High Gravity Brewing vs Brew Boss vs Another Electric Brewing Setup

I have really wanted to upgrade to eBIAB, or another all grain brewing system for the ease of operation. It seems that both of these systems have been steadily evolving, and now I am ready to pull the trigger on something. Both systems are somewhat in my budget, but I wanted to get some input from you all, as to which of these systems is preferred or would another type electric system be preferred and why.... I already have 30 amp 240V wired in my garage. I have 2 9-gallon kettles w/valves, along with a 10 gallon cooler mash tun. This is my current setup, just wanting to expedite things with some type of controller.... So my two current options are High Gravity, or Brew Boss, or maybe a mix between the two.... Any advice is appreciated.

I've also been thinking about an electric setup with an electric HLT/BK and cooler mash tun. The thought is to be able to do a decent batch sparge to improve efficiency. But I sure like the efficient operation of a single vessel setup. Just wondering if using the cooler mash tun will offer any benefit over a single vessel eBIAB. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated....

I just bought a BrewBoss system, and I love it. Seems to me they offer the most value for the money and I was given good advice by the owner on a couple questions I had as I set it up. Seems to have many more options to automate the brewing process. I use BIAB, and the system works flawlessly at controlling temps and timing.

i put this on another thread, brew-boss has made some hardware changes, plus they currently have a kickstarter campaign. I'm am also looking at the hosehead by brewtronix and the highgravity system. wish me luck

Hi. I'm shamelessly self promoting here but I'm the owner of brausupply.com At the moment we are doing small batch 3-5 Gallon BIAB systems but are planning a release of 2 element 120V 5 Gallon systems and also 240V 5 and 10 gallon setups. Check out the quality of the build, and our prices will be very competitive to what's out there. Not full automation, but built in timing and alarm features, all stainless and silicone parts, non rusting stainless elements, etc. Just another optionhttp://cdn.homebrewtalk.com/images/smilies/occasion14.gif

Newbie here... tried to delete the second post.

I ordered an EBC- SV system from High Gravity just before Christmas.
After sitting down and determining my wiring for a dedicated circuit I realized that I didn't order correctly for GFCI operation. I called and Dave said my unit was shipping that day but he took care of it.

I got the unit and set everything up. When I turned up the heat, the controller blew. Dave didn't question it, sent a return label. I shipped on Monday, he repaired and sent it out the same day.

Last night I set up again and took 10 gallons of my 50 degree well water to 156 in about 30 mins and then to boil in another 25.

Can't say enough nice things about High Gravity and the service I received.

Bottom Floor Brewing is born.

The hosehead setup is very nice and reasonably priced..I am not familiar with the brew boss setup but I have mentioned before that I'm not a huge fan of the $200 worth of hardware components from high gravity being sold for over a grand... Everyone has to make money but for a "DIY kit" as they market it so they except no liability that's just not a good value.... There are way better options out there like the ones sold by the member here brumatuer in his eBay store.. You can get the same functionality and safety for half of what high gravity wants...
Just my 2 cents and I don't expect everyone to agree especially those who didn't do their homework.
And not everyone wants or is capable of building their own... But that's all the more reason for those people to do their homework before purchasing something IMHO.

I built my own for under $300 and it controls three pids,alarm, 3 elements, 3 pumps and a timer....

augiedoggy said:

The hosehead setup is very nice and reasonably priced..I am not familiar with the brew boss setup but I have mentioned before that I'm not a huge fan of the $200 worth of hardware components from high gravity being sold for over a grand... Everyone has to make money but for a "DIY kit" as they market it so they except no liability that's just not a good value.... There are way better options out there like the ones sold by the member here brumatuer in his eBay store.. You can get the same functionality and safety for half of what high gravity wants...
Just my 2 cents and I don't expect everyone to agree especially those who didn't do their homework.
And not everyone wants or is capable of building their own... But that's all the more reason for those people to do their homework before purchasing something IMHO.

I built my own for under $300 and it controls three pids,alarm, 3 elements, 3 pumps and a timer....

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If that's the case I'll give you $300 to make a build that has everything that the high gravity system does; including the pot, element, controller, chugger pump, wiring, RIMs setup, tubing etc.

