Black Currant Weizenbock

[Maegnar]

There's a recipe, that's brewing in my head and it's taking shape in really small steps. So to maybe hasten it a bit - I'd like to share it with you and maybe get some advice on it.

A bit of backstory:
There's a small piece of memory in my head from childhood about seeing a movie, where some guy made Black Currant ale and went to a competition with it. And while he didn't get the 1st prize, he received a complimetary from the judges and the beer was praised for strength and flavor.

So I have decided to go with something stronger than your usual Pale Ale and with more flavor. Weizenbock came to mind, as phenols of the Blanche yeast should go well with currant's aroma.
Therefore the recipe:

Wheat malt (dark) - 3.5kg
Pilsner malt - 3kg
Special B - 0.4kg
---
Bramling cross (6% AA) - 25g @60min
Bramling cross (6% AA) - 25g @30min
Bramling cross (6% AA) - 25g @10min
---
Black currant leaves - 50~100g @10min
Black currant berries - 100g @ 10min (not sure if I'll be using berries, need consideration)
---
Brewferm Blanche yeast

Bramling Cross was chosen for it's black currant-like aroma.
I'm considering to use leaves for aroma (and I think it will be greater than in berries). And I'm considering to drop berries due to their high acidity. My tap whater is medium Ph and additional acid might make it too soft for a darker beer.

Nothing here is set into stone yet. Even the style might change if someone will present a stong enough argument against weizen. Therefore all and any of your thoughts on the recipe are wellcome.
Thanks.

 

[Maegnar]

Anyone?

 

[Maegnar]

this is a last bump.
I really need help here, especially on the amounts of berries and leaves and when to add them.
I've already found out that the berries should not be boiled due to pectine extraction, rather they should be added during the cooling or even later, with temps not exceeding 80C.

 

[buzzerj]

I've made black current mead before using 100% pure black current juice. So the black current is used as a flavoring. I would think that would be an alternative for you to employ by adding it to your primary after sanitizing the juice with sodium metabisulphite for 24 hours. I definitely would resist any higher temperature exposure to the juice to avoid denaturing it or driving off the volatiles which would reduce the flavors you're wanting. I would think you may want to consider a brew and blend type scheme here to determine how much black current to add. One thing I know about black current wines is be prepared for hangovers.

 

[gratus fermentatio]

Black currants are little flavourbombs, they can easily dominate other flavours. They're also quite tart & contain about 256% of the USRDA of vitamin C (ascorbic acid).

I think the 100g is a good place to start, tho you you should taste the wort as you go to see if you want to add more or not. If you do, I'd add them in small increments.

To maximize the extraction of those currants, I'd put them through a freeze/thaw, freeze/thaw cycle; this will help to break down cell walls & will extract more juice.

Speaking of juice, you could use black currant juice or puree, but I'm not certain how to calculate the berries to juice ratio. I'm curious as to why the black currant leaves, do they have a particular flavour? I've never tasted the leaves, but I've tasted rasberry leaf & can only assume currant leaves would have a similar vegetal flavour.
Regards, GF.

 

[LexusChris]

For what it is worth, I created a recipe for a Weizenbock with some black currant focus. Although, mine was entirely hop derived.. no berries or leaves used.

Recipe: Chevalier de Orages 2
Brewer: LexusChris
Style: Weizenbock
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: A: Dark brown w/reddish highlights. Head is thick & firm.
S: Malty with hints of clove & black currant. Slightly bready.
T: Malt & biscuit in front. Clove spice flavor mid palette, which eases into light berry/currant finish. Slightly spicy in aftertaste.
M: Medium to full with med carbonation. Slight bite but malt persists.
O: Exactly where I wanted this one to go. Malty dark wheat beer with a spicy flavor & hits of black currant. The Strisselspalt hops are very well played here making this a nice twist on a classic german Weizenbock.

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 7.21 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.24 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.92 gal
Estimated OG: 1.081 SG
Estimated Color: 24.0 SRM
Estimated IBU: 19.6 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 76.4 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
3.00 g Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 2 -
3.00 g Chalk (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 3 -
2.00 g Baking Soda (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 4 -
9.00 lb Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 5 52.5 %
3.50 lb Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 6 20.4 %
2.50 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 7 14.6 %
0.75 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 8 4.4 %
0.75 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 9 4.4 %
0.40 lb Carafa II (412.0 SRM) Grain 10 2.3 %
0.25 lb Caraaroma (130.0 SRM) Grain 11 1.5 %
0.50 lb Rice Hulls (unfermentable) (Mash 60.0 mi Other 12 -
1.10 oz Strisslespalt [2.30 %] - First Wort 20.0 Hop 13 4.5 IBUs
0.60 oz Pearle [9.30 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 14 15.0 IBUs
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 15 -
0.50 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 mins) Other 16 -
1.0 pkg Bavarian Weizen Yeast (White Labs #WLP351 Yeast 17 -


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 17.15 lb
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 5.32 gal of water at 166.0 F 154.0 F 60 min

Sparge: Batch sparge with 2 steps (0.47gal, 3.73gal) of 168.0 F water
Notes:
------
Was short on CaraAroma, so used 2.6 oz CaraAroma + 1.4 oz C-120.

My tasting notes are at the top. My local water is high in pH (8.1), so my water adjustments were made accordingly. This was my 2nd attempt at the recipe, and I really like where it ended up.

Not sure where to go with berries or leaves, but it sounds like a great combo. Mine was a Weizenbock first, and I thought the black-currant from the Strisselspalt would play well. I also think the WLP351 yeast was a key piece of this. It produces more phenols and spice, and is not too heavy on the banana esters. I fermented it low anyways, to keep it in balance.

Good luck!
--LexusChris

 

[Maegnar]

Wow, I have already lost hope to get any help in here

I've gathered some more info on this topic, so here:
Yes, black currants are high on ascorbic acid. Therefore it makes no sense to worry about PH - it will be low, whatever you do. There's also pectin in them and one should avoid boiling them or even bringing them higher than 80C, otherwise there will be flakes floating in the beer (while not as bad for Weizen, might be bad for other types of beer).
Also not only berries are flavor bombs, but also leaves. While probably not too tasty to eat - they give a nice smell when rubbed between hands They are also used to pickle cucumbers ))
Since posting of the initial question, the recipe was altered a bit - I've ditched Special-B and currant leaves.
I'll probably hot-bathe 1kg of berries in ~75C. Then squeeze the juice out of them and will add it to fermenter after it's cooled off after boil. Other option is to add berries into fermenter during cooling, after the wort reaches ~75C, but I'm a bit worried about contaminating it.

This will most likely give me a fruit beer, rather than weizenbock, but it should be tasty

 

[gratus fermentatio]

You could use pectic enzyme to break down the pectins in the berries, tho with a weizen I don't see any need to do so. If you feel the need, you could sanitize those berries by sulfiting them 12-24 hrs before you brew; tho if you're adding crushed black currants & juice to boiling hot wort, even at flameout, I would think that hot wort would kill just about anything hitching a ride on the fruit.
Regards, GF.

 

[Maegnar]

As I said, I plan to avoid pectin extraction by skipping the boil. i'll add berries to ~79~75C water, let them sit there, then squeeze and add the juice to the chilled wort.