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Fair enough. I'll come back here with the comments when I have them, and maybe this will be the only time I enter a sour. But hopefully judging in these categories will improve as more people start to brew and drink these styles. On a similar note, I'd be equally cautious about entering...

Yes, definitely, I think that's what it suggests. I guess I'm wondering if de Baets was suggesting that this kind of thing was a misinterpretation of the Belgian process (I've read other people question whether starches are important as Sparrow suggests). Or if he just meant that the practice...

Here's what Jeff Sparrow says about corn in Flanders Reds: He suggests its a source of starch in the wort, and that this is beneficial over the course of fermentation. I wonder if this is an example of Sparrow offering his own interpretation of Belgian practices without really acknowledging...

Yeah I've heard this before, and based on it I probably wouldn't submit sours to most competitions (unless it was something like a berlinerweisse maybe). But this is a fairly big comp, so I'm hoping the judging will be good. It's not a great beer either, so I'm not expecting it to do...

Oh, the official BJCP guidelines actually list "Fruit-Based Flanders Red/Brown" as an example of 16E. Thanks for the advice.

Yes, that was what one of the judges said about the saison. (The other said Geuze, which I found very strange. I'd describe the beer as lightly acidic at best.) I got similar advice from someone else about submitting this in 16E, so I think that's what I'll do.

I'm looking for some guidance on submitting some sour beers into competitions. I've only entered one competition before, with a saison brewed with WLP 670. It picked up some tartness and funk from the brett, very low level but still perceptible. The judges scored it low, at 22, with most of...

I'm planning a recipe inspired by a beer I've never actually tasted, De La Senne's Stouterik. My idea is to take a basic dry Irish Stout recipe and ferment it with Wyeast 3522 (Ardennes) in the mid-60s. I've found that this yeast is fairly subdued at this temperature, and it can add a...

Check out the second beer the BBR guys brew in . Starts at about 6 minutes in. I haven't brewed it yet, but I'll do something like it some time soon.

I use better bottles for my sours. I have also reused them for non-sour beers, though out of caution I tend to only use them for saisons because they are dry and not necessarily harmed by a bit of funk. I keep a few dedicated better bottles for my regular beers.

I'm in.

I like this idea. I was hoping to get some control over carbonation by fermenting the young beer with a highly attenuative yeast. For me, both 3711 and Belle Saison consistently take beers down to 1.000 or 0.999. I've used them when I want to dose bottles with brett, because I know can pretty...

Has anyone here tried this sort of thing? I was listening to the Jester King episode of the Sunday Session tonight, and they go through the details of how the brew Das Wunderkind. My girlfriend's family live in Texas, so I've tried a couple of JK beers, but never this one. It's a 3:1 mix of...

So if we've got his process right, I would guess that the butyric acid probably came from enteric bacteria that survived the mash and fermented some of the wort before the lacto dropped the pH.

I think by knockout at 120 he means he cooled it to 120, then transferred it to the fermenter. That would make sense I think if he wanted to encourage lactobacillus to grow.

I'm going through it again now. He says it was "spontaneously soured in a berlinerweisse style where it was a no boil ... knockout at 120F into fermenter and let it go". Then a few minutes later he says that the "souring was only with the bugs because there wasn't any yeast in the malt", so...

I couldn't really piece together what his original process was from the interview. He mentions that there was no boil, but I was unclear as to whether he pitched some combination of bacteria/yeast, or alllowed whatever survived the mash temps to ferment the beer, or something else. I thought I...

Blending with smaller batches seems like a great idea. I've also never tasted any of Chad Y's beers, which I guess puts you at a slight disadvantage in trying to understand some of what he's talking about. But then again, it's nice to let your imagination run wild---Yvan de Baets chapter in...

Or, if Natto is not something most people have around fermenting, how about Kombucha? This also contains lots of the relevant fatty acids. Maybe if you pitched some actively fermenting tea along with a healthy pitch of brett you would get low level production of these acids before the yeast...

Yes, I was hoping that would be the purpose served by this thread: suggesting new areas for investigation. I'd heard this too, and it got me thinking about whether there might be ways to introduce such bacteria as we do with other things we want to ferment our wort. Here's what I found out...