We are are talking about just the cost of the control panel here ... You know this. Why go off topic?
Did you need to buy everything in your brewing setup at the same time from the same place? That's like buying a house fully furnished... most don't do it for the same reasons.
My whole system was more (about $1,000 but that includes a lot more than the setup your talking about.)

tell you what. open up the control panel take a picture and post it here and I'll price out every component for you starting with the $33 Home Depot enclosure, $50 Aubur temperature controller and the 50 cent red rocker switchs on the front

I don't own it, but they sell the controller for $500 (seems to be the going rate for single vessel controllers) not a grand like you said. The $1000 version includes the "full brewery" with everything but a chiller.
I'm pretty sure that everyone else in this thread is talking about the whole setup, looking at the posts above.

You are paying for a convenience factor and work hours.

Could you make the controller for $200? You probably could, but that markup is about standard for any built/assembled product.

I'd hate to see how you react to restaurants...

(Off my soapbox)

tmendick said:

I don't own it, but they sell the controller for $500 (seems to be the going rate for single vessel controllers) not a grand like you said. The $1000 version includes the "full brewery" with everything but a chiller.
I'm pretty sure that everyone else in this thread is talking about the whole setup, looking at the posts above.

You are paying for a convenience factor and work hours.

Could you make the controller for $200? You probably could, but that markup is about standard for any built/assembled product.

I'd hate to see how you react to restaurants...

(Off my soapbox)

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http://www.highgravitybrew.com/store/pc/EBC-III-D-Electric-Brewery-Controller-269p4330.htm the $999 gets you this control panel and basic temp probes... thats it! Your looking at $200-300 tops in materials for this $1000 package. The $1000 package you speak of is a single element basic BIAB setup with the $200 material controller $100 pump and a $119 bayou classic pot with spigot (I have two of the same kettles)... again we are comparing apples to oranges here.

You could make their $500 control panel for about $120.. its only a single pid system... one could actually build one with the exact same functionality for about $75... when someone builds these one after another they learn quick to pump them out in a couple hours...I'm sorry but $800 for 2 or even three hours labor on a homemade product from a seller who excepts no liability from any problems that may result from its use it a bit too much for me to find reasonable. I like I said its my opinion, If you think its a fair deal so be it... enough people do apparently.

I made mine for under $300 .... just as reference to show you how far $300 can go...
I'm building another panel now thats almost idendical to the $800 HG one.It has one ssvr for boil kettle control and a pid for HLT/herms control and control for two dc pumps including the dc powersupply and individual speed controllers for 2 pumps... its cost me $140 in materials including the wire and temp probes...

I have no issues paying to eat in a restaurant, but I wouldnt pay $200 a plate for something that cost $15 and 20 minutes to whip up either...

$1,000 is about what my whole setup cost with three pumps ,plate chiller motorized grain mill and three kettle system with rims...
Here are some pics... its nothing fancy and their are much classier setups in the forum but it gives a good indication of what things really cost if one really shops around since this was a budget build that took a year. paying more for convenience is perfectly acceptible like I said my opinion is that extra money you pay for support and convenience should be reasonable not three times the actual building costs.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/facelift-my-control-panel-497593/

I own the Brew Boss and would recommend it to anyone. If you have any questions specific to that system I can probably answer them.

Snicklefritz said:

I own the Brew Boss and would recommend it to anyone. If you have any questions specific to that system I can probably answer them.

Click to expand...

See now your system looks to have more functionality and is more upgradable in the future for the same cost as the HG system

Just for clarity, I just purchased the high gravity eBIAB system for about $1100. This included controller (the single vessel model), kettle, pump, temp sensor and plumbing. Assembly was easy. This was priced in the ballpark of most similar systems (brewmeister, brewha, etc.). I'm not sure if we are comparing apples and oranges. And remember most people can't build there own controller.

If anyone is interested you can see my system build on my Facebook page BTRbrewing.

blubmr said:

Just for clarity, I just purchased the high gravity eBIAB system for about $1100. This included controller (the single vessel model), kettle, pump, temp sensor and plumbing. Assembly was easy. This was priced in the ballpark of most similar systems (brewmeister, brewha, etc.). I'm not sure if we are comparing apples and oranges. And remember most people can't build there own controller.

