CO2 Leak

Hi Gang,

Dealing with a CO2 leak here - been through four kegs and two tanks of CO2. The guy at the gas place told me to:

1. Charge my system
2. Turn the gas off.
3. Mark where the gauges are
4. Come back in 20 minutes.

If either gauge drops over 20 minutes, there's a leak in the system. I disconnected the gas from the kegs and did precisely that.

I have a Taprite Double-Gauge Regulator. The high-pressure gauge (I think - the one with the green and red) dropped pretty much down to nothing. The other gauge (which I think is the "pressure in the system" gauge) stayed put.

Am I interpreting this correctly that this indicates there's no leak in this part of the system (the regulator, manifold, and quick disconnects)? And that the high-pressure (green-and-red) gauge is dropping to zero because I'm turning off the gas?

This would indicate that I've got a leak in one (or both) of the kegs.

robertus said:

Hi Gang,

Dealing with a CO2 leak here - been through four kegs and two tanks of CO2. The guy at the gas place told me to:

1. Charge my system
2. Turn the gas off.
3. Mark where the gauges are
4. Come back in 20 minutes.

If either gauge drops over 20 minutes, there's a leak in the system. I disconnected the gas from the kegs and did precisely that.

I have a Taprite Double-Gauge Regulator. The high-pressure gauge (I think - the one with the green and red) dropped pretty much down to nothing. The other gauge (which I think is the "pressure in the system" gauge) stayed put.

Am I interpreting this correctly that this indicates there's no leak in this part of the system (the regulator, manifold, and quick disconnects)? And that the high-pressure (green-and-red) gauge is dropping to zero because I'm turning off the gas?

This would indicate that I've got a leak in one (or both) of the kegs.

Click to expand...

You are interpreting it correctly, but it could be a much slower leak.

charge each keg 1 at a time with 20-30 PSI and spray the lid and gas posts with star san and look for bubbles.

If none of your kegs are bubbling, spray down your quick connects, manifold, and regulator connections as well (with the gas on) just to double check.

That will show you where the leak is much faster and more accurately.

TheMadKing said:

You are interpreting it correctly, but it could be a much slower leak.

charge each keg 1 at a time with 20-30 PSI and spray the lid and gas posts with star san and look for bubbles.

If none of your kegs are bubbling, spray down your quick connects, manifold, and regulator connections as well (with the gas on) just to double check.

That will show you where the leak is much faster and more accurately.

Click to expand...

Great, thanks. I figure it might be the kegs (specifically the green keg on the right). I'll have to wait until the wife gets home to play with those.

I have a cheap a$$ regulator. Not a Tap-Rite, but I can't imagine it would be different. I shut off the tank HP valve when doing diagnosing.

The HP gauge will read the pressure in the little tube from the valve to the LP regulator.. so if I turn off the low pressure valve on the regulator and do this it will show full on both gauges indefinitely. (And if it didn't the leak is at the regulator.. either you'd be missing that nylon washer on the HP side or the valve or barb on your regulator is leaking from the threads.)

With a leak, the HP gauge would fall to zero very fast.. way before the LP gauge would move at all in this case.

I had a keg that would take the shut off HP valve and the HP gauge would take first 8 hours, then after work 12, and then after more work 48 hours to drain.

I'll give the run down on why I no longer believe kegging to be "that much easier" than bottling at the end of this...

To determine it was the lines or a keg, I have shutoffs on all of the manifolds.. I actually got rid of all of the LHBS style check ball valves and put on air compressor ones because early on I had one of those leak when it was on but not off... but ... in this case... I turned off all of the good valves...

And turned off the HP tank valve...

24 hours later, no gauge moved.. and then on keg #1 I turned it on.. 24 hours later.. no gauge moved... turned off keg #1 turned on keg #2. Next morning.. HP gauge flat, LP no change.. Had to run to work so I pulled the line charged it up and when I got home, no change.. so it was the keg...

AHA!

First thing wrong with that keg-- the ball lock post o-ring...

then it took 12 hrs.. to leak down enough to move the HP gauge.. Popped it off and took out the dip tube and replaced what I thought was a brand new o-ring on the liquid post.. made it 24 hrs..
Popped the lid and greased the lid o-ring... made it 48 hrs...

