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Reporting back... Well, my Philly Sour Saison is just OK. After a 10 days of carbonating it's drinking like a slightly tart wheat beer. The ph only got to 3.8, at least on this first measure. (Will measure again this weekend.) The high ph is disappointing, because I used 5% corn sugar...

So here's a true story that recently happened: I wasn't happy with my Golden Strong, so I dumped it and started over -- with just TWO WEEKS until I had to submit it to competition. It finished in 7 days and I kept it in the fermenter another 7 days to settle via soft crash. I bottled it with...

I had to look up that HA 18. What a beast! I wonder if it works for high ABV Belgians?

Oh, I see what you mean. 70% isn't all that great, though I bet a lot of strains are around there. I think that's actually about what the OP got, so it seems his recipe likely worked fine after figuring out the measurements.

True, that. I often use BE-134 and it eats everything! I can't remember if he posted his mash temp, but that sure seems like a nicely fermentable wort to me? The sugar alone is going to drive some fermentation, and I'd think the DME will ferment nicely?

Ah, I missed that final FG. 1.022 seems more reasonable, though with that much sugar I might have guessed lower. When I use two pounds of sugar my Belgian beers sometimes finish under 1.000!

Agree, it should be very fermentable. Once I started using the proper pitch rates and above (i.e. not what the yeast manufacturer recommends), my beers got a ton better. Seems simple in retrospect, but I was using one packet of yeast for years before I figured it out. I threw three packets...

He had 1.073 for OG. Was there a final predicted FG or corrected measurement? Yeah, bit of a stretch, but there are certainly factors that could have caused it. If I missed by that much I'd pitch more yeast...

I was using the original numbers from the OP. I'm not sure if we ever got the final corrected numbers? I did see that someone calculated predicted FG of 1.022, which is in the ballpark of 1.039 if a few procedures were off.... And not enough yeast pitched to do the trick...

Not sure if this was covered, but what did the recipe calculator predict for the FG? From my view, with such a high OG and so little yeast pitched, that FG does not seem totally unreasonable, combined with some other factors. I would have pitched two packs of yeast at least, and probably some...

Sounds good. I usually see a 9 or 10 degree rise. I hold it at the highest temp it reaches between 75 and 80. Good luck!

One of my favorite styles.. I recommend pitching plenty of yeast, and pitching at 68. Let it free rise to 78 or so. Don't exceed 80. But if you really want a Duvel clone, pitch a bit lower temp. Personally, I like a bit more flavor than Duvel.

Sure, the style doesn't have to be close to 1.000 to be good. What's your FG? I wouldn't actually backsweeten, but you could mash higher next time. And cut the sugar assuming you are using some.

It does occur to me that I will likely be able to tell if the Saison strains are working... I'm at 1.009 now, and I doubt the Philly can get below 1.005. If I hit 1.000 or .998, I think it's safe to say I will have a sour Saison.

In this case I can't co-pitch because the 2nd yeast would outcompete the Philly. But I think I could pitch sooner and pitch a healthier amount. In this case I pitched after it dropped 20 SGs, but I could try pitching the second yeast after 10, though that would mean the beer won't be as sour...

Have you ever heard of a specific Saison strain that tolerates low pH? Seems like 3711 and Be-134 are NOT up to the task.

A separate fermentation may indeed be the way to go. Maybe I will try splitting the batch next time.

The manufacturer says the Philly has to be pitched first or it will be outcompeted by the other yeast... But I had not considered that the low ph would cause the second yeast not to work. I almost always pitch blends, so starters aren't really on my list, personally. I used to make...

It is possible the 3711 and be-134 are working, of course, though it's impossible to tell. There is definitely yeast in suspension. So it sounds like a big pitch is one thing to try next time, if I don't end up with a Saison this time. I think I will pitch it sooner, too. Maybe after the...

Do you think a massive pitch could have overcome this? I usually pitch big, but this one was at 1.028 when I pitched the 3711, so I figured that would do the trick. The original recipe had the Be-134, and I had considered one more too. (I usually pitch really big and have had great results.)