Automated Brewery Valve Layout Diagrams

[Squeeky]

One of the fun aspects of automation is designing your valves and flow diagrams. I would like to start a thread should valve layouts and system designs. If you have any to contribute please do so. All that I will post are references to ones I have found online. I am currently in design phase of my own system just gathering parts.

http://www.brewtroller.com/downloads/btbrew.pdf

 

[jpalarchio]

This is what I was using at one point, I've since changed but perhaps it could help others...

 

[JonW]

I kind of like this one....lol.

I modified this layout to T the therminator output back into the BK return. That way I can do a chill/recirc back to the kettle before going to the fermenter. If your ground water is cold enough (mine isn't) you might be able to go straight to the fermenter in one pass of the chiller.

Are you planning on doing HERMS or RIMS?

 

[Squeeky]

My current setup is herms three vessel, but I'm seriously considering two vessel. I'm using a BT3.3, due to pressure sensors for volume. I have 12 valves at my disposal and want to make a system that also controls water in.

In a dream world I would make the Control panel 120v, and the 240v power a module box. So that if I wanted I could run same control panel on kitchen setup for small test batches. Then go to a 55 gal setup when I win lottery .

Due to budget I'm looking to keep at 2 pumps but might increase then with DC solar pumps for better flow control during sparge.

 

[TheFlyingBeer]

Here is the latest overview for my system currently under build. Uses 4 solenoid valves for tap or RO water and 7 automated ball valves. I am assisted by the pumps as they are peristaltic and essentially act as closed valves when not running.

 

[jmark]

Here are Visio diagrams of my valve setup along with a pic of the actual plumbing. Right now, the valves are manual, but will be replaced in time with automated valves.

 

[jdub44]

Here is the very simple schematic that is on my control panel. This is for a RIMs System controlled by Brewtroller. I also have views that show the LED status for each Brewtroller valve profile I can add in too.

 

[goingmad]

Hi Squeeky, nice to see you here again!

As you should remember my HERMS bt powered system is under heavy build, I hope to complete and test it in less than a couple of weeks.

this is my flows schema

10 motorized valves (7 two ways and 3 three ways) and two March pumps.

That means a lot of wires and connectors to weld!

My setup with all the different phases: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/myherms-project-293873/

cheers


gm

 

[kladue]

Here is a screen schematic for the automatic brewing system I cobbled together

and a construction picture from software testing and tuning stage

 

[Squeeky]

Kladue,

Just wanted to say . . . Speechless.

Crazy DIY automation setup, I tip my brewing hat.

 

[Squeeky]

My Attempt at diagram:

 

[yeqmaster]

What actuated valves are you all using? I am looking at doing a similar setup to some of these and am trying to source decent 3 way, stainless, actuated ball valves at a reasonable cost (<$100). The only ones I seem to be able to find are these:
http://www.oscsys.com/3-Way-Motorized-Ball-Valve.html

I am not particularly wild about this choice because the threads are BSP and the voltage is 12V. I would much prefer NPT and 24V. I doubt there is anything affordable out there but my ideal valve would be a 1/2" actuated sanitary ball valve. Know of anything?

 

[Squeeky]

Nope that is likely the best deal on 3-ways. I checked into them from the company I got my 2-ways from and they do not make SS versions. The KLD brand ones OSCSYS sells are quality. Plus I doubt you would notice much a difference from BSP and NPT if using silicone tape.

 

[OneHoppyGuy]

ok Kladue... there's so much stuff there, where is the 'one touch'

Seen this before. Simply incredible!

 

[kladue]

Once the malt is in the hopper, hop bags are hung, fermenter connected, you hit autorun icon on touch screen and walk away. It is the automated version of the original flash boiler brewing system, and was designed to let me do other brewery chores while it was doing the brewing. The only items that are not shelf items are the flash boiler fittings (swagelok cap and cross welded together and drilled), and the screen in the steam into wort diffuser.

 

[yeqmaster]

OK.KLD valves it is then. Do you really think you can get away with NPT male on BSP female? For some reason, I kind of doubt it... I'm going to try to source some BSPxSanitary fittings. BTW, since this is more of a schematic thread, here is my schematic. Boxes represent digital outputs/inputs (DO/DI) or analog outputs/inputs (AO/AI). Box w/ circle leading to burner represents Honeywell furnace valve...

Before I commence with purchasing... feedback would be greatly appreciated!

Kladue, I know you seem to be the expert on the Honeywell gas valve stuff... Does what I have look reasonable. From the propane, the first regulator should drop the pressure down to 10psi and the second should drop down to the low pressure (1/2 psi). From there the gas line branches 3 ways... Each path has a Honeywell VR8200 as well as a manual control valve. The burners are 23 tip jet burners. Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[yeqmaster]

Oh a couple more clarifying comments:
-valves w/ box and "M" are motorized, valves w/ out are manual.
-box after water supply "from hose" is plate heat exchanger and inlet/outlet are opposite corners.