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Trust me, not an issue with most people can't build... more an issue of "scared" or "can't be bothered" or "don't know how to google the parts needed"

It's really not that difficult. Augie is prime candidate for "knows how to google and isn't scared"

I now remember why I don't hang out in these forums. Arrogance. There is obviously a large market for those "who can't be bothered" or "are scared". It is about making beer and sharing, not blasting people who prefer to buy some of there equipment made by a professional.

BigFloppy said:

Trust me, not an issue with most people can't build... more an issue of "scared" or "can't be bothered" or "don't know how to google the parts needed"



It's really not that difficult. Augie is prime candidate for "knows how to google and isn't scared"

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Congrats, you and Augie won the internet for being super cool. In all seriousness augie your controller does look nice.

Now please lets get back on topic of which BIAB turnkey system people have actually used and have an opinion on.

tmendick said:

Now please lets get back on topic of which BIAB turnkey system people have actually used and have an opinion on.

Click to expand...

you're talking apples and oranges.. store bought in comparison with diy there's really no comparison

I diy'd like augie and yes, I've probably got 1K total in my build but it really is an apples and oranges scenario with mine having 3x PID's, 1/2" herms tube, 3x elements + rims-tube, 3x pumps, 4x temp inputs, 7" touchscreen, stainless pots/keggles etc

If I were to sell my setup, would be "worth" many times more than bare physical cost (NO IT'S NOT FOR SALE)

blubmr said:

I now remember why I don't hang out in these forums. Arrogance. There is obviously a large market for those "who can't be bothered" or "are scared". It is about making beer and sharing, not blasting people who prefer to buy some of there equipment made by a professional.

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I'm sorry, let's try to keep this civil... The high gravity system Is not a professional system nor would I consider it a professionally built commercial system... Its a system cobbled together just like most of the diy systems here. Its made with the exact same components most of us built our control panels from... More likely it was cyopied from someones diy system.
If it was a professionally built and sold system there wouldn't be a disclaimer on their website about these systems being sold as a " DIY" kit without the main plug attached and all responsibility being on the person who wires the plug on and plugs it in.
When was the last time you bought a professionally built appliance that came without the plug wired and such a disclaimer of taking no responsibility for its use?
I honestly wouldn't have such an issue with this if their prices weren't so crazy... They are not paying for any CE certification,Ul listing or any other liability costs that a real professional appliance would have... Even something as simple as a $10 toaster has these to be sold in stores...

The title of this thread said nothing about just comparing biab or commercially sold systems only... Someone asked for feedback ... If others want to stay in denial about their purchase they should choose not to read these threads... I am trying to keep things factual, I ask someone to take a photo of the high gravity setup and I will price out every component... Many will also be able to see how easy or difficult these are to wire up.
This will shed more light on whether the 200% markup over components cost is justified in many minds...

As Big floppy has stated building one of these is not rocket science but if you can't build your own there are affordable alternatives.... Some would rather spend $275 for a pot with ball valves attached than spent $120 on a pot without holes along with the fittings and ballvalves and but an $18 drill bit set and spend the 30 minutes to assemble themselves... If you have two or three of these pots you can easily see how a motivated person with full functionality of their arms and hands could build the exact same system for 1,000 bucks that another would spend $3000 grand or more for...
Kind of ff topic:
I dealt with this same attitude when I was researching to restore an old stingray I bought for $2500 ... Most of the people on the corvette forum were downright upset I stated I was going to build my own engine instead of forking over $5 grand for a complete crate engine.... I researched and shopped around for parts and built a 355 from scratch minus the machining work on the block that has an estimated 396 HP 420lb of torque output for under $1,500 total cost... I also pulled the old motor and installed it myself along with replacing the interior...

No I do not have any auto mechanic training nor upholstery skills.... I do know how to google and read directions and find YouTube very helpful... I also do not let all the nay sayers and scared people who want to justify their own decision's...
And the car only has 800 miles on the new engine but runs pretty awesome. I'm inte process of stripping all the paint and doing bodywork before I paint it.

