Stout with only roasted barley (and 2-row)?

Baron von BeeGee · Nov 3, 2006

Has anybody tried this? Ray Daniels indicates in the section on stouts in DGB that most commercial stouts he used for datapoints included only roasted barley in addition to the base malt. Apparently this brews a great stout, but perhaps not differentiated much from others (especially in competition).

I'm interested in brewing a very basic, good stout. Has anybody tried this? I'm thinking as an experiment that I could then use as a base for "more interesting" recipes:
~90% 2-row (maybe a pound of flaked barley)
~10% roasted barley
BU:GU of 1:1
Irish Ale yeast

Chairman Cheyco · Nov 3, 2006

I brewed this and it turned out freaking awesome. I actually brewed it to 5.5 gal to keep it inside the guidelines. My BU:GU ratio wasn't as high as 1, but I'm sure that would be good. Keep it simple and you'll be really happy with it.
This is now my house stout and is definitely staying exactly the way it is.

Glibbidy · Nov 3, 2006

Hers is the profile I used from my simple stout which turned out great. You could skip the malted wheat, but I would recommend including the flaked barley to help maintain a mild taste (less malty) IMHO.
I used EKG for the only hops addition (Kettle). Gravity was just about dead on, although a little higher then most traditional Stouts.

Baron von BeeGee · Nov 3, 2006

Sweet, guys! (see how important punctuation is??) Good to know I'm barking up the right tree for once.

Chairman Cheyco · Nov 3, 2006

Baron von BeeGee said:
Sweet, guys! (see how important punctuation is??)

LOL

Glibbidy · Nov 3, 2006

Great minds think alike.

The profiles for these stouts are so dead on.

Chairman Cheyco · Nov 3, 2006

Hey glib, what was the reason you used wheat, head retention?

Glibbidy · Nov 3, 2006

Chairman Cheyco said:
Hey glib, what was the reason you used wheat, head retention?

Yes, typically I'll use 3-6% for head retention.

the_bird · Nov 3, 2006

See, I thought it was unmalted wheat that was used for head retention, or is it both?

Chairman Cheyco · Nov 3, 2006

You can use both, but unmalted will give you a greater chance of having haze in the final beer. Typically, you should use malted. I've stopped using it in my last few brews and haven't had any trouble with head retention at all.

the_bird · Nov 3, 2006

About 3% - 5% of the grain bill for the wheat? That about right?

Baron von BeeGee · Nov 24, 2006

Well, this one got kegged tonight (I'm fasttracking it a bit to help the pipeline), and boy did it dry out! 1.010 FG which sounds great. I think the roastiness will give it sufficient body along with carbonation. The flavor is just exactly what I was looking for...thanks CC & glibbidy!

Brewsmith · Nov 24, 2006

I think I'm going to try something similar for my next stout, although I like chocolate malt, so I think some will end up in there. I like to use flaked barley for head retention. Makes it nice and creamy without beer gas.

Baron von BeeGee · Nov 24, 2006

Yeah, I couldn't really make heads or tells of the flaked barley sans CO2 but I think it'll be nice. At least I've liked it when I've used it before. I may experiment with chocolate or kiln coffee malt on a future batch.

Brewsmith · Nov 24, 2006

I was puting together a recipe the other night and I just checked it. Here's what mine is going to look like:

8.5 lbs 2-row (British)
0.5 lbs Roasted Barley
0.5 lbs Chocolate Malt
0.5 lbs Flaked Barley

2 oz EKG 60 min

White Labs 004 Irish Ale Yeast

Nice and simple.

Baron von BeeGee · Nov 24, 2006

Very similar to mine, with the exception of replacing some of the RB with chocolate and I was a little heavier handed with the hops:

Old Blood and Guts

A ProMash Brewing Session - Recipe Details Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 5.50 Wort Size (Gal): 5.50
Total Grain (Lbs): 11.00
Anticipated OG: 1.048 Plato: 12.03
Anticipated SRM: 26.7
Anticipated IBU: 44.8
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
18.2 2.00 lbs. Flaked Barley America 1.032 2
72.7 8.00 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row) America 1.036 2
9.1 1.00 lbs. Roasted Barley Great Britain 1.029 350

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.

Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
76.00 g. Goldings - E.K. Whole 4.75 44.8 60 min.

Yeast
-----

WYeast 1084 Irish Ale

Brewsmith · Nov 24, 2006

What's that 76g? About 2.5-3 oz?

Baron von BeeGee · Nov 24, 2006

Yep, 2.75oz. I figured a stout could handle 0.9-1.0 BU:GU. I'll see how it goes and adjust as need be.

Brewsmith · Nov 24, 2006

Yeah, I'm going a little lighter with the hops. It's a bit of a compromise between me and my friends. If it's too hoppy or bitter, they won't touch it.

mysterio · Nov 26, 2006

I use about 80% pale ale malt, 5% flaked barley & 5% roasted barley.

I also used 5% sugar and US-56 yeast to get the good attenuation of a dry stout but I wasn't pleased with it. The yeast gave flavours which weren't very stout-like.

Baron von BeeGee · Nov 26, 2006

I got 79% ADF with the Irish Ale yeast which surprised me, but I mashed low, had plenty of fermentables, and oxygenated the wort pretty well.