 

[kladue]

Ok, have you checked with brewers hardware? they might be able to weld up a 1/2" BSP pipe nipple into a tri-clover flange to make it work. The gas diagram looks right, but I would strongly advise against using jet burners, use the 10" banjo burners and save the grief of trying to make the jet burners work. Buy 10" (BG-14)for HLT and BK, and a 6" (BG-12) for the mash tun, and source the low pressure jets from One Hoppy Guy. This has proven to be the best setup for low pressure propane around, jet burners have not worked all that well because of the design and construction flaws, and most have gone on to the banjo burners.

 

[JonW]

I would agree with you on the NPT versus BSP issue except on 1/2" plumbing. For 1/2" size, the threads match up very well. There are many people using them without issue. These are not high pressure systems.

 

[kladue]

1/2" NPT will go about 3/4-1 turn into a BSP threaded fitting and get tight because thread pitch is different, better to get the correct threads than force it and have it gall up and ruin both the male and female threads. Working with internationally manufactured devices I am quite familiar with what works and what does not when it comes to threaded connections. If you can not get a custom fitting then an adapter from BSPT to NPT will solve the problem.

 

[yeqmaster]

Huh. Good to know about the BSP to NPT. I will give it a shot. Is Brewers Hardware the best source for NPTxTri Flange?

Kladue- thanks for the pointer on the burners... It's a shame because those jet burners look so damn cool when they are all fired up! I suppose it's best to do what is proven to work though. As far as ordering the VR8200 gas valves, what do they come with and what will I still need to purchase? Do they come with the pilot compression fitting and tubing? I assume they do not come with the pilot burner? What about the thermocouple or whatever it is they use to verify the pilot is lit?

Thanks in advance.

 

[yeqmaster]

Oh... Ok, just saw your post Kladue... That is what I am thinking too... I have had a lot of bad experiences with stainless gauling.. the last thing I want to do is ruin my valve body at $80 a pop... I found these guys:

http://www.mfgaa.com/triclamps.html

Looks like they can do it, its just a matter of cost. I'm going to inquire about it.

 

[JonW]

Do a quick google search on 1/2" NPT versus BSP. While the pitch is different, they are both 14 TPI and often used together in low pressure applications.

 

[yeqmaster]

Hmmm... if the pitch is the same... I guess it could work... I'm going to get a price on the correct (BSP to Sanitary fitting). If it is around the same, I will most likely do that. If it is much more, I will try the NPT right into the BSP.

 

[yeqmaster]

The gas diagram looks right, but I would strongly advise against using jet burners, use the 10" banjo burners and save the grief of trying to make the jet burners work. Buy 10" (BG-14)for HLT and BK, and a 6" (BG-12) for the mash tun, and source the low pressure jets from One Hoppy Guy. This has proven to be the best setup for low pressure propane around, jet burners have not worked all that well because of the design and construction flaws, and most have gone on to the banjo burners.

Wait, so source the low pressure jets meaning the entire burner from One Hoppy Guy? Does he sell these or something? Also, are there both low pressure and high pressure BG-14/BG-12? I want to make sure I don't order the wrong thing.

 

[kladue]

Sorry but the BSP and NPT threads do not play well together, here is a link http://pipeandhose.com/node/2.

 

[kladue]

For the burners look here http://www.agrisupply.com/cooking-supplies-utensils-kitchen-accessories/c/5400000/, for the conversion to low pressure gas jets check with these folks http://brewsteel.com/, and finally the gas valves can be sourced from PEX supply, a VR 8200 valve http://www.pexsupply.com/Honeywell-VR8200A2132-1-2-24-Vac-Standing-Pilot-Gas-Valve-11588000-p, Q314 pilot http://www.pexsupply.com/Honeywell-Q314A4586-Honeywell-Q314A4586-Pilot-Burner-4113000-p, and thermocouple http://www.pexsupply.com/Honeywell-Q390A1046-24-Thermocouple-1721000-p. To power the valves you will need a 120/24VAC transformer like this http://www.pexsupply.com/Honeywell-AT175A1008-Foot-mounted-120-208-240-Vac-Transformer-w-9-in-Lead-Wires-75VA-11016000-p. To connect the pilot burner to the valve, 1/4" soft copper from the big box building supply house or from hardware stores will work.

 

[yeqmaster]

WOW. Thanks a lot for all of the links. Very helpful.

 

[OneHoppyGuy]

Wait, so source the low pressure jets meaning the entire burner from One Hoppy Guy? Does he sell these or something? Also, are there both low pressure and high pressure BG-14/BG-12? I want to make sure I don't order the wrong thing.

You will need to drill them out to .073” / #49 for low pressure. We don't sell burners.

+1 on PexSupply, we buy all our gas components from them

 

[kladue]

The burner castings work with either high or low pressure, the difference is in the brass gas jet fitting. Brewers supply is a source for the BG-14 low pressure jets http://www.brewershardware.com/Valve-and-LPG-Orifice-for-BURN10.html, the BG-12 is a DIY with #45 drill bit, or sourced from Bayou Classic http://bayouclassicdepot.com/615-control-valve-brass-fitting.htm. To feed the gas valves a marshal 290 series 2 stage regulator and Green tank adapter http://www.americanrvcompany.com/Camco-59923-Propane-Acme-Nut-Green-Grill-Camper-Trailer-RV_p_5893.html will work nicely