Using bag for grain in mash tun

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Dlou84

Dlou84

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I am assuming there is a good reason for not doing this, but I haven't read anything about it yet. I am doing my first AG tomorrow. I have read that a stuck sparge can be an annoyance. Is it okay to throw all the grain in a big muslin bag to avoid this or will that decrease the extraction from the grains? Thanks.


Here then beer!
 
If you try to use a mesh bag instead of a false bottom/braid in your cooler, plan on batch sparging that grain and lifting the bag and letting it drain between batches. I tried to pull runnings with the bag in the cooler and got massive channelling around the outside of the bag. I had to ditch the bag altogether and try something else.
 
I use a grain bag in my beverage cooler mashtun and I get between 75% and 80% consistently. In fact I usually calculate for 75% and end up over shooting my gravity which either gets me bigger beer (yay) or extra beer of the same Gravity (yay). It is near impossible to get a stuck sparge and when I get down to the last little bit of liquid I can raise the bag and extract that liquid 10x faster. I batch sparge and really like doing things this way.
 
Dlou, you should check out the BIAB forum too. Lots of tips there. Try some traditional mash tun mashes too so you can compare the two and see which you like better.
 
This is NOT biab... Anyway, my experience is the same as plustroy63's. I batch sparge with good efficiency no stuck sparges. I think clean up is easier also. I would highly recommend it.
 
Thanks for the responses. It is brew time.


Here then beer!
 
plustroy63 said:
I use a grain bag in my beverage cooler mashtun and I get between 75% and 80% consistently. In fact I usually calculate for 75% and end up over shooting my gravity which either gets me bigger beer (yay) or extra beer of the same Gravity (yay). It is near impossible to get a stuck sparge and when I get down to the last little bit of liquid I can raise the bag and extract that liquid 10x faster. I batch sparge and really like doing things this way.
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I do this as well. Efficiency was about the same 72ish with or without the bag, so I use the bag. Makes vorlouf much quicker, in fact I have not even bothered with it on occasion.
 
cgrivois said:
I do this as well. Efficiency was about the same 72ish with or without the bag, so I use the bag. Makes vorlouf much quicker, in fact I have not even bothered with it on occasion.
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+1 I never vorlouf anymore. When the mash is done just crack open the valve and drain into the kettle.
 
Really not trying to start an argument or a debate, but how is this NOT BIAB?
 
dobe12 said:
Really not trying to start an argument or a debate, but how is this NOT BIAB?
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Because it's not. At all. What the OP is talking about is no different from a normal single infusion / batch sparge process except you line the tun with a grain bag.
 
I've thought about doing this purely for cleaning purposes. Worst parts of my day are dumping the mash tun and walking the kettle to the hose for the immersion chiller (logistics).Disposable mash tun liners would be awesome. I've used paint strainers and they work well but they're hard to clean and eventually need to be chucked. For the cost of a strainer that size it becomes a hassle.
 
If I ever go back to batch sparging in a cooler (currently BIAB), I will definitely use a muslin bag for ease in cleaning. I feel like It'd be like using a garbage can without a trash bag.
 
seefish said:
If I ever go back to batch sparging in a cooler (currently BIAB), I will definitely use a muslin bag for ease in cleaning. I feel like It'd be like using a garbage can without a trash bag.
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Essentially that's what it is. It gets handled the same way. Put a trash bag over the mashtun and flip it. Then i knock it around a bit to free up anything that's stuck. Usually it's just down to granules that get hosed out when I run the immersion chiller.
 
LLBrewer said:
Because it's not. At all. What the OP is talking about is no different from a normal single infusion / batch sparge process except you line the tun with a grain bag.
Click to expand...

But I BIAB and do the exact same thing. I line my mash tun with a grain sack. Mash in. After 60min, pull the sack and dunk in a second pot (batch sparge), then combine runnings and boil.

So is the only difference that you use a valve to run the first runnings to a second pot, then add your sparge water to the mash tun?