Baron von BeeGee · Feb 24, 2007

After initial disappointment, this beer actually tastes like a stout now. Not knock your socks of wow this guy can brew good, but I'll drink it. Two things:
1) My roasted barley was around 350L. WTH? It should be like 550L. That probably had a negative impact on the flavor.
2) My hopping rate, while probably not as much of a flaw as my botched roasted barley, was a tad high. I'll take it into the 0.6-0.8 range next time.

Dude · Feb 24, 2007

Baron, I'm going to brew this when I visit you guys in April.

I can't brew a good stout here because of the water--and when I try to treat it I get a weird sourness--so I'll just wait until April to try again.

These recipes look great. This is exactly what I want.

Chairman Cheyco · Feb 24, 2007

FWIW, I just brewed mine again and it turned out awesome. Kept the BU:GU to 0.75 again as well, and used NB hops for the mintyness. Easily one of my best beers.

Brewsmith · Feb 24, 2007

Mine was a slight deviation to the two ingredients, but I really like it. I'm not a huge fan of tons of roasted flavor in a lower gravity stout, and mine is about perfect.

8.5 lbs 2-row
0.5 lb. Roasted Barley
0.5 lb. Chocolate Malt
0.5 lb. Flaked Barley

1 60 min addition of EKG's for 37 IBU's

WLP-004

OG: 1.050

BU:GU is right about 0.75

I don't think I'll change this recipe. I'll keep it as the house Dry Stout. If I want something bigger, roastier and hoppier I'll do an American Stout.

Baron von BeeGee · Feb 25, 2007

Dude...cool. I like mine as of yesterday, but I think it would be really good with the proper roasted barley. My LHBS kind of pisses me off sometimes, but I do like the guys and having them around so I try to give them half my business anyways.

CC, I'm definitely dropping the hopping rate down. It's not that bad, but you do get some overt hoppiness with mine which is a bit odd in a stout. It doesn't need to be winter for me to enjoy a stout, so I might give it another shot this spring.

Brewsmith, my next step after I get this basic recipe "right" is to start experimenting with other malts like chocolate, kilned coffee malt, maybe carafa (just the German equivalent, I know, but the deshusked stuff is really smooth).

Baron von BeeGee · Sep 27, 2008

Baron von BeeGee said:
Brewsmith, my next step after I get this basic recipe "right" is to start experimenting with other malts like chocolate, kilned coffee malt, maybe carafa (just the German equivalent, I know, but the deshusked stuff is really smooth).

Bump. Well, I think after not brewing any stouts for a while, I'm ready to take this cause back up. I wasn't blown away from my initial effort, and I really think this is due to the light roasted barley that my LHBS sells in the 300-350L range instead of the 500L stuff. I'd like to just order the good stuff from Austin or Northern, but I need to go by the LHBS anyways, so I'm going to try it again.

This time I will add some chocolate malt as Brewsmith suggests, and since the LHBS has then in the 415-450L range it should help with color and 'stoutness'. I'm also going to lower the IBU's as Cheyco and et al. recommend, probably in the 0.7 range. I'm not sure if I'll go with a liquid Irish yeast, or some dry yeast.

7# 2-row
2# flaked barley
1# roasted barley (300L)
1/2-3/4# chocolate malt (415L)
2.25 oz EKG @ 4.75AAU = 36IBU

brewt00l · Sep 27, 2008

Baron von BeeGee said:
7# 2-row
2# flaked barley
1# roasted barley (300L)
1/2-3/4# chocolate malt (415L)
2.25 oz EKG @ 4.75AAU = 36IBU

FWIW, my house dry stout is typically:
6.0 lb English 2-row Pale
1.75 lb Barley Flaked
13.0 oz Roast Barley
2.0 oz Acidulated Malt
1.5 oz Willamette (5.0%) - added during boil, boiled 60 min (32.8 IBU)
White Labs WLP007 Dry English Ale

I tossed in 6oz of chocolate malt in the last batch and I prefer the original recipe.

Baron von BeeGee · Sep 27, 2008

brewt00l said:
FWIW, my house dry stout is typically:
6.0 lb English 2-row Pale
1.75 lb Barley Flaked
13.0 oz Roast Barley
2.0 oz Acidulated Malt
1.5 oz Willamette (5.0%) - added during boil, boiled 60 min (32.8 IBU)
White Labs WLP007 Dry English Ale

I tossed in 6oz of chocolate malt in the last batch and I prefer the original recipe.

Yeah, I have a feeling I really need to get the 2-row/flaked barley/roasted barley grist down pat before complicating matters, but this stupid 300L roasted barley is driving me nuts. The original recipe posted in this thread looked more like a dark brown ale than a stout. If it's not up to par this time around I'll brew another one in quick succession using proper ingredients from Austin or Northern.

Stinkonamonkey · Sep 27, 2008

What are you guys getting for FG on these stouts? I did a partial mash kit from my LHBS and used a WLP004 liquid yeast. Its was in primary for a month and has been in secondary for 2 weeks. Last time I checked it was sitting right around 1.026. Started at 1.061 I think. I was expecting it to get down to 1.015 or so per the kits instruction sheet.

I pitched a pack of rehydrated safeale S05 on top of it when it went into secondary, but never saw any evidence of fermentation. I need to go and check it again to see where it sits.

Stout with only roasted barley (and 2-row)?

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