Water Chemistry for Stout

I am making a stout base beer for a peanut butter stout I am making, and was curious if my water chemistry looked ok.

Beer:
12# 2 row
1# chocolate malt
12 oz Crystal 120
12 oz flaked oats
8 oz roasted barely

I will be using all RO or distilled water, and I used EZ water 3.0 for the first time.

I know I need to get minerals in the mash water for good conversion, flavor and yeast activity.

additions to 5.6 gal of mash water:
1.25 g Gypsum
3g Ca Chloride
2.5g Epsom Salt
2.5g baking soda
2g chalk

According to EZ Water:
Ca: 89ppm
Mg: 11ppm
Na: 32ppm
Cl: 68ppm
Sulfate: 79ppm
Cl/Sulfate ratio: .87

Do those additions seem reasonable? This is my first time with water additions. I also have starsan 5.2 if i need to adjust the mash pH.

Thanks.

Your over ppm look good, but what does it calculate your overall mash pH at? If it happens to drop too low, you can save either the gypsum addition, CaCl addition, or both from the mash and add everything to the boil. This way you still get the desired profile, and you also keep mash pH in a reasonable range.

Edit: I typically use just gypsum and CaCl for mineral additions. Should be enough Mg in the grains to where you shouldn't have to supplement it. And by possibly dropping gypsum and CaCl in the mash, you can avoid chalk additions

Why are you using all RO? Is this an experiment? I think using some tap water would make the mineral additions easier.

Dump the chalk. It doesn't dissolve readily short of heroic measures.

rickyn06 said:

I am making a stout base beer for a peanut butter stout I am making, and was curious if my water chemistry looked ok.

I will be using all RO or distilled water, and I used EZ water 3.0 for the first time.

I know I need to get minerals in the mash water for good conversion, flavor and yeast activity.

Click to expand...

Not really. The grains contain plenty of minerals. Nonetheless you will probably want some chloride for richness and body and some sulfate to lend punch to the hops though not everyone want the latter and tastes with respect to the level of the former vary.

rickyn06 said:

additions to 5.6 gal of mash water:
1.25 g Gypsum
3g Ca Chloride
2.5g Epsom Salt
2.5g baking soda
2g chalk

Do those additions seem reasonable?

Click to expand...

No. You should never add alkali to mash water or mash unless it is required (as verified by pH meter reading on a test mash) or where you are using so much roast stuff that base malt alkalinity is swamped). Where alkali is required do not use chalk. For a stout akali is not required in the vast majority of cases. Add the gypsum and calcium chloride and skip the other stuff.

rickyn06 said:

This is my first time with water additions.

Click to expand...

Then make it easy for yourself. Just add the calcium chloride the first time. Taste the beer. Add a bit of gypsum and taste again. Does it make it taste better? If so add some gypsum to water next time you brew this beer.

rickyn06 said:

I also have starsan 5.2 if i need to adjust the mash pH.

Click to expand...

Well it won't do that. There was recently a thread where people asked what you can do with it. I think the best answer was to use it as fertilizer for plants that need phosphate and like a somewhat acidic soil.

Thank you everyone for the help. I will try by either just adding CaCl and gypsum, or just CaCl. Seems a couple mention chalk isnt great. I read that with a stout you want there to be a good amount of residual alkalinity, which is why I was going to add those minerals in. But not really needed even though I am using RO?

I am using RO mostly because our water in Phoenix has a bit of a chlorine smell to it at times, and figured it would be easier to start with a blank slate. I actually have a water profile from Phoenix. I will find it and post what it is soon.

rickyn06 said:

I read that with a stout you want there to be a good amount of residual alkalinity, which is why I was going to add those minerals in. But not really needed even though I am using RO?

Click to expand...

That is a common misconception that is beginning to wane as more and more people take actual pH readings of their mashes. There are cases where you do need it. Obviously the more dark malt you have the more acid you have and the more likely you are to need alkali. Put another way the heavier the stout the more you may need some. Dark beers are a bit tricky in this regard. Actual pH readings are quite important with them for this reason.

ajdelange said:

That is a common misconception that is beginning to wane as more and more people take actual pH readings of their mashes. There are cases where you do need it. Obviously the more dark malt you have the more acid you have and the more likely you are to need alkali. Put another way the heavier the stout the more you may need some. Dark beers are a bit tricky in this regard. Actual pH readings are quite important with them for this reason.