So it kinda is the same thing, no?
 
dobe12 said:
But I BIAB and do the exact same thing. I line my mash tun with a grain sack. Mash in. After 60min, pull the sack and dunk in a second pot (batch sparge), then combine runnings and boil.

So is the only difference that you use a valve to run the first runnings to a second pot, then add your sparge water to the mash tun?

So it kinda is the same thing, no?
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I think the main point of contention will be that with the traditional all grain setup you're forcing the grain to act as a filter for the hot sparge water. When you dunk a bag in another pot your saturating more of the outside grain than what's in the center of the bag. Easy way around it is a ball valve on the kettle.

I don't see why you couldn't run a regular AG mash with all the grain in a bag. Just leave a good amount of space in the bag so the grain can shift and expand.

Basically, pull a bag from one pot to another = "BIAB". Draining the vessel the grain bag sits in from the bottom and batch sparging in the same kettle then draining from the bottom again = "All Grain" without the mess.

I blame BIAB for this confusion. It's so close to the regular process.
 
I understand what you're doing, I just understand the why? If you are using a cooler, than means you have another pot for boiling. Dumping the contents of a cooler mash tun takes about 8 seconds, so it seems the only thing you're doing is having to clean the bag instead of cleaning the cooler.

Or are you pulling the grain, setting it aside, dumping the wort from the cooler into the pot so that you don't have to drain from the valve? If so, that sounds an awful lot like BIAB but with 2 pots instead of one, which also defeats the purpose.
 
Summerland said:
I understand what you're doing, I just understand the why? If you are using a cooler, than means you have another pot for boiling. Dumping the contents of a cooler mash tun takes about 8 seconds, so it seems the only thing you're doing is having to clean the bag instead of cleaning the cooler.

Or are you pulling the grain, setting it aside, dumping the wort from the cooler into the pot so that you don't have to drain from the valve? If so, that sounds an awful lot like BIAB but with 2 pots instead of one, which also defeats the purpose.
Click to expand...

Really? Read the damn thread! No stuck sparge, no vorlouf, and it is easier (somewhat) to clean the bag than the entire cooler. Other than that, it's really not different at all.
 
LLBrewer said:
Really? Read the damn thread! No stuck sparge, no vorlouf, and it is easier (somewhat) to clean the bag than the entire cooler. Other than that, it's really not different at all.
Click to expand...
It is different. It just becomes a blurred line depending on the BIAB brewer and their specific process.
 
RonPopeil said:
I think the main point of contention will be that with the traditional all grain setup you're forcing the grain to act as a filter for the hot sparge water. When you dunk a bag in another pot your saturating more of the outside grain than what's in the center of the bag. Easy way around it is a ball valve on the kettle.

I don't see why you couldn't run a regular AG mash with all the grain in a bag. Just leave a good amount of space in the bag so the grain can shift and expand.

Basically, pull a bag from one pot to another = "BIAB". Draining the vessel the grain bag sits in from the bottom and batch sparging in the same kettle then draining from the bottom again = "All Grain" without the mess.

I blame BIAB for this confusion. It's so close to the regular process.
Click to expand...

I get your point, but when I dunk the grain in the second pot I do stir it up, so all the grain is getting soaked again... not just the outside.

Either way, no skin off my back, just curious. I just don't see the difference other than pulling a grain sack or using a valve. Still seems like both processes are using a bag to hold the grain... hence Brew In A Bag.
 
Yeah there's definitely a technicality involved somewhere. If your efficiency and grain saturation is good then it's kinda like splitting hairs.
 
dobe12 said:
I get your point, but when I dunk the grain in the second pot I do stir it up, so all the grain is getting soaked again... not just the outside.

Either way, no skin off my back, just curious. I just don't see the difference other than pulling a grain sack or using a valve. Still seems like both processes are using a bag to hold the grain... hence Brew In A Bag.
Click to expand...

You're 100% correct, other than the differences there aren't any differences. I mean, by your logic there isn't a difference between fly sparging, batch sparging, or RIMS because they all transform grain and water into wort.
 
