Help with Schematics for Herms electric BCS 460 2 element brewing system

Yakima 728
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You want to get 1K-ohm 1W resistors I got mine from a local electronics shop, but these are at radio shack. They are really inexpensive like 1.50 for a four pack. I just soldered them in line to a 14g wire then used some wire heat shrink over them.
 
BrewskiBroski said:
Any advice on where and what brand of wire to purchase?
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I found a pretty decent selection of hookup wire at Home Depot. I initially bought most of my wire at Frys and I think I paid more for that wire than the latest spools that I found at the depot.
 
bruin_ale said:
I found a pretty decent selection of hookup wire at Home Depot. I initially bought most of my wire at Frys and I think I paid more for that wire than the latest spools that I found at the depot.
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great thanks...do you know if there is a limit to how long the 30A drying cable can be... the reason i ask, my outlet is located about 15 to 20 feet from the room I will actually be brewing in.
 
I found something the other day that said at 50ft, the UL guidance is that you use the next gauge higher or carry 5A less (25A). So 15-20ft should be fine. I'm currently using 30ft of 10AWG for my system with no issue.
 
I'm thinking of following a very similar plan, but I was wondering about the manual mode in this system.

Am I correct in thinking that if the switches are set to manual, there's no way to regulate how often the elements fire (short of constantly flipping the switch), like you would have if you were using a PWM or PID?

Perhaps that is the intent of the design, but it seems less than ideal for the days you don't want to use the BCS. Is it just a waste of money and effort to build a system with PID's and a BCS?
 
Yes, that's correct - elements are either on or off in manual mode, not PWM in this setup.

why would there be days you don't want to use the BCS? Building a system with both PIDs and a BCS would be a lot of extra time/money that's not really needed.
 
I guess I was just trying to figure out why one would have a manual mode for the elements if you were going to use the BCS all the time. However, I suppose you could always have the elements in manual to start and then flip to auto once you get close to the right temps. Is this what you do?
 
Alylemac said:
I guess I was just trying to figure out why one would have a manual mode for the elements if you were going to use the BCS all the time. However, I suppose you could always have the elements in manual to start and then flip to auto once you get close to the right temps. Is this what you do?
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Manual mode is just to put your mind at ease. So if your computer crashes or something along those lines, you can switch to manual mode to maintain temps until you can get the BCS back up and running again. Although I haven't heard any reviews of the BCS crashing, at least you can be prepared if it does.
 
That makes sense. I guess I was assuming that most people who included a manual option with the BCS were doing it to allow full manual control (including element regulation) in case they felt like it.
 
The BCS requires the computer to be up and running to get the brewing process going. Sometimes when I setup, I get the water in the HLT - get my control panel hooked up and the BCS hooked up to that (to provide the 5V control signal) and then just turn on the HLT element. That way, I'm heating water while I continue setting the computer up - bringing up my brewing recipe software, etc. Gets me a head start on heating the water up. To be honest, I don't use the manual on the elements much more than that. The pumps and stir motor I use the manual switch all the time as I find it easier/more satisfying to just turn my pump on with an actual switch than with a mouse click.
 
with some fermcap I could brew in full manual...I'd have a really high boil off rate with the elements at 100%, but I could account for that.
 
Hey - Any recommendations on where to get the Contactor from? Also, what is the difference between a contactor and a DPDT relay?... are they the same thing?
 
P-J said:
The breakers are not needed as the power requirement would be much lower (30 Amps)

I'm curious - You quote an entry Originally Posted by Bsquared - however the diagram is one that is completely different than the one he posted. How did you do that??? Your quoted diagrams show the use of 240V pumps. Is that what you will be doing?

Here is another diagram that might fit your needs a little better:
Please note that I have changed the switches to illuminated units. Switch 7 is used to limit power delivery to one or the other element.

- as always - Click on the image to see a full scale diagram printable on Tabloid paper (11" x 17")

Click to expand...


Follow-up on the above question in this schematic. What is the difference between a contactor and a DPDT relay? Benefits to using one vs the other?

Also, where is a good place to purchase from?

Please let me know.
 