Click to expand...

Good to know. I will skip the alkali additions for this batch then and see how it goes.

Accurately measuring your pH with a quality meter capable of two-point calibration is the key. The first time I made a stout the pH dropped to 4.8 (using distilled water for the mash.) All of the spreadsheets I uploaded my information to had my pH calculated much higher. I now have the proper amount of baking soda dialed in, and have hit the proper mash pH three subsequent times in a row (measuring a sample drawn ten minutes into the mash and cooled to room temperature.)

KeninMN said:

Accurately measuring your pH with a quality meter capable of two-point calibration is the key.

Click to expand...

Amen to that.

KeninMN said:

The first time I made a stout the pH dropped to 4.8 (using distilled water for the mash.) All of the spreadsheets I uploaded my information to had my pH calculated much higher. I now have the proper amount of baking soda dialed in, and have hit the proper mash pH three subsequent times in a row (measuring a sample drawn ten minutes into the mash and cooled to room temperature.)

Click to expand...

As pH that low without inordinate amounts of high color malt strikes me as being unusual (for example OP with his 20% high colored malts should, if he eliminates the carbonate and bicarbonate, hit a mash pH of around 5.5) please tell us more about the grain bill, the amount of bicarbonate you used to target pH and what the target pH was.

It was a 3-gallon batch of Chocolate Milk Stout this is the grain bill:

Ingredient Qty (lb) °L
Rahr Pale Ale Malt 4.80 3
Fawcett Pale Chocolate Malt 0.45 180
Weyermann Carafa III 0.45 500
English Extra Dark Crystal 0.15 180

This was mashed in 3.4 gallons of distilled water (I opted for a thinner mash of 2.3 qt/lb in order to minimize the head space in my round 5-gal cooler mash tun.) After performing a two-point calibration with pH buffers 7.0 and 4.0, respectively, I drew a sample of the mash at the 10-minute mark, cooled it to room temperature and measured a pH of 4.8. I calculated an addition of 3.4 g of sodium bicarbonate, added it to the mash and after another ten minutes I drew, cooled and measured a sample. The pH was 5.38. I was targeting 5.4. After sparging the pre-boil pH was 5.2. The post boil pH was 4.85.

Note: This was the best-tasting beer I had made up to this point.

I also brewed a 5-gallon batch last month, adding 5 g of sodium bicarbonate to 3.5 gallons of RO water (Mash thickness = 1.33 qt/lb) and hit a pH of 5.35 versus a target ph of 5.4.

Thanks for the detailed info. Using that with conventional malts the lowest mash pH I can get is around 5.5 but then you used Rahr. I have seen reports (I have never measured it) that Rahr malt has very low DI mash pH and I am guessing that this is what is responsible here. Modeling the base malt as having a DI mash pH of 5 and buffering capacity of -41 mEq/kg•pH my estimated pH goes to 4.9 which given all the other approximations is, to my mind, close enough to what you measured. Also adding 3.4 grams of NaHCO3 raises the estimate to 5.27. Not what you got quite but enough evidence to firmly point the finger at the Rahr.

I need to change my statement to 'unless one uses inordinate amounts of high colored malts or a base malt with unusually low DI mash pH'. I had quite forgotten to mention this important aspect of mash pH determination.

I guess I am not surprised that none of the spreadsheets/calculators you tried picked this up as most of them seem to base their acidity models on malt color or generic type.

I don't suppose you have the DI mash pH for this malt?

ajdelange said:

That is a common misconception that is beginning to wane as more and more people take actual pH readings of their mashes. There are cases where you do need it. Obviously the more dark malt you have the more acid you have and the more likely you are to need alkali. Put another way the heavier the stout the more you may need some. Dark beers are a bit tricky in this regard. Actual pH readings are quite important with them for this reason.

Click to expand...

I agree with the premise, but I can counter with actual results. If a brewer knows their water quality and grist, they can predict mash pH quite closely. And mash and wort pH does REALLY matter when brewing most dark beers like stout and porter. Reduced pH does create a sharper roast character that is not typically desirable in most of those styles. Targeting a mash and wort pH in the 5.5 to 5.6 range tends to produce smoother and more pleasant roast character.