My advice would be that if you would rather just buy something because you don't want to bother with research or are afraid to build your own (which was just as rewarding as homebrewing BTW) that's fine! But please do try to persuade others to do the same to help justify your choice.

Auggie,
It is all a matter of how you value your time.
I am more than capable of cobbling together my own system but, really lack time.
I value my time quite highly and don't have a problem paying someone else and allowing them to make a profit. I am in business to make a profit and so is High Gravity. I am very satisfied with what I purchased.

I began brewing back in 92 and gave it up due to lack of time. I recently blew the dust off a carboy and jumped back into it. For me, this was a great option.

You're right the OP asks about 2 turnkey eBIAB systems and then asks about alternatives, my bad.
Do I think they over charge for their system? Yes, but they charge what they do because people will pay it. That's just how the system works.
Personally I like the look of the Brew-Boss setup a little better (just wish they had IOS support) and with their Kickstarter right now the cost is almost identical with a better interface from the videos I've seen on youtube of people using them.

kaffeenjunkie said:

Auggie,
It is all a matter of how you value your time.
I am more than capable of cobbling together my own system but, really lack time.
I value my time quite highly and don't have a problem paying someone else and allowing them to make a profit. I am in business to make a profit and so is High Gravity. I am very satisfied with what I purchased.

I began brewing back in 92 and gave it up due to lack of time. I recently blew the dust off a carboy and jumped back into it. For me, this was a great option.

Click to expand...

Lets be honesrt, You don't lack the time... If you did you wouldn't be home brewing but you value your time more than paying someone else the 2 to 3 times more to cobble it together for you.... Its that simple and its fine for you because you have the extra money laying around to make the choice easier if you didnt it would be a foolish choice regardless. It doesn't make the system in discussion any more of a value for others... Again the profit margin on many of these setups is all over the place and of all of the the high gravity system has the highest cost for the cheapest build and functionality. You can find systems built and sold for literally half of what others are charging for the same thing and the only difference it seems are the marketing strategies being used by the sellers (which are usually the smart members here who say wow I can make a fortune off these fellow home brewer who are afraid or don't want to bother learning to build this like I just did..)

tmendick said:

You're right the OP asks about 2 turnkey eBIAB systems and then asks about alternatives, my bad.
Do I think they over charge for their system? Yes, but they charge what they do because people will pay it. That's just how the system works.
Personally I like the look of the Brew-Boss setup a little better (just wish they had IOS support) and with their Kickstarter right now the cost is almost identical with a better interface from the videos I've seen on youtube of people using them.

Click to expand...

Go back and read my first post... That's all I was trying to say... There are other systems being sold that are a much better value than the high gravity... And if one feels they can and want to tackle building their own which is intimidating before researching it, they can save even more.

My info here is specific to the Brew Boss system since that's the only one I've used. I certainly have the talent and the means to have built my own PID controlled eBIAB system. I researched it for a very long time before making my decision. I probably would have spent about 1/2 of what I actually paid for the Brew Boss. However, that's if I ONLY factor in the parts. TIME = MONEY. Every hour I spend tinkering with building a brewing system is an hour I could have been getting paid for (I work freelance on the side). I would argue you're better off working 10 extra hours and making the extra money to pay for the controller rather than spending 30 hours building and testing the system. This is especially true with the Brew Boss as the firmware on the controller itself is very feature rich and took months of R&D to get working. Months of time I can't afford to lose. I do agree though that the HG system does seem a bit cheap though for what you get.

I have to agree with some pretty insane markup in the HGB systems, but as someone who built their own control panel, the labor AND planning involved IS astronomical and just cannot be over stated. Shipping costs when you buy your parts from 10 different sites and ebay stores will quickly drive up the costs of a DIY solution, too.


If you've got a functioning brewing system now and you can slowly build your control panel over time while keeping your existing system so you can keep building your new one, then DIY becomes a better option; if going to electric means you don't get to brew again until you build a new control panel -you probably won't be brewing for months unless you don't have a day job...


Lost opportunity cost, time and shipping costs need to be factored in.