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A wire gauge question again -

should all grounds and neutrals be 10 gauge? (greens and yellows)

then the hots going to the fuses are 10 gauge until after the fuses... then 18 gauge to the SSR and pump outlets?

Heating element hots are all 10 gauge

the wire from the BCS can all be 24 gauge?

Just want to double check before i put the order in.
 
BrewskiBroski said:
A wire gauge question again -

should all grounds and neutrals be 10 gauge? (greens and yellows)

then the hots going to the fuses are 10 gauge until after the fuses... then 18 gauge to the SSR and pump outlets?

Heating element hots are all 10 gauge

the wire from the BCS can all be 24 gauge?

Just want to double check before i put the order in.
Click to expand...

Hey guys... back again with more questions... in addition to the question above....

I ended up purchasing a 12X12X8 metal box for my panel -

where do you recommend putting the heat sinks?

The box has a back plate to attach components to, can i just attach the heat sinks there? so they would be inside the box? (would that get too hot) or should they be outside the box?
 
I thought someone else would take the wire gauge question.. but I'll take a stab at it.

Grounds should be 10.
Neutral should be the same gauge as whatever hot you are going to reference it to.
If you only use the neutral after it crosses the fuse and becomes 18, then it can be 18 as well. Neutral is only ever going to be used to reference 110V, so whatever current you have on that line is the current it needs to be able to carry.
Heating elements and everything up to them - 10.
BCS wire 24 gauge, yes. I recommend a 250mA fuse on the +5 VDD from the BCS. If you get too much current draw on that pin or you short it to something, you'll blow the BCS voltage regulator (ask me how I know).

Heat sinks should ideally be vented to the outside of the box where they can get some fresh air. If you really want to keep them inside, you should mount a fan and blow air across the heat sinks and push hot air out of the box. Since you'd need to cut a hole for a fan, it's probably just easier to cut holes for the heat sinks and be done with it.
 
bruin_ale said:
I thought someone else would take the wire gauge question.. but I'll take a stab at it.

Grounds should be 10.
Neutral should be the same gauge as whatever hot you are going to reference it to.
If you only use the neutral after it crosses the fuse and becomes 18, then it can be 18 as well. Neutral is only ever going to be used to reference 110V, so whatever current you have on that line is the current it needs to be able to carry.
Heating elements and everything up to them - 10.
BCS wire 24 gauge, yes. I recommend a 250mA fuse on the +5 VDD from the BCS. If you get too much current draw on that pin or you short it to something, you'll blow the BCS voltage regulator (ask me how I know).

Heat sinks should ideally be vented to the outside of the box where they can get some fresh air. If you really want to keep them inside, you should mount a fan and blow air across the heat sinks and push hot air out of the box. Since you'd need to cut a hole for a fan, it's probably just easier to cut holes for the heat sinks and be done with it.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-300x300...lectrical_Equipment_Tools&hash=item1e5cb50931

This is the panel box that I got - if I replace the removeable panel (on top) with an aluminum sheet and put the SSR on the inside and the Heatsink on the outside (with the aluminum sheet between the two).

Will that be effective in transferring the heat to the Heatsinks and prevent overheating if liberal amounts of heatsink goo is used?
 
I have the same box (I think alot of us have that one actually). Here's what I did, I threw out the top plate, cut the hole in the top so that it was a rectangle and then added a large heat sink that I bought on e-bay. It was already tapped for 4 SSR and I was able to mount it to the enclosure around the edges.
I then used arctic silver thermal compound (I had some laying around from a computer build I did) to attach the SSR to the heat sinks.
Putting an aluminum sheet between the heat sink and the SSR is less than ideal, but if you use plenty of thermal adhesive/compound I think it'll be ok - but best to mount the heatsink directly to the enclosure and the SSR directly to that.
 
There's really no reason you couldn't do what I did and just mount the heat sinks to the box with no aluminum sheet between them. The standard SSR heatsinks have mounting notches on the top and bottom, you cut the hole such that the notch would mount on the inside of the box with the heatsink sticking out. Then mount the SSR to that.
 
bruin_ale said:
There's really no reason you couldn't do what I did and just mount the heat sinks to the box with no aluminum sheet between them. The standard SSR heatsinks have mounting notches on the top and bottom, you cut the hole such that the notch would mount on the inside of the box with the heatsink sticking out. Then mount the SSR to that.
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Good advice... i haven't yet received my SSR's or Heatsinks yet... so hopefully they will mount the same way you describe... definitely excited to get this build on the way


Also... you got me kind of curious... how did you end up getting too much draw from the BCS and blow the voltage regulator?
 