A case in point was experienced by one of my clients. Their robust porter was flagging and they called me in for consultation. It was sharp and harsh. Their water supply has very little alkalinity and not surprisingly, their mash and wort pH readings were in the 5.2 range. They had tried chalk, but found out that it didn't work (surprise!). We put their water and grist parameters into Bru'n Water and were able to almost identically duplicate their observed pH's without the chalk. I converted their operations to pickling lime addition and their porter is now ranked in the top 25 porters in the US.

For a large commercial operation, dialing in a pH value is a reasonable thing to do. A pH meter and knowledge will get you there. However, for the homebrewer or craftbrewer that needs that next batch to be pretty near spot on, that trial and error approach is not acceptable. Don't be an ostrich and stick your head in the sand. Use the tools available to you and get that next batch close. Then use that result to fine tune alkalinity adjustment to create something you can call perfect.

Do not ignore your water, it has more effect on your product than you think.

mabrungard said:

I agree with the premise, but I can counter with actual results.

Click to expand...

You aren't actually contradicting anything in the quote. You are supporting the statement that there are cases where alkalinity is needed. To counter the basic thesis you would need to demonstrate that it is needed in most cases. That may indeed be the case but not in my experience (which is a miniscule corner of the brewing universe) nor of the many others who have posted similar observations nor in terms of what games with robust pH predictors seem to indicate.

mabrungard said:

If a brewer knows their water quality and grist, they can predict mash pH quite closely.

Click to expand...

KeninMN couldn't:

KeninMN said:

The first time I made a stout the pH dropped to 4.8 (using distilled water for the mash.) All of the spreadsheets I uploaded my information to had my pH calculated much higher.

Click to expand...

We don't know exactly why this is but in broad terms the answer is that none of the spreadsheets he used modeled the malts accurately. Based on his reported grain bill and rumors of very low DI mash pH for the Rahr base malt I can put a low DI pH base malt into a robust mash pH predictor and explain his result which supports the thesis that none of the spreadsheets he used modeled this malt properly or that he entered data on it improperly.

mabrungard said:

And mash and wort pH does REALLY matter when brewing most dark beers like stout and porter.

Click to expand...

No disagreement there.

mabrungard said:

Targeting a mash and wort pH in the 5.5 to 5.6 range tends to produce smoother and more pleasant roast character.

Click to expand...

And that's what my experience and the experience of others who have posted here seems to be where stout grists tend to fall with water with modest or even very low alkalinity tend to fall. Unless there is something unusual as in KeninMN's case (the Rahr base malt).

mabrungard said:

A case in point was experienced by one of my clients. Their robust porter was flagging and they called me in for consultation... We put their water and grist parameters into Bru'n Water and were able to almost identically duplicate their observed pH's..Their water supply has very little alkalinity and not surprisingly, their mash and wort pH readings were in the 5.2 range.

Click to expand...

Well here's a case where the program did model the malts accurately enough. KenimMN wasn't so lucky. If I put his grist into a model assuming a more normal base malt like M.O. then I predict 5.5 for the mash pH and I expect that the available spreadsheets assume more normal base malts and consequently gave him similar estimates. It is up to him to decide whether 5.5 at room temperature is too low (for any beer) and adjust accordingly but he measured 4.8 i.e. the estimators were off by 0.6 pH (he says he was shooting for 5.4).

mabrungard said:

For a large commercial operation, dialing in a pH value is a reasonable thing to do. A pH meter and knowledge will get you there.

Click to expand...

Same for a home brewer.

mabrungard said:

However, for the homebrewer or craftbrewer that needs that next batch to be pretty near spot on, that trial and error approach is not acceptable.

Click to expand...

That is the way that brewers have made beer for centuries and many still do. When I asked at an MBAA region meeting how many check mash pH only perhaps a third raised their hands (and that was more than I expected would). Mind you I don't advocate groping in the dark as the sole means of reaching the goal. If I did I wouldn't have put in all the effort I have in trying to understand what sets mash pH. Prediction algorithms can direct a brewer to the part of the dark room in which he should be searching. The pH meter will tell him whether the directions he got were good ones. If they were then he must continue to grope. Yes, I like the stouts that the estimator tells me will come out at 5.55 and the pH meters says do come out at 5.55 but I don't know whether I might not like one at 5.4 or 5.6 better because I haven't tried those pH's. A commercial operation that brews the same gyle over and over has the opportunity to try batches with a little bit of added acid or a little bit of bicarbonate to see whether these improve the beer or not.

mabrungard said:

Don't be an ostrich and stick your head in the sand. Use the tools available to you and get that next batch close.

