Derek Dellinger's Goatpants

burninator · May 19, 2015

I brewed this recipe Sunday, according to his specifications. My yeast pitch isn't quite so precise, but I think I've approximated it with a combination of Belle Saison, wild lacto, and dregs from a couple of Crooked Stave beers.

It's a low gravity Saison with no boil hops and a hefty dose of dry hop citra.

Anybody ever attempted this recipe, or one like it? Care to share your experience, if so?

http://www.bear-flavored.com/2014/06/dry-hopped-sour-farmhouse-ale-recipe.html

View attachment 1432082055365.jpg

BGBC · May 21, 2015

I've got something similar going now. Brewed about a month ago, so no results yet. I have a thread going here: Petite Farmhouse

Basically subbed Vienna for the rye in the Goatpants recipe and I used TYB Farmhouse Sour and their Beersel Brett blend, pitched together.

Still thinking about what to dry hop it with. Might wait to see what flavors the yeast/bugs bring to the table.

BGBC · May 21, 2015

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1432231834.116098.jpg

burninator · May 22, 2015

BGBC said:
I've got something similar going now. Brewed about a month ago, so no results yet. I have a thread going here: Petite Farmhouse

Basically subbed Vienna for the rye in the Goatpants recipe and I used TYB Farmhouse Sour and their Beersel Brett blend, pitched together.

Still thinking about what to dry hop it with. Might wait to see what flavors the yeast/bugs bring to the table.

Interesting. How'd you settle on those blends?

Guess you're about a month ahead of me. We'll have to compare notes.

BTW the pic in the first post is about 16 hours after pitching. I built up a starter with a gallon of Belgian pale ale. In the pic, you can see the lacto climbing the carboy walls in the background. The Belle Saison was cranking away about 8 hours later.

BGBC · May 22, 2015

I had read the Bear Flavored post when it was first posted, but didn't look back at it until after I started developing the recipe.

I basically wanted a relatively quick fermenting (low gravity, no Pedio), tart (yes Lacto), slightly funky (hi fruity Brett strains) Saison (um, saison yeast). I couldn't find anyone putting it all together in one blend, but those two from TYB seemed to fit the bill.

burninator · May 26, 2015

Makes sense. In a way, I do regret not exercising a bit more control over the mix of organisms I pitched, but, conversely, I'm hoping this results in a fairly quick acting (2 months?) house saison blend. If so, I could see keeping a batch of something in the carboy at all times, with this culture.

BGBC · May 26, 2015

I've seen various people say that CS has some pedio in at least some of their bottles. My house sour culture started with mostly CS dregs, but I wanted to use something different since I know I have some pedio in there (either from CS or Jester King).

Considering the low OG of the recipe, it should still finish relatively quickly either way though.

burninator · May 26, 2015

Yeah, I'm almost certain they use pedio at CS, though I'm not sure whether there's any viable bacteria in the dregs.

Talking to someone at Crooked Stave, he seemed sure that a beer brewed with these dregs could be turned around in as little as a month, though 2 months was recommended.

youreanimpulse · May 26, 2015

That's great to hear. I have a starter of their sours and a starter of Vielle and Surette that I'm stepping up today. I've been enjoying my own Brett/Lacto blends taking only about 2 mos. Pedio scares me a little, as it usually takes longer...

youreanimpulse · May 26, 2015

Not that I don't have a closet full of the long-term stuff. Out of sight, out of mind.

burninator · May 26, 2015

Forgot to include what I actually brewed in the original post.

6 lbs 2-row
14 oz white wheat
14 oz rye malt

OG 1.038
5 minute boil

0 hops...this will get some sort of heavy dry hop, just before bottling. I really like the idea of a big Citra addition in the fermenter, but I'm considering using Cascade, in some capacity, as well.

The pic in the OP was taken about 16 hours after pitching, and a few hours before the Belle Saison destroyed my beautiful pellicle.

burninator · Jun 2, 2015

Two weeks in, and there's very little airlock activity, and no surface activity that I can see through the carboy. How soon is it prudent to take a reading? Three weeks? A month?

burninator · Jun 3, 2015

I posted this elsewhere, but as I consider when to start looking at finishing this up, Dellinger's post on his site has me interested. Seems he let his first batch go almost 3 months, but it was likely done long before that.

BGBC · Jun 4, 2015

If you wanted to bottle sooner, I have a feeling it would be ready earlier. Whenever gravity stabilizes, you can bottle it. I think the 3 month mark is giving it a safe cushion. Maybe start checking gravity every couple weeks after the 4 week mark?

burninator · Jun 5, 2015

youreanimpulse said:
That's great to hear. I have a starter of their sours and a starter of Vielle and Surette that I'm stepping up today. I've been enjoying my own Brett/Lacto blends taking only about 2 mos. Pedio scares me a little, as it usually takes longer...

Yeah, I thought that was really ambitious, but if I understand correctly, they're turning around their ales in relatively short amounts of time.

