Request for Induction Equipment Information

My mistake on the model number, apologies. I have the Bosch NIT5665UC. The 11 inch burner in the middle is capable of 4.4 KW, which should make short work of 7 gallons. I replaced a cracked Dacor infrared cooktop with this one about a year ago. I generally have managed to sneak few brew days in outside in January and February, but this year seems to have been more challenging for me. That is why am exploring.

I share the weight fear. I was told that there are some people out there canning with this range who have asked the same question. 200lbs is more than twice what I would put on the burner.

IslandLizard said:

I get a decent boil with 7 gallons on my IC3500, with insulation, but I'm almost sure I don't get the full 3500W output. These triple ply bottoms are great to prevent scorching and give a better, more spread out heating surface than single ply, but I have the feeling some efficiency is lost.

Click to expand...

I 110% agree with this. I think the thick plating of the base wastes a lot of energy. I think the induction EM field isn't directly heating the top/inside bottom of the pot. I think the energy must radiate through the lower layers to the top and to the wort (via thermal conduction, which experiences energy loss at it spreads heat towards the wort). I'd like to run a test with cast iron, thin stainless pot, and triclad and time the difference. Someday.

Not to change the subject, but thick clad bottoms on a boil kettle do not help stop scorching because scorching with wort doesn't happen as it's not thick.

This is why Blichmann and some other manufacturers do not have a thick clad bottom. There's no point. We're not making spaghetti sauce.

Kal

kal said:

We're not making spaghetti sauce.

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Have you brewed with a large percentage of rye lately?

FWIW, I am cooking mostly with the Cuisinart MCP line, which is Tri ply, and I really like the heat distribution on the pots. I find it hard to believe that there is a loss, other than to say that there is residual energy lost when finished a chore. Certainly metering it would be a worthwhile project, but I don't have the tool do it, yet. I think that comparing induction to a flame based heat source only counts in the final product. I have a Blichman burner and kettle that I use regularly and find that hot spotting is different because the heat spills out beneath the fire and up the sides. An induction burner doesn't produce this same sort of behavior. The induction burner applies heat directly; the energy applied only moves because of a conductor of the energy, or the heat itself. A flame travels with convection of a different sort. I wish I were an engineer so that I could be more concise and factual. I am only reporting my hypothesis here....

I am going to brew with a 10 gallon mega pot 1.2. I am aiming for a full volume BIAB with about 5.75 gallons ending volume in the kettle. Stay tuned.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1424111536.040166.jpg

Here is a 10 gallon Mega Pot 1.2 sitting on the 36 inch Bosch NIT5665UC. With 6 US gallons @ 49F degrees. No lid. Set on Boost, 4400 watts from a dual ring 11 inch burner. It seems that boost times out and the burner drops to 9 every 10 minutes or so. I select boost again and it goes for another cycle.

70 @ 5 minutes
91 @ 10 mins
110 @ 15 mins
127 @ 20 mins
143 @ 25 mins
160 @ 30 mins
178 @ 35 mins put lid on cocked because of steam (fan would change results more)
192 @ 40 mins
207 @ 45
212 @ 48

By 50 minutes the boil was more than I would brew with. It looks like 8.0 with the lid cocked is about right for me. Ventilation is going to be my primary challenge I think.

Well the test boil was such a success, and I had pot full of hot water which had cooled, so I dropped a bag of grains in.... I brewed a classic special bitter. I did not insulated the pot and experimented with the lowest heat setting of 1.0 and it lost a few degrees. I was pleasantly surprised how low the burner would go. This system is going to work very well I think. The only challenge I have is condensate around the stove, but that should be manageable with some creative thinking. This is a very relaxing way to brew indoors, which is the only way on a day like today in the mid Atlantic. And I forgot how quickly I can chill a single batch with the immersion chiller, being that I usually brew doubles.

I got my induction hack working:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/induction-hack-add-external-probe-518213/

I modified the thermistor on an IC1800 to get it into a thermowell in the pot. The temp settings are usable and reliable now.

(fixed the link, thanks fellas)

Weezy said:

I got my induction hack working:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/induction-hack-add-external-probe-518213/

I modified the thermistor on an IC1800 to get it into a thermowell in the pot. The temp settings are usable and reliable now.