At that point, I just started turning off the keg until I kicked it.

Found out later that I the gas o-ring I thought I replaced when I got it I must have missed... OK, changed that when I cleaned it... must have forgotten to change the one I thought looked good too.. okay....

A couple of weeks later, I refilled the keg and the damn lid was severely leaking.. took a lid from a different keg and it was fine.

What was wrong with the lid is the bale was bent, but straightening it out didn't work.. Coke apparently was bending it to make up for dry rotted end caps.. replaced those, straightened up the bale and it's fine now...

So what would I do if it's a keg from now on? Replace the lid feet and ALL of the O-rings and save my sanity..

Luckily I do that shutting off the HP valve trick every time I reach carbonation on a new keg.. I was lucky that that leak was crazy slow, but I still probably lost a keg's worth of CO2...

Fred

robertus said:

Great, thanks. I figure it might be the kegs (specifically the green keg on the right). I'll have to wait until the wife gets home to play with those.

Click to expand...

Kid wanted to go downstairs, so I managed to get the spray test in on both kegs. Didn't see any bubbles forming around the latches or post,
Except when I disconnected the gas line from one keg - bubbles formed on the top of the gas post.

Is that normal, or is that my leak?

UndeadFred said:

I'll give the run down on why I no longer believe kegging to be "that much easier" than bottling at the end of this...
Fred

Click to expand...

I have to respectfully disagree Fred. It sounds like you could have saved yourself a ton of time and effort just by spritzing with star-san or even soapy water to find the leak. It will show even the slowest leaks instantly, no more waiting for gauges. Plus, it will show you where the leak is so you can focus your effort on fixing it.

Also, if your keg lid is leaking, try turning on your gas to 20-30 PSI with the bale up and jiggle it until it seats. It's the gas pressure that will get you a great seal. I have a few bad kegs that need the lid to be manhandled, but once they are pressurized they work great. Another nifty trick is to stick a penny or two under the feet of the bale to give them a little more downward force.

Keg lube also works wonders on helping o-rings seal better too.

I'm not trying to be condescending or anything, just helpful.

Cheers!

Oh, I did that too. Left a lot of the details out. Really that is how I found the lid leak over and over. What is even better is submerging the keg in a garbage can of water. But it was half full of stout at the time. I suppose I should have transfered it.. But I didn't. The purpose of telling that story is that you can use that high pressure gauge as a tool to diagnose a problem. The keg lid leak at the end was so small the soap didn't work. But it still leaked. So really you want to have multiple methods.

I always hit my kegs with 35 PSI when sealing them too. This one was special because the lid caps were compressing over time. So it fine, then it wasn't, then it was... Etc... I actually cut a ty wrap into two small pieces and put them into the new lid caps on the fixed lid also so the lid seals a little tighter.. It held overnight without the ty wrap pieces but I still thought it was a bit loosey goosey...

UndeadFred said:

The keg lid leak at the end was so small the soap didn't work. But it still leaked. So really you want to have multiple methods.

Click to expand...

I suspect that's the route I'll have to go (eventually). I wasn't able to find anything with the soap bubble method.

Oddly, when I vented one keg so as to reseat it, it *then* bubbled like hell around the lid after I vented (but before I reseated). After I reseated it, nothing.

I had a leak at my PRV. The pull ring part was not screwed all the way down and slow leaking. The pressures is good if the kegs are empty so no CO2 is absorbed in the beer.

robertus said:

I suspect that's the route I'll have to go (eventually). I wasn't able to find anything with the soap bubble method.

Oddly, when I vented one keg so as to reseat it, it *then* bubbled like hell around the lid after I vented (but before I reseated). After I reseated it, nothing.

Click to expand...

That actually makes sense, a keg is more likely to leak at low pressure than at high pressure because the pressure isn't pushing the seals together.

TheMadKing said:

That actually makes sense, a keg is more likely to leak at low pressure than at high pressure because the pressure isn't pushing the seals together.

Click to expand...

The spray bubble test didn't turn anything up, suggesting it's a really slow leak. At this point, it sounds like "fill recycling bin with water, submerge kegs" is the best plan. That'll have to wait until after recycling day.