Click to expand...

But don't trust a calculator for more than guidance. Much of the time they will give you a fairly good answer but sometimes they can be way off (0.4 pH is about as dramatic as I have seen so far). Doveryai, no proveryai! (Trust but verify - Regan's words to Gorbachov at the signing of an arms control treaty). That's what the pH meter is for.

So can the spreadsheets be fixed such that KenimMN didn't get such a disastrous result? Certainly they can. The actual mash prediction algorithm is quite simple. The problem is getting the data to put into the algorithm. We're starting to collect some of that but it is going pretty slowly as the labor for one malt is extensive. We need to get the maltsters to agree to do it as part of their routine lab analysis of their products. Otherwise its me and guys like Kai and we only have data on a handful of malts and complete data on fewer still. Then we have to get the spreadsheet authors to use this data (obviously Kai's calculator and my spreadsheet do but the others don't, AFAIK). My paper on all this is (finally!) going to appear in the next MBAA TQ and contains an appeal to the maltsters to take this up but I'm not holding my breath.

I've brewed half a dozen dark beers lately. I use the Brewer's Friend calculator. I won't bore you with the exact numbers, but here is my empirical observation from brewing and then tasting the beers.

Two porters, estimated mash pH in the 5.25 range. These have a somewhat sharp bitterness, or an "edge" to the mouthfeel.

Two stouts, estimated mash pH in the 5.4 range. These are rounded, softer, with malt character more prominent.

More interestingly (to me), I added a tiny pinch of baking soda to a glass of one of the porters. It rounded the mouthfeel noticeably. No pH measurements were taken, but now I'll shoot for 5.4 in my dark beers using the same calculator - if nothing else, if it is inaccurate it is at least consistently inaccurate such that I seem able to count on its predictions.

Bit of an embarrassment here. I kept thinking that my estimate of KeninMN's mash pH for normal base malt was low (at 5.2) and so went back to the spreadsheet and found I'd done the calculations at a reference temperature of 50 °C. Switching to room temperature changes the estimated pH to closer to 5.5 which is much more reasonable for a grist like his - provided the base malt is more like Crisp RO than Rahr. The other numbers don't change as only 1 decimal place is given. #12 and #14 have been edited to the room temperature number.

McKnuckle said:

More interestingly (to me), I added a tiny pinch of baking soda to a glass of one of the porters. It rounded the mouthfeel noticeably.

Click to expand...

That is very interesting to me too. Possibilities: neutralized some carbonic acid? Sodium?

Have you tried this experiment it with sodium chloride?

McKnuckle said:

No pH measurements were taken, but now I'll shoot for 5.4 in my dark beers using the same calculator - if nothing else, if it is inaccurate it is at least consistently inaccurate such that I seem able to count on its predictions.

Click to expand...

If you are looking at a beer you have brewed before, for example the porter you mention, then even if the pH prediction is not spot on you can still use the calculator, for example, to determine how much bicarbonate to add to raise the pH by 0.1 and assuming that the calculator models grist buffering fairly well you should get a useful answer. IOW, as long as everything besides the bicarbonate quantity is the same you know that the errors will be consistent. The problem would arise if, for example, you decided to shift to Rahr malt from MO. Now you have no consistency because the program can't distinguish the properties of Rahr relative to MO (some programs may be able to do that) or other base malts.

Thus the question becomes: How do you know when it is consistently inaccurate?

My last batch was a stout (Yooper's oatmeal Stout) and the first where I had used Bru'n Water. Using the raw numbers it seemed that CaCO3 would be preferable to raise my Ca without raising my Cl.

Not so, and a dumb move as I have since found out. Chalk does not disolve in the strike water. It just made it cloudy. To counter the projected increased alkalinity I added Lactic acid to bring the pH down to a target of 5.4

In reality the result would be a pH too low in the mash and then too high in the FV as the CaCo3 finally reacts over a period of days. My good intentions resulting in me screwing the pooch.

(thanks to ALDelange for the education in this matter)

Would it be better if CaCo3 was removed from Bru'n water or had a big asterisk added explaining the slow nature of this reagent? I may not be alone in making this error which fortunately I discovered after just 1 batch.

The stout taste has characteristics exactly as described by @mabrungard earlier in the thread. It's OK but there is a definite harsh bitterness there. Hopefully with fade with time?