Neither option is crazy but there are some great electric systems that show up on Ebay / even Craigslist / HBT For Sale ocassionally that are much more reasonably priced.


Adam

Adam, I think you stated it succinctly.

Auggie, my typical work week is 60 hours and 6 days.
I value my time, and my time off quite highly.
Color me out of this thread, sorry I spoke up.

Keith

kaffeenjunkie said:

Adam, I think you stated it succinctly.

Auggie, my typical work week is 60 hours and 6 days.
I value my time, and my time off quite highly.
Color me out of this thread, sorry I spoke up.

Keith

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I get that..I do I did the two job 60hr thing for 7 years. But then still there are other control panels available already built for much more reasonable rates...
Again the first point I was trying to make was as the prebuilt control panels go, HG charges more than most if not THE MOST for what appears to be the cheapest components available (besides the $45 pid)... if there was a cost break down of the components like kal does at the electric brewery I think people would be surprised at what they really cost and how little there really is inside...
Even though kals cost break down links are mostly from the more expensive resellers it still gives an indication of whats involved...

And as far as the time and effort it took to build my panel I have to say for me it was like a whole other hobby for me. I actually enjoyed most of it and is was very satisfying to know I know exactly whats going on and will have no problem replacing things as the fail or adding things as I want to...Others who went the DIY route should know what I'm talking about.

Most of those systems on ebay are from a member here "Brumateur" (who I mentioned in my first post) Many members here like "HELLO" have worked with him for custom builds and stated he is a very reasonable guy to deal with... Most of the ones on Amazon are from that Tom Hargrave fellow who went belly up and kept a lot of money that belonged to customers for orders he never filled... he was even on the local news where hes from...I would not deal with him myself.He keeps joining here under different screen names and pointing people to his products and has been banned at least two times for it.

I agree with those who say we each have to decide how to spend our time. The markups for these systems, especially Brew-Boss, are in line with business mark ups in general--50 to 70%. I don't begrudge someone making money off of me if they are providing a product that makes me delight in brewing all the more. And Brew Boss does that--and it's still a small enough operation that I get answers to my emails immediately for the owner/creator. Like any system, it has kinks and quirks, but what system doesn't?

As I said in a previous post, I feel like you get the most bang for your buck with Brew Boss--but it's not just about bargains. I'm willing to pay more for product if it does something unique that I want, even if overall it isn't as good a bargain. It just happens that Brew-Boss gave me both more control over the process with it's use of the Android AND was a bargain in comparison. I'm also intrigued (but have not yet bought) the hop additions gizmo. Next Christmas!

markgalli said:

I agree with those who say we each have to decide how to spend our time. The markups for these systems, especially Brew-Boss, are in line with business mark ups in general--50 to 70%. I don't begrudge someone making money off of me if they are providing a product that makes me delight in brewing all the more. And Brew Boss does that--and it's still a small enough operation that I get answers to my emails immediately for the owner/creator. Like any system, it has kinks and quirks, but what system doesn't?

As I said in a previous post, I feel like you get the most bang for your buck with Brew Boss--but it's not just about bargains. I'm willing to pay more for product if it does something unique that I want, even if overall it isn't as good a bargain. It just happens that Brew-Boss gave me both more control over the process with it's use of the Android AND was a bargain in comparison. I'm also intrigued (but have not yet bought) the hop additions gizmo. Next Christmas!

Click to expand...

when it comes to the High gravity how is $1,100 for $200-300 in hardware + 50 -70%? even with paying the builder $33 an hour for 3 hours labor your looking at well over 200% I have no idea what brew boss pays the manufacturer for making their control panels but they hadve software they had to write so there was more actual leg work done to develop that system.
the 16 gallon kettle is $120 with ballvalve (I have 2 of the same ones) and the pump is $110....

adpostel said:

I've also been thinking about an electric setup with an electric HLT/BK and cooler mash tun.

Click to expand...

This is how I'm setting up my system with a Brew Boss controller. Here is the thread I started on it: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/brew-boss-systems-475360/

I, like others who have posted in this thread, am more than capable of building my own controller. But I simply didn't want to use up my valuable free time on researching parts, ordering parts and assembly. When I looked into buying a prebuilt controller the Brew Boss was really the best bang for the buck. A lot went into developing the software interface for the controller. Something I would have never been able to have by building it myself (well without investing more time and money anyway).