J-P I read somewhere, where the 3-way pump switches were moved to low voltage side of the SSRs this way the manual control is on the DC source either from the BCS or another source.

Do you have a diagram that could reference this change?

My plan is to use an old PC case with the PS converted to a 12 volt source for is purpose as well as power cooling fans and other devices I might think of.

Thank you.
 
BrewskiBroski said:
Also... you got me kind of curious... how did you end up getting too much draw from the BCS and blow the voltage regulator?
Click to expand...

Wasn't a "too much draw" condition per se. I was doing some wiring with the BCS plugged in, connecting the BCS "ground" to the system "earth ground" - anyways, I'd wired in one end of the ground and the other end shorted hit the output of a relay and basically shorted to 5V - blew the relay and my BCS. Should have unplugged it, but it was just a quick wiring change - fuse would have protected it though.

BTW, I recommend the above - connect earth ground to the BCS ground. Before I did this I was seeing some very strange behavior on the temp probes. They'd read accurately for most of the time, but there were spikes and dips at random times - all the probes would move in unison on these spikes (some more than others - but always at the same time). Connecting BCS ground to earth ground solved that and gives me rock solid stability on my temp readings - obviously very important for a system designed for temperature control. I have BCS ground go to a terminal block, system ground connects to that block, and one side of all the temp probes goes back to that as well.
 
bruin_ale said:
BTW, I recommend the above - connect earth ground to the BCS ground. Before I did this I was seeing some very strange behavior on the temp probes. They'd read accurately for most of the time, but there were spikes and dips at random times - all the probes would move in unison on these spikes (some more than others - but always at the same time). Connecting BCS ground to earth ground solved that and gives me rock solid stability on my temp readings - obviously very important for a system designed for temperature control. I have BCS ground go to a terminal block, system ground connects to that block, and one side of all the temp probes goes back to that as well.
Click to expand...

Good advice... i was thinking that might not be a bad idea... but now i definitely will... Thanks
 
My question is on p-j diagram he has 40 amp ssr which are rated to 3500 watts running 5500 watt elements? Am I missing something?
 
HenryVance3 said:
My question is on p-j diagram he has 40 amp ssr which are rated to 3500 watts running 5500 watt elements? Am I missing something?
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I do not follow your question.

A 40A SSR can carry a max of 40A. At 240V that would be 9600W & at 120V that would be 4800W.

A 25A SSR can carry a max of 25A. At 240V that would be 6000W & at 120V that would be 3000W.
 
Looking at the two element diagram.... How hard would it be to add a four prong instead of a three for the elements? Would it simplify things not having a 3 way manual switching option?
 
HenryVance3 said:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004HZLMTW/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
According to this ssr it's max is 3500 watts. Are you using something different?
Click to expand...
The SSR can carry 40A. It's that simple. The vendors comment "or other appliance up to 3500Watt power consumption" is referring to appliances that probably have motors in them. Motors have a fairly high amp draw at startup.

Again - The SSR can carry a max of 40A.
HenryVance3 said:
Looking at the two element diagram.... How hard would it be to add a four prong instead of a three for the elements? Would it simplify things not having a 3 way manual switching option?
Click to expand...
There is absolutely no need for a 4 wire outlet and plug for the elements. There are only 2 current carrying connections (on the element its self) and equipment ground. A 3 wire outlet and plug is all that is needed.
 
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So the build is going well... Parts have come in and I have started drilling holes in the panel and mounting all the equipment...

A new question arose... If the bcs is mounted internally... How do you go about powering it without running the power cord out of the unit?
 
I've seen where people mount a plug inside for the 5V walwort. That's probably the easiest, I was looking for an AC to DC converter board that would accept 110V - didn't find one in the few minutes I looked on e-bay, but something like that would work as well if you can find it.
 

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