Next up is Biermuncher's centenial blonde. I have my New Hach Pro+ pH meter (with calibration solutions at the ready), Bru'n water and minerals on hand. Coupled with my Ward labs report I am hoping for a more targeted approach.

Are pH adjustments during the mash realistic? With my fine grind with BIAB conversion is fast.

My plan is to dough in with my mineral additions (CaCl2 as indicated by water report). Check the pH. Add appropriate amount of lactic acid determined by the measured pH value. Check the pH to abet future batch calculations. Is this a reasonable approach.

ajdelange said:

Well here's a case where the program did model the malts accurately enough. KenimMN wasn't so lucky. If I put his grist into a model assuming a more normal base malt like M.O. then I predict 5.5 for the mash pH and I expect that the available spreadsheets assume more normal base malts and consequently gave him similar estimates. It is up to him to decide whether 5.5 at room temperature is too low (for any beer) and adjust accordingly but he measured 4.8 i.e. the estimators were off by 0.6 pH (he says he was shooting for 5.4).

Click to expand...

On a subsequent brew (a 5-gallon batch of Dry Irish Stout) I did use Marris Otter as the base malt. The Brewer's Friend water calculator predicted a Mash pH of 5.4. I was targeting a mash pH of 5.5, so adding 1.4 g of sodium bicarbonate to the mash water (3.5 gallons, with a mash thickness of 1.5 qt/lb) calculated out to a predicted pH value of 5.45. My measured value after ten minutes of mash time, with the sample cooled to room temperature, was 5.50.

I'll advocate for baking soda just from stupid homebrewer experience

KeninMN said:

On a subsequent brew (a 5-gallon batch of Dry Irish Stout) I did use Marris Otter as the base malt. The Brewer's Friend water calculator predicted a Mash pH of 5.4. I was targeting a mash pH of 5.5, so adding 1.4 g of sodium bicarbonate to the mash water (3.5 gallons, with a mash thickness of 1.5 qt/lb) calculated out to a predicted pH value of 5.45. My measured value after ten minutes of mash time, with the sample cooled to room temperature, was 5.50.

Click to expand...

Conclusion: the program models MO better than it models Rahr.

Just for perspective: if I take your same proportions of specialty malts (and I don't have data on most of them so I have to pick ones that I do have data on which I think are close) and noting that since your specialty grains are only 18% of the total so that the pH is determined mostly by the base malt, and estimate mash pH for Crisp M.O. I get an estimated room temperature mash pH of 5.48. That is exactly what I would expect and close to what I measure when I do similar beers. Adding 1.4 grams of sodium bicarbonate to such a mash should push the pH up to 5.59. These numbers are not the same as yours and illustrative of the sorts of discrepancies typically associated with mash pH predictions when things are working.

It gets even more interesting if I use Munton's MO in the model. Then the predicted room temperature mash pH, without the bicarb, goes to 5.60 and with to 5.70 whereas predictions at mash temperature are about the same.

This new data still points the finger at the Rahr and trying to find out more about it I came across a report that Kai had measured its DI pH at 5.56. This would in no way explain what you saw. Martin, in a couple places, indicates that he has seen the reports of low mash pH from Rahr and recommends that users of Bru'n water compensate for this by entering it as being 3 L darker in color than it actually is. Based on what you saw and the loose correlation between malt color and acidity it would have to be about 40L to act the way it did for you. So still a big mystery about it here.

ajdelange said:

Conclusion: the program models MO better than it models Rahr.

Just for perspective: if I take your same proportions of specialty malts (and I don't have data on most of them so I have to pick ones that I do have data on which I think are close) and noting that since your specialty grains are only 18% of the total so that the pH is determined mostly by the base malt, and estimate mash pH for Crisp M.O. I get an estimated room temperature mash pH of 5.48. That is exactly what I would expect and close to what I measure when I do similar beers. Adding 1.4 grams of sodium bicarbonate to such a mash should push the pH up to 5.59. These numbers are not the same as yours and illustrative of the sorts of discrepancies typically associated with mash pH predictions when things are working.

It gets even more interesting if I use Munton's MO in the model. Then the predicted room temperature mash pH, without the bicarb, goes to 5.60 and with to 5.70 whereas predictions at mash temperature are about the same.