Click to expand...

Weezy, I fixed the link for you.

Weezy said:

I got my induction hack working:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/induction-hack-add-external-probe-518213/

I modified the thermistor on an IC1800 to get it into a thermowell in the pot. The temp settings are usable and reliable now.

Click to expand...

fixed the link, awesome job!

First test (just water)
Avantco IC3500
Bayou 1044 wrapped 5 times with reflectix (no lid) filled to brim
Outside 42 degrees
Full 3500 watt setting
50 mins to 158 mash in
12 mins to 176 mash out
20 mins to boil
Rolling boil at 2000 watts (tried 1800 watts--too week)
Have the basket/bag, just need to hook up pump to recirculate through rims
Hopefully weather stays good for next weekend
Cheers
Paul

As a late add-on, I'll paste what I posted in the 3500 watt burner thread:

I finally pulled the trigger on the Advantco 3500 induction burner, and ran a test yesterday.

This is 7 gallons of water in a Bayou 1044 kettle, uninsulated and uncovered. The Bayou 1044 is non-magnetic, yet seemed to work just fine.

Time, Temp, Rate Of Rise
0, 66
5, 78, 2.4
10, 90, 2.4
15, 104, 2.8
20, 116, 2.4
25, 129, 2.6
30, 142, 2.6
35, 153, 2.2
40, 164, 2.2
45, 174, 2.0
50, 183, 1.8
55, 192, 1.8
60, 200, 1.6
70, 212, 1.2

Overall, it wasn't bad. If I had a lid on the kettle, I'm sure it would have gone faster; especially towards the end when it was visibly steaming.

Also boiled off 1.1 gallons after a 60 minute boil. I had the burner on 3500 watts the whole time.

I also took the plunge on the ic3500. Using AIH 15gallon pot with similar results to those posted here. No insulation on it yet. Much faster and more violent boil than I could achieve on my stove top.

I finally got around to insulating my kettle. Two wraps of reflectix, and one on the lid.

Also decided to do a heat retention test. Filled the kettle with 8 gallons of hot tap water. It settled at 120 degrees f. It's only dropped 1/2 a degree in 45 minutes. I'm more than happy with the results.

The_Bishop said:

I finally got around to insulating my kettle. Two wraps of reflectix, and one on the lid.

Also decided to do a heat retention test. Filled the kettle with 8 gallons of hot tap water. It settled at 120 degrees f. It's only dropped 1/2 a degree in 45 minutes. I'm more than happy with the results.

Click to expand...

If you get a chance to repeat your water heating time temp experiment with the reflectix on it would be appreciated to see the difference

Will do. Possibly tomorrow, should have some free time.

Well, 11 days late is better than never. Here's the test with 8.5 gallons of water, from 62 degrees to boiling. I decided to use 8.5 gallons as a test because in all likelihood, that's roughly where my BIAB volumes should be.

This is with two wraps of Reflectix on the sides of the kettle, and a single layer on the lid. The lid seal wasn't perfect as I was using small binder clips to hold the reflectix in place and that wouldn't let the lid sit all the way down but I don't think there's a huge difference to be had. That being said, I have used gorilla packing tape to secure the reflectix to the lid and it'll sit flush now.

Time, Temp, Rate
0, 62
10, 85, 2.3
20, 108, 2.3
30, 131, 2.3
40, 153, 2.2
50, 174, 2.1
60, 194, 2.0
70, 212, 1.8

With the insulation, 1.5 gallons more volume, and a colder starting temp, I hit boil in 70 minutes. Was able to throttle the plate back more and keep a good rolling boil. Given that this was able to boil 8.5 gallons of water I'm now convinced that 10 gallon batches are indeed possible with this plate using a tall, narrow kettle and decent insulation.

And, because I had the hot water there and I was curious how the insulation would work at mash temps, I replaced some of the water with cooler water to hit 152.

Time, Temp
0, 152
15, 152
30, 151
45, 150
60, 150

A 2 degree drop over 60 minutes is fine, as far as I'm concerned. It's no big deal to fire up the plate and stir at the 30 minute mark if I'm really hell bent on keeping mash temps nailed down.

Now, if only my new counter-flow chiller would show up, I could *really* finish my stand...