TheMadKing said:

I have to respectfully disagree Fred. It sounds like you could have saved yourself a ton of time and effort just by spritzing with star-san or even soapy water to find the leak. It will show even the slowest leaks instantly, no more waiting for gauges. Plus, it will show you where the leak is so you can focus your effort on fixing it.

Also, if your keg lid is leaking, try turning on your gas to 20-30 PSI with the bale up and jiggle it until it seats. It's the gas pressure that will get you a great seal. I have a few bad kegs that need the lid to be manhandled, but once they are pressurized they work great. Another nifty trick is to stick a penny or two under the feet of the bale to give them a little more downward force.

Keg lube also works wonders on helping o-rings seal better too.

I'm not trying to be condescending or anything, just helpful.

Cheers!

Click to expand...

All due respect to all that use soapy water... Stop That! Nasty stuff, it will get somewhere it dont belong! (Rant Over)

StarSan works just as well.

Another thing to try is to punch the lid with the handle of a screw driver or hammer. HANDLE people! Not the business end! LOL!

This helps immensely with re-seating the o-ring, it also allows for a more -intimate- seal.

Carry on...

robertus said:

The spray bubble test didn't turn anything up, suggesting it's a really slow leak. At this point, it sounds like "fill recycling bin with water, submerge kegs" is the best plan. That'll have to wait until after recycling day.

Click to expand...

I'm confused, sorry, I thought you said you saw bubbles around the lid after you vented the keg?

TheMadKing said:

I'm confused, sorry, I thought you said you saw bubbles around the lid after you vented the keg?

Click to expand...

I did. I read your response to mean that venting the keg caused the leak I saw there.

Unless you're saying "it made the small leak into a big obvious leak" which also makes sense. Which, hey awesome! Problem located!

robertus said:

I did. I read your response to mean that venting the keg caused the leak I saw there.

Unless you're saying "it made the small leak into a big obvious leak" which also makes sense. Which, hey awesome! Problem located!

Click to expand...

The latter was what I was saying haha, sorry about that.

It could be either one, but it stands to reason that the same place leaking at high pressure would leak worse at low pressure.

I would try keg lube on your lid gasket and the screwdriver trick that firewalker suggested, and THEN try the guage test at high pressure.

Troubleshooting 101: start in a logical place and methodically eliminate possibilities and whatever remains must be the problem.

Sorry for the confusion, and I hope something I've said has been useful!

Thanks @TheMadKing. Don't mistake my confusion for your lack of clarity or insight. Sometimes I don't think so good .

I'll lube my keg (giggity!) and do the test over the weekend.

My soap test, is actually StarSan, by the way. It appears that the new caps plus my little spacers made from the cut ty wraps finally made that particular lid 100% reliable. It is funny how both of the kegs that I got came from the same very popular source of used pin locks tho. Time to spend $10 more from a source that actually refurbish their kegs.. Or buy new...

robertus said:

Hi Gang,

Dealing with a CO2 leak here - been through four kegs and two tanks of CO2. The guy at the gas place told me to:

1. Charge my system
2. Turn the gas off.
3. Mark where the gauges are
4. Come back in 20 minutes.

If either gauge drops over 20 minutes, there's a leak in the system. I disconnected the gas from the kegs and did precisely that.

I have a Taprite Double-Gauge Regulator. The high-pressure gauge (I think - the one with the green and red) dropped pretty much down to nothing. The other gauge (which I think is the "pressure in the system" gauge) stayed put.

Am I interpreting this correctly that this indicates there's no leak in this part of the system (the regulator, manifold, and quick disconnects)? And that the high-pressure (green-and-red) gauge is dropping to zero because I'm turning off the gas?

This would indicate that I've got a leak in one (or both) of the kegs.

Click to expand...

Are there beer in your kegs? Is the beer fully carbed? Some of your CO2 may have just went into solution.

Scratch that didn't read well enough. If you are only looking at the manifold, regulator and QD's then submerge the whole thing in water and look for air bubbles.