This new data still points the finger at the Rahr and trying to find out more about it I came across a report that Kai had measured its DI pH at 5.56. This would in no way explain what you saw. Martin, in a couple places, indicates that he has seen the reports of low mash pH from Rahr and recommends that users of Bru'n water compensate for this by entering it as being 3 L darker in color than it actually is. Based on what you saw and the loose correlation between malt color and acidity it would have to be about 40L to act the way it did for you. So still a big mystery about it here.

Click to expand...

All of this only validates to me that it pays to accurately measure pH with a quality meter. If you're not measuring you're only guessing...

Absolutely, though your guess can be more or less educated depending on how good the calculator you have a available is.

ajdelange said:

Absolutely, though your guess can be more or less educated depending on how good the calculator you have a available is.

Click to expand...

Hi,

Can I ask what tool You would be using?

BR Folke

funnelweb said:

Can I ask what tool You would be using?

Click to expand...

As I think I noted in an earlier post the algorithm for mash pH prediction is actually quite simple so that it is easy to put it in an Excel spreadsheet. The earliest version was actually done in a few minutes while waiting for my turn to present the algorithm to a meeting of brewers. Since then I've put on lots of bells and whistles. The slides from the presentation and an early version of the spreadsheet are posted at www.wetnewf.org. They are, respectively, the last two items on the pdf's page there.

My turn: Why are you posting from Denmark with a user name that describes a nasty eastern Australian spider? Just curious.

ajdelange said:

As I think I noted in an earlier post the algorithm for mash pH prediction is actually quite simple so that it is easy to put it in an Excel spreadsheet. The earliest version was actually done in a few minutes while waiting for my turn to present the algorithm to a meeting of brewers. Since then I've put on lots of bells and whistles. The slides from the presentation and an early version of the spreadsheet are posted at www.wetnewf.org. They are, respectively, the last two items on the pdf's page there.

My turn: Why are you posting from Denmark with a user name that describes a nasty eastern Australian spider? Just curious.

Click to expand...

Thanks a lot. Well, my avatar/nick has sort of a long explanation to it. i'll give you the short version: I travlled Oz back in '91-'92 where i lived and slept in a garage with a mate of mine for 3 weeks. The landlord - also a dane - had this black humour and really enjoyed telling these two youngsters how science had found that the whole metropol of Sydney was actually build on a large collony of underground Funnelwebs ;-) (in fact...there IS something to it, but maybe not in the scale in wich he took it) Well he scared the sh** out of us telling stories about how people was bitten in their pools when night swimming due to a Funnelweb had fallen down the pool. Back home i started reading about this spider, and as not being a aracnofobist, in fact this spider lives a quite interesting life. And if you don't mess with a Funnelweb spider, it won't mess with you Another nick I use more seldom is Taipan - guess I have a fascination for venomous creatures

funnelweb said:

...that the whole metropol of Sydney was actually build on a large collony of underground Funnelwebs ;-) (in fact...there IS something to it, but maybe not in the scale in wich he took it)...

Click to expand...

Yes, I believe that is the case.

funnelweb said:

..stories about how people was bitten in their pools when night swimming due to a Funnelweb had fallen down the pool.

Click to expand...

That's also pretty common. The males go looking for ladies and often fall in and can't get out.

funnelweb said:

and as not being a aracnofobist, in fact this spider lives a quite interesting life.

Click to expand...

I've got one of those silly paperweights somewhere.

funnelweb said:

Another nick I use more seldom is Taipan - guess I have a fascination for venomous creatures

Click to expand...

Just found out a third species (O. temporalis) has been discovered since my days chasing the herpetofauna of Oz.

ajdelange said:

Yes, I believe that is the case.

That's also pretty common. The males go looking for ladies and often fall in and can't get out.

I've got one of those silly paperweights somewhere.



Just found out a third species (O. temporalis) has been discovered since my days chasing the herpetofauna of Oz.

Click to expand...

WOW!! You know other than your water chemistry?