BGBC said:
If you wanted to bottle sooner, I have a feeling it would be ready earlier. Whenever gravity stabilizes, you can bottle it. I think the 3 month mark is giving it a safe cushion. Maybe start checking gravity every couple weeks after the 4 week mark?

I think I'll attempt a schedule something like this. My thought is that somewhere around 6 weeks is where I'll start taking readings, and maybe continue that until the 8 or 9 week mark, at which point, I should be ready to bottle. I have a couple of other beers ahead of this one in the pipeline, so there's no big hurry, but I'd definitely like to be drinking it while summer is still in full swing.

burninator · Jun 24, 2015

This Sunday will mark 6 weeks since I started this beer, and it will probably mark the first of at least 2 (probably 3) weekly gravity readings. I'm encouraged by bottling a pale ale that was brewed with this exact mixture 2 months ago, with a higher OG, that progressed and stabilized quickly. That one came out brightly tart, with a background funk that I assume will come more to the fore as it ages.

So my question is this: What is the recommendation for the amount of dry-hopping this should get? The original recipe suggests 4oz of Citra. I love a dry-hopped saison like nothing else, but does that seem like overkill? I have the hops, but I don't want to use 4oz, when 2oz might do just as well.

m00ps · Jun 24, 2015

depends on how much you like citra I guess. I usually go moderate dry hopping on all ym saisons, if any. I like them for the yeast character. If I want a punch fo hops, Ill drink an IPA.

I think 2oz would be fine

burninator · Jun 24, 2015

m00ps said:
depends on how much you like citra I guess. I usually go moderate dry hopping on all ym saisons, if any. I like them for the yeast character. If I want a punch fo hops, Ill drink an IPA.

I think 2oz would be fine

Interesting. Even given that these would be the only hops in this beer?

m00ps · Jun 24, 2015

Sure, the dry hops will only be competing with the funky wild aroma of the beer. 4oz may be enough to mask it while 2oz may let them both be detectable

BGBC · Jun 24, 2015

Cross-pollinating threads here, but I've been thinking about the same question for my petite farmhouse. I signed up for the AHA using their free hop code and am hoping the 4 oz of each Azacca and Jarrylo arrives soon for this. I'm thinking a few ounces of Azacca might be an interesting addition.

burninator · Jun 24, 2015

I debated posting there, actually, as I'm itching for an update on yours. You think you'll toss in the whole package of Azacca? That does sound really interesting. I'm torn between trying to be as prudent and frugal with a more expensive hop and sticking as closely to the original recipe as I can, since it's my first time through.

BGBC · Jun 24, 2015

No update for now. Trying to schedule the right time to bottle, since the beer is at my friend's place.

Might split the difference and go with 3 oz dry hop, just so I can maybe play with the leftover in a small batch SMaSH or something.

burninator · Jun 25, 2015

Yeah, it'll probably just come down to a gut call, made as the hops are going into the fermenter, for me. I'll post a reading in a couple of days.

burninator · Jun 28, 2015

I checked this today. It's at 1.006, adjusted. 1.004 at 75F.

Let me tell you, this thing is tart and dry. Imagine lemonade without the sugar, but dry like a shot of gin. My mouth is watering just thinking about that sample in the refrigerator. I can't wait to see what a big shot of citra hops will do for this beer. I'm thinking I might just go all out and put 4oz of hops in it.

burninator · Jun 28, 2015

Meant to attach this.

View attachment 1435540933422.jpg

burninator · Jul 6, 2015

Took another reading yesterday. Still at 1.006, adjusted for temp.

This time I let it chill most of the day before drinking the sample. Let me tell you, this beer is bracingly sour. It makes my jaw tense up. It's literally slightly painful.

I love it.

Guess it's time to make a decision. Think I'm probably going to continue the recipe, as written by Dellinger, and do 4 ounces of citra. He prescribes 8 days, but that's considerably more than I usually dry-hop. Any thoughts on letting them go that long before bottling?

foltster · Jul 6, 2015

There has been some discussion of low ph in sour beers slowing the absorption of dry hop aromas and flavors, but nothing definitive has been published that I have seen anyway. Not sure if there is any real truth to it, but I have seen temperature affect dry hopping time (colder takes longer for me). I don't think waiting 8 days will cause any issues for you.

burninator · Jul 6, 2015

Here's my thinking:

I can do 8 days, though it will delay my bottling by a week, as I'll have to toss in the hops this Friday and plan to bottle the following Saturday.

However, if the extra time won't really benefit anything, I can potentially rack tonight, add hops, and bottle this weekend.

burninator · Jul 11, 2015

Decided on 7 to 8 days, but life got in the way. I'm going to rack this to a bucket today with a hop bag full of citra hops, and I plan to bottle in a week.

Now, what to do with the slurry? :ban:

burninator · Jul 12, 2015

Racked today and added 4oz citra. Collected a little under 5 gallons in the bucket
View attachment 1436731618937.jpg

and more than a cup of special sauce in a pint jar.
View attachment 1436731632810.jpg

Derek Dellinger's Goatpants

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