At that point, I was only looking at the manifold, regulator, and QDs. I later zeroed in on the lid of one of the kegs (which has a little beer in it still). Figure I'll kick that in the next couple days, and then do the "charge and submerge" thing to confirm. Or just go ahead and replace the seals.

Sadly, I'm still leaking from somewhere.

If the issue was "I didn't open the gas tank all the way," how fast a leak would that cause? I went through a #5 tank in less than a week, and wasn't getting so much as a trickle out of the faucet. Seems like that's a pretty major leak. It's possible I only turned it enough to get the gauges to react, and not the extra couple of turns after that.

I'm off work tomorrow, planning to refill the tank and then charge-and-submerge the kegs to check for leaks there. Not sure I'll find anything -I sprayed the hell out of them with soapy water tonight. I found one potential leak (in the relief valve) in the keg that wasn't hooked up previously. In other words, even if that keg was leaking, that wouldn't explain blowing through a full tank on a different keg.

I'm starting to lose my mind. I'm on tank number 4 and keg number 5.

Spent the afternoon buying beer in preparation for the incoming snow storm and poking around my system for leaks. Submerged the Black keg in the bathtub and found two leaks: the relief valve was bubbling away and there was a small but steady leak out of the poppet in the out post. However, that keg hasn't been plugged in for a month or two, so that doesn't explain the "burning through a tank of gas on the Green keg."

I dumped the Green keg to check that for leaks, and came up empty. No leaks anywhere, even with the PSI cranked up to 30 or 40. I even swapped leaky bits over from the Black keg and found the same two leaks. That left me a little confused: The wrong keg was leaky (and I just dumped a beer for naught).

So, I sprayed the hell out of all my regulator and eureka: right where the high-pressure gauge connects to the regulator. That looks like it's going at a pretty good clip and might explain how I'm blowing through tanks of gas as quickly as I am.

Any thoughts on how to fix that? With the understanding that I'm not at all mechanically inclined, should I go back to the retailer that sold me the part (Kegconnection.com)?

robertus said:

Spent the afternoon buying beer in preparation for the incoming snow storm and poking around my system for leaks. Submerged the Black keg in the bathtub and found two leaks: the relief valve was bubbling away and there was a small but steady leak out of the poppet in the out post. However, that keg hasn't been plugged in for a month or two, so that doesn't explain the "burning through a tank of gas on the Green keg."

I dumped the Green keg to check that for leaks, and came up empty. No leaks anywhere, even with the PSI cranked up to 30 or 40. I even swapped leaky bits over from the Black keg and found the same two leaks. That left me a little confused: The wrong keg was leaky (and I just dumped a beer for naught).

So, I sprayed the hell out of all my regulator and eureka: right where the high-pressure gauge connects to the regulator. That looks like it's going at a pretty good clip and might explain how I'm blowing through tanks of gas as quickly as I am.

Any thoughts on how to fix that? With the understanding that I'm not at all mechanically inclined, should I go back to the retailer that sold me the part (Kegconnection.com)?

Click to expand...

Teflon tape (wind it counterclockwise around the threads when you are looking straight on at them) and tighten it down good and tight

I was all ready to type a response to the effect of "I tried using a wrench and couldn't get the gauge off the regulator" when an angel appeared to me and said "have you tried brute force?"

So I used two wrenches to brute force the thing off. Went remarkably easy, actually. Wrenched the gauge off and retaped it thusly:



Reattached it, resprayed it, and no leaks. The Hubba Bubba is holding strong. As is the pink teflon tape. I also took the couple of minutes to break down, clean out, and re-poppet the Black keg, fixing that as well. Water pours from both kegs were very solid.

Since we're going to be snowed in tomorrow, it's a double brew day. Hope to have it back to fully armed and operational in a couple of weeks. Thanks for all the help.


Also, much to my surprise, the gauge actually read higher ("tank more full") than it had been before, which may be that the tank was sitting at room temps for a couple of days or may be that I just fixed the leak. Or some combination of both.

robertus said:

Also, much to my surprise, the gauge actually read higher ("tank more full") than it had been before, which may be that the tank was sitting at room temps for a couple of days or may be that I just fixed the leak. Or some combination of both.

Click to expand...

It was because the tank was warmer. Glad you found your leak, they suck!!