how this will compare to the Tilt since it measures everything via CO2 emissions. I'm thinking the Tilt will be more accurate since it's floating in the beer, but I'm curious how close this will be.

PLAATO said:

Hi,
Plaato already have an open API for the prototypes we have out on the market.

In regards to the comparisons of BeerBug - this is a completely different product. We already have 1000+ customers on the same cloud, and with the successful Kickstarter we are already far beyond the critical mass necessary to support the cost of the server solutions - that the last year with the emerge of IoT-equipment is far cheaper than before.

Click to expand...

You have literally created BeerBug #2. If anything happens to your company/website, the device you are selling is completely worthless. You are selling literally the same product - a cloud-connected specific gravity sensor.

I sincerely hope that your customers understand that they are signing up for what will potentially become a $100-$150 paperweight.

Not a huge fan of 'cloud connected' gear. Becomes an expensive paperweight when the company goes away.

Is it much different from BrewNanny Kickstarter ??!!??!!!