LLBrewer said:
Really? Read the damn thread! No stuck sparge, no vorlouf, and it is easier (somewhat) to clean the bag than the entire cooler. Other than that, it's really not different at all.
Click to expand...

I did read the thread and still don't understand why you would do this. I have never had a stuck sparge, you don't have to vorlauf draining from the bottom if you don't want to, and cleaning a bag is way more work than cleaning a cooler.

I'm all for making your life easier, this just doesn't strike me as easier. It may speed things up a bit, and if that's why you do it then fine, but using a cooler as a mash tun with a false bottom isn't exactly tricky. And if you've already bought the equipment then this doesn't seem to do much.
 
I mean, what's the bottom line? If you can brew a full batch from grains without sacrificing extract efficiency why does the equipment make a difference? All Grain = not using extracts. Does it not?
 
Summerland said:
I did read the thread and still don't understand why you would do this. I have never had a stuck sparge, you don't have to vorlauf draining from the bottom if you don't want to, and cleaning a bag is way more work than cleaning a cooler.

I'm all for making your life easier, this just doesn't strike me as easier. It may speed things up a bit, and if that's why you do it then fine, but using a cooler as a mash tun with a false bottom isn't exactly tricky. And if you've already bought the equipment then this doesn't seem to do much.
Click to expand...

You've never had a stuck sparge? My guess is you are in the minority, consider yourself lucky. And if you don't vorlouf (and you batch sparge) you will get grain into the wort. As someone who has done it both ways cleaning a bag is easier. Dump the grain, rinse in sink, throw in washing machine. Who was making the claim that using a false bottom was tricky?
 
I had a stuck sparge but it was a flaw in the false bottom. I brought it back to LHBS and they fixed it. Never a problem since. If you crush chunky and take your time with the vorlauf it's not an issue.
 
I thought one of the main points of BIAB was using single boil kettle, both as mash tun and boil kettle, "mashing" in that and lifting to drain grain bag after mash time and boiling. So the mash volume would be way more than traditional 1.25 qt/lb grain. All the water at the start, use only one pot, maybe I read BIAB wrong.
 
For what it's worth, I've heard this referred to as "Mash-in-a-Bag." You get the benefits of the bag (easy cleanup, no stuck sparges) with the benefits of a separate mash vessel (insulation).
 
beavers said:
For what it's worth, I've heard this referred to as "Mash-in-a-Bag." You get the benefits of the bag (easy cleanup, no stuck sparges) with the benefits of a separate mash vessel (insulation).
Click to expand...
Heard that too. Really just splitting hairs, though. Where BIAB ends and MIAB begins is blurry. Many people who use BIAB use a second vessel for a dunk sparge (which would be called a batch sparge in coolers), and stir the grains just as you would in a cooler.

LLBrewer said:
You're 100% correct, other than the differences there aren't any differences. I mean, by your logic there isn't a difference between fly sparging, batch sparging, or RIMS because they all transform grain and water into wort.
Click to expand...
Relax. No need to get worked up about semantics here.
I heat up strike water in a pot, add a bag and pour grains in, stir, and rest until conversion. Sometimes I also infuse hot water or heat for a different rest. I also remove the bag, and dunk in a second pot with hot (or sometimes cold) water for a sparge to extract more sugars before adding that wort to the boil pot.
Sounds a lot like batch sparging and mashing in a cooler, except I use pot(s) without a valve and can direct heat if I wish.
The line is blurry. I would call what I do BIAB, but some would call it something else, I guess.:fro:
 
Using the bag while doing it All grain...then pulling a bag over to the trash can and dumping it into a garbage bag/can is a heck of a lot easier than cleaning a non lined cooler using the same all grain technique.. Just my 2 cents.


Cheers!
 
divrguy said:
Using the bag while doing it All grain...then pulling a bag over to the trash can and dumping it into a garbage bag/can is a heck of a lot easier than cleaning a non lined cooler using the same all grain technique.. Just my 2 cents.


Cheers!
Click to expand...

+1 I've done it both ways and the bag is easier. The cooler is a pita to get all the grain out from under the false bottom and I don't want to have to disassemble the mash tun after every brew day.
 