I've pledged for the Brew Boss Kickstarter. I chose a pre-made system because I don't have the desire to spend an enormous amount of time researching and building my own electric brewing system. (Kudos to you who have done this!) I also have zero experience in working with electrical systems and, being cautious by nature, draw the line on DIY projects that could have potentially lethal results if not done correctly. (220v, 16 amp circuits are not something to casually experiment with.)

For me, I like how the Brew Boss software allows the user to set up the entire brewing process in a way that makes it easy for less experienced all grain brewers to get consistent results. I think this system is a great fit for folks who want to be able to begin all grain brewing straight out of the box. (I've got all the other equipment I need as I've been a malt extract/grain brewer for some time.)

By the way, for those who may be interested, there are only a couple of weeks left in the Brew Boss Kickstarter campaign. I'm still hoping that a large influx of interested folks near the end may allow this project to be fulfilled.

I have a quick question about the chugger pump. I thought it has to be below the kettle port, but the picture on the website shows it on the counter. I see that the flow from the kettle goes below the pump/kettle.

The question I have, once the pump is primed, will it work like this? (sucking wort from below the pump)?

Edit: I'm going to take back what I said because I'm not sure that's right. You definitely can't prime it from that position.

Why not just keep it on a shelf or small stand (I used a flipped over recycling bin for a long time) somewhere beneath the tabletop?

Here is the reply I received from Dave at High Gravity.

We rotate the pump head on the motor 90 degrees so that the input is at the low point. With the pump and vessel sitting on the same surface, the input is lower than the vessel output. Gravity helps to prime to pump this way. Sometimes it is necessary to stop the pump for a moment to let the initial air bubbles pass through, usually just once.

Another question. Could you pour wort from the top down to help prime the pump? Obviously easier with a quick disconnect and funnel. (Disconnect at top of kettle, pour in a bit of wort, reconnect?)

I have my system set up exactly as the picture and it primes itself every time. As long as the pump head is below the level of the wort it will prime. Be sure that the wort comes in from the bottom so that an air bubble does not cause cavitation. Just open the ball valve and wait for the wort or water to fill the pump, then switch it on. I have never had a problem.

I bought one of high gravity systems. All I have to say about the controller is that it is no doubt made like garbage. Speaker wire is used in the construction and it uses relays (epoxied to the enclosure) instead of a SSRs. When mine went out, I could have sent it back for repair but just made my own with the right parts.

I used A PID and SSR for heat control, just set the PID to 108-110 for boiling.

TSO33 said:

I bought one of high gravity systems. All I have to say about the controller is that it is no doubt made like garbage. Speaker wire is used in the construction and it uses relays (epoxied to the enclosure) instead of a SSRs. When mine went out, I could have sent it back for repair but just made my own with the right parts.

I used A PID and SSR for heat control, just set the PID to 108-110 for boiling.

Click to expand...

hmm you joined just to post this?... Not that I'm disagreeing with you as the HG system is completely a homemade setup from all the components I've seen but I'm kind of shocked that they use speaker cord since the insulation is not rated or safe that kind of use at all.(I was corrected about this myself about a year ago). and telays will have a fairly short life before failure in this type of application.
Especially for the prices they are asking which would realistically cover building it with top quality components and still come out under half of what they charge...It would be nice if someone could build the courage to take the cover off and post a picture as I asked before but it seems everyone who owns one would rather not know whats inside and would rather live in blissful ignorance....
Ironic since most of the owners of these claim they would rather pay the 2-300% markups for the "safety" and "professionally built " aspects of it.... you would think comments like yours would have raised more concerns by now

from what you state above I would have to adjust my estimates lower as the cost of materials would be much lower with shortcuts like that... All I have to say is this goes a long way to Prove that marketing can have more impact than quality for those who dont do their homework...

I'm actually kind of hoping the comments above are exaggerated and these things aren't built that poorly as much as it proves the point I was trying to make earlier..