Never heard of the Central Ranges Taipan. Must read and investigate. Never met the Inland Taipan while being Down Under. Think i just let Mr. Irwin (GRHS) do the job [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXh0rLQPK5g[/ame]

however - was once "rescued" from a King Brown at a caravan park in Cairns. Was walking around when all of a sudden a Cookaburrah dove down just 10 ft. from me for it's meal. Thanks birdie

Sorry to thread starter for this off topic - but learned something new about snakes....at the homebrewtalk forum!!:rockin:

Cheers

Folke

Never met a Taipan (inland or coastal) but certainly encountered plenty of Browns and picked up more than I should have (2 I think which is way more than I should have for sure). Your mention of the King Brown reminds me of the time we were out looking for herps and found one sunning in the middle of the road. We got out to investigate and as I was cautiously approaching the driver's 9 year old daughter shouted with delight 'Oh, a snake' and ran right past me straight for it (she was, obviously, not afraid of snakes even though, in this case she should have been). Fortunately I was able to snag a handful of the kid's shirt. Crikey! Not a good moment. Damn thing was the size of a python.

ajdelange said:

Never met a Taipan (inland or coastal) but certainly encountered plenty of Browns and picked up more than I should have (2 I think which is way more than I should have for sure). Your mention of the King Brown reminds me of the time we were out looking for herps and found one sunning in the middle of the road. We got out to investigate and as I was cautiously approaching the driver's 9 year old daughter shouted with delight 'Oh, a snake' and ran right past me straight for it (she was, obviously, not afraid of snakes even though, in this case she should have been). Fortunately I was able to snag a handful of the kid's shirt. Crikey! Not a good moment. Damn thing was the size of a python.

Click to expand...

Huh!?? Picked them up?? Yeah, Crikey! Well, one can say that if you had decided to pick up no. 3, perhaps there would be a lot of homebrewers out here and there knowing very little or nothing about water chemistry? Was the girl bitten by her leg?

There is a correlation to brewing. I remember reading somewhere that the majority of snakebite victims in Australia (which has amazingly low mortality considering the remoteness of much of the country and the toxicity of the snakes thanks largely to the efforts of Struan Southerland) had previously been in the pub. I can't say I was stone sober when I did it.

No, she wasn't hurt. I was able to keep her from getting close to it. Even though it has no natural enemies, it didn't want to tangle with us and slithered off into the bush.

ajdelange said:

There is a correlation to brewing. I remember reading somewhere that the majority of snakebite victims in Australia (which has amazingly low mortality considering the remoteness of much of the country and the toxicity of the snakes thanks largely to the efforts of Struan Southerland) had previously been in the pub. I can't say I was stone sober when I did it.

No, she wasn't hurt. I was able to keep her from getting close to it. Even though it has no natural enemies, it didn't want to tangle with us and slithered off into the bush.

Click to expand...

Tar, mate good stuff - great to hear that she was allright! Hmm...when talking about Oz...was it Tooheys Big Red, Victorian Bitter (VB) or just the famous XXXX which made the trick...introducing you to catching/messin around lethal snakes? Guess it couldn't be the Black Swann from the West since apparantly most east coasters do not know it?

BR Folke

Appendix: A bloke from Queensland at the caravanpark in Cairns discovered a Red Back behind his licence plate. Tiny spider with a GREAT bite! ;-) And have a nasty habbit for hiding under toilet seats!

PPS: And the 1 mill. $question: How did XXXX get's it's name?

funnelweb said:

Tooheys Big Red, Victorian Bitter (VB) or just the famous XXXX which made the trick...introducing you to catching/messin around lethal snakes? Guess it couldn't be the Black Swann from the West since apparantly most east coasters do not know it?

Click to expand...

Could have been greenies (VB), reddies (Carlton), whities (Carlton light - not likely), XXXX or Coopers Sparkling I guess. Too long ago to remember. Not even sure I've got the colors right.

funnelweb said:

Appendix: A bloke from Queensland at the caravanpark in Cairns discovered a Red Back behind his licence plate. Tiny spider with a GREAT bite! ;-) And have a nasty habbit for hiding under toilet seats!

Click to expand...

Found one of those (Latrodectus hasselti) nosing around in my room one night. They were quite common (I've got a perspex key ring with one of those embedded in it and I think a gear shift knob). There was a pretty decent beer out of Fremantle (I think) named Red Back. In the states we have very similar critter (L. mactans) which we call the Black Widow. They are so similar that I have seen the Australian flavor called L. mactans. The difference is that the red stripe (which is usually described as hour glass shape) is on the belly.

funnelweb said:

PPS: And the 1 mill. $question: How did XXXX get's it's name?

Click to expand...

Don't really know. Always assumed it had something to do with the OG but I have a vague recollection about something different with respect to Castel Maine.

ajdelange said:

Could have been greenies (VB), reddies (Carlton), whities (Carlton light - not likely), XXXX or Coopers Sparkling I guess. Too long ago to remember. Not even sure I've got the colors right.