I wonder if a false bottom is still necessary when mashing like this. Anyone try it?
 
pdxal said:
Heard that too. Really just splitting hairs, though. Where BIAB ends and MIAB begins is blurry. Many people who use BIAB use a second vessel for a dunk sparge (which would be called a batch sparge in coolers), and stir the grains just as you would in a cooler.


Relax. No need to get worked up about semantics here.
I heat up strike water in a pot, add a bag and pour grains in, stir, and rest until conversion. Sometimes I also infuse hot water or heat for a different rest. I also remove the bag, and dunk in a second pot with hot (or sometimes cold) water for a sparge to extract more sugars before adding that wort to the boil pot.
Sounds a lot like batch sparging and mashing in a cooler, except I use pot(s) without a valve and can direct heat if I wish.
The line is blurry. I would call what I do BIAB, but some would call it something else, I guess.:fro:
Click to expand...

Not getting worked up lol. Look, it's really not a matter of semantics. BIAB doesn't require a mash tun or HLT but what we are talking about (MIAB or whatever) absolutely does. You probably wouldn't try to get your full boil volume from the initial mash doing MIAB (ugh) but you frequently would doing (BIAB). I never "dunk" the bag as most biab'ers do. As to whether that is just semantics or not is debatable I guess. Like I said, you could use similar logic to state that batch and fly sparging are the same and the differences are only semantic.
 
I MIAB for what its worth. I also pour the wort back through the bag in a strainer as a "vorlauf." Pour in sparge water and repeat. Super ghetto but 75% tonight on my IIPA with tons of wheat and maris otter. Not even close to a stuck sparge, which I have never had FWIW.

I just enjoy the simplicity of the setup. Easy clean, easy drain, easy clean up of grains
 
I batch sparge with a rectangular cooler and home-built PVC manifold. Had a horrendous stuck sparge after my first go with the new setup so I went to the LHBS and bought a voile bag that's roughly a foot and a half deep and a foot wide. I put the bag around the manifold as a second line of defense. No problems since. I Vorlauf consistently, but honestly I never really see the quality of the wort change (in terms of particles, etc) so I'm probably just wasting my time. I don't get any clean up aid from the bag because it isn't lining the cooler, but I like to soak the tun in oxyclean after brew day anyway. I can get all the hard to reach stuff with the soak.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
LLBrewer said:
I wonder if a false bottom is still necessary when mashing like this. Anyone try it?
Click to expand...

I think the consensus is no, unless you're adding heat to the mash tun somehow. The bag does all the filtering (and more!) that a false bottom or manifold would do, so unless you need to elevate the bag inside the tun to avoid scorching it when applying heat, no need for extra equipment.
 
LLBrewer said:
I wonder if a false bottom is still necessary when mashing like this. Anyone try it?
Click to expand...

It's not, I do all my brews this way as well. The point of the bag is essentially to replace the false bottom. If you already have a cooler (I use a rectangular picnic cooler), a piece of voile material costs pretty much nothing and you get all the benefits beavers described before while staying simple.

More over, with the grain bag you really don't need to heat anything around your mash tun. I heat my water outside, pour it inside the cooler until I reach the desired temp (and volume) and then dump the grain inside. When mashing is done, you can do pretty much the same thing with the pre-heated sparge water.

No scooping grain out of the cooler, no expensive false bottom, no vorlauf, no stuck sparge and good efficiency out of an already owned cooler and a piece of fabric, you can't beat that :ban:
 
For me it's a cost issue. I want to do 5 gallon BIAB batches, but I don't want to spend $315 for a 10 gallon brew kettle, propane burner and quality BIAB bag when I can get a 7.5 gallon turkey fryer/burner combo for $50, a 10 gallon round cooler for $45 and a quality BIAB bag for $35. Brew in a bag, mash in a bag, who cares about labels and technique purity? It's all about making beer and figuring out what works best for you. I don't care if the sausage maker cranks the grinder clockwise or counter clockwise as long as the sausage tastes good...
 

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