Found one of those (Latrodectus hasselti) nosing around in my room one night. They were quite common (I've got a perspex key ring with one of those embedded in it and I think a gear shift knob). There was a pretty decent beer out of Fremantle (I think) named Red Back. In the states we have very similar critter (L. mactans) which we call the Black Widow. They are so similar that I have seen the Australian flavor called L. mactans. The difference is that the red stripe (which is usually described as hour glass shape) is on the belly.


Don't really know. Always assumed it had something to do with the OG but I have a vague recollection about something different with respect to Castel Maine.

Click to expand...

They can't spell BEER (blokes from NSW never miss a chance to emphazise how stupid the blokes from QLD. are)

...and thanks for the lesson. Could be great to have gear shift knob with a Red Back imbedded in it

By the way: Are you a biologist hence your knowledge in these sort of strange matters?

BR Folke

Ps.: Had totally forgot Carlton - had heaps of these at the surf club in Palm Cove :cross:

uncleleon said:

I'll advocate for baking soda just from stupid homebrewer experience

Click to expand...

I am wondering if I should have used baking soda. I only used calcium chloride and gypsum. I measured the pH with a pH test strip (not the most accurate, I know), and it was around 5.0 based on color. I ended up adding StarSan 5.2. Unfortunately, I got a bit distracted and didn't remeasure the pH. I only added gypsum to my sparge water.

Next time I will make sure to remeasure after making an addition, as well as maybe adding a gram of baking soda. I will just have to wait and see how this one tastes.

funnelweb said:

They can't spell BEER (blokes from NSW never miss a chance to emphazise how stupid the blokes from QLD. are)

Click to expand...

Banana Benders.

funnelweb said:

By the way: Are you a biologist hence your knowledge in these sort of strange matters?

Click to expand...

No. It was just another one of many hobbies.

funnelweb said:

Ps.: Had totally forgot Carlton - had heaps of these at the surf club in Palm Cove :cross:

Click to expand...

CUB has/had a large portfolio: Fosters, Carlton, Carlton Lite, Victoria Bitter, Crown Lager...?

rickyn06 said:

I am wondering if I should have used baking soda. I only used calcium chloride and gypsum. I measured the pH with a pH test strip (not the most accurate, I know), and it was around 5.0 based on color. I ended up adding StarSan 5.2. Unfortunately, I got a bit distracted and didn't remeasure the pH. I only added gypsum to my sparge water.

Click to expand...

You were probably OK. Without lots of dark malt or an unusually acidic base malt you should not have needed bicarbonate.

Measurements with test strips are worse than useless as they lead you towards making a correction when you don't need to. The 5.2 may have raised your mash pH a bit but is in general pretty worthless.

rickyn06 said:

Next time I will make sure to remeasure after making an addition, as well as maybe adding a gram of baking soda. I will just have to wait and see how this one tastes.

Click to expand...

Do check the pH of a test mash but don't do it with strips! Get a good pH meter.

ajdelange said:

Banana Benders.


No. It was just another one of many hobbies.



CUB has/had a large portfolio: Fosters, Carlton, Carlton Lite, Victoria Bitter, Crown Lager...?

Click to expand...

And all of a sudden Cains come to me - well not australian but we had this saying at the surf club: Cains for the Danes.... Well no need to say that we spent a good deal of time there

BR Folke

ajdelange said:

You were probably OK. Without lots of dark malt or an unusually acidic base malt you should not have needed bicarbonate.

Click to expand...

I was surprised to see it tested so low.

ajdelange said:

Measurements with test strips are worse than useless as they lead you towards making a correction when you don't need to.

Click to expand...

ha. good to know. I didn't think that were THAT bad.

ajdelange said:

Do check the pH of a test mash but don't do it with strips! Get a good pH meter.

Click to expand...

I would love to once i have the extra cash for the reader. Any good affordable ones you recommend? The ones I have looked at are around $60 or so.

rickyn06 said:

I would love to once i have the extra cash for the reader. Any good affordable ones you recommend? The ones I have looked at are around $60 or so.

Click to expand...

I recommend that you get one with a detachable probe. The probe WILL fail eventually, so the ability to replace the probe will save you money in the long run. And with pH meters, the rule is that you get what you pay for.

http://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-MW101-PH-Meter/dp/B0009YH06Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1427120283&sr=8-1&keywords=mw101