Awesome! It appears the reflectix really helped it maintain the rate of increase as it approaches boil compared to without.

Awesome thread. Helped me a bunch while puttin together my eBIAB setup.
I'm posting my question here since I couldn't find a more specific thread on this.

My eBIAB setup includes the Avantco 3500 and the Bayou Classic 1060, and I use a pump to recirculate when step mashing or mashing out. In my last two batches I had serious scorching issues. The coil in the Avantco is fairly small and creates a hot spot at the bottom of the kettle.
I did a step mash, raised the temperature to mash-out (recirculating all the while), removed the BIAB bag, brought the wort to a boil at full power (3500W), then cut back to 2000W to maintain the boil. After 45 minutes, I smelled burnt wort, but at that point it was obviously too late to do anything about it. Looking at the bottom of the pot after, I had a black encrusted ring that was fairly hard to remove.

So I was wondering whether tri-clad-bottomed pots do a better job than mine does in distributing the heat more evenly to avoid scorching the wort. What I will be doing for now is to go through my usual mashing routine, mash out, then pump the wort to another vessel (my old cooler mash tun) so I can clean any gunk stuck to the bottom of the pot. From there, I guess the risk of a similar build-up of crud during the boil is unlikely. This adds another step to my brew day, but I have no other ideas at the moment.

Has anyone had similar issues and changed their hardware or their routine to counter this? Any info would be massively appreciated!

Cheers,
Frank

That's a bit odd, my Bayou 1044 is a single clad, and while I get a ring of 'stuff' where the induction hob is, it hasn't scorched on me.

Is it possible you shut down then restarted, allowing some of the trub to settle? The main issue with induction is how fast it gets the metal hot, especially if there's anything insulating it. When I get ready to boil, I'll usually stir around a bit to get everything in suspension and after that convective currents keep it there.

Wow, good tip! Can't recall if and how much I stirred, but I'll make sure to pay more attention next time. Would be awesome if forgetting to stir turned out to be my only issue . Thanks, Bishop!

frank_s said:

Awesome thread. Helped me a bunch while puttin together my eBIAB setup.
I'm posting my question here since I couldn't find a more specific thread on this.

My eBIAB setup includes the Avantco 3500 and the Bayou Classic 1060, and I use a pump to recirculate when step mashing or mashing out. In my last two batches I had serious scorching issues. The coil in the Avantco is fairly small and creates a hot spot at the bottom of the kettle.
I did a step mash, raised the temperature to mash-out (recirculating all the while), removed the BIAB bag, brought the wort to a boil at full power (3500W), then cut back to 2000W to maintain the boil. After 45 minutes, I smelled burnt wort, but at that point it was obviously too late to do anything about it. Looking at the bottom of the pot after, I had a black encrusted ring that was fairly hard to remove.

So I was wondering whether tri-clad-bottomed pots do a better job than mine does in distributing the heat more evenly to avoid scorching the wort. What I will be doing for now is to go through my usual mashing routine, mash out, then pump the wort to another vessel (my old cooler mash tun) so I can clean any gunk stuck to the bottom of the pot. From there, I guess the risk of a similar build-up of crud during the boil is unlikely. This adds another step to my brew day, but I have no other ideas at the moment.

Has anyone had similar issues and changed their hardware or their routine to counter this? Any info would be massively appreciated!

Cheers,
Frank

Click to expand...

I have a kettle with a tri-clad bottom, it surely helps to distribute the heat more, but I also get a 6" hot spot above the coil, and some sticky gooey grayish residue there. I only boil with the IC3500, mashing is done in a cooler, which makes step mashing all but impossible.

Does the scorch area form during mashing? Sounds like that's what you've narrowed it down to, hence the cleaning before starting the boil. Someone on HBT said that as soon as heat is removed from the kettle proteins sink and stick to the bottom, elements and what not. Then when resuming the heat it scorches.

With our IC3500, power (and thus heat) has a duty cycle, it's turned on and off perpetually, so for example, it's not 60% on, it's on at the max for 60% of the time. You can hear the high pitch whine when it cycles on. On my 8 gallon tri-clad bottomed kettle, I have the power set to 2900, 3100 or sometimes 3500 to maintain a good rolling boil. That means the heat is almost always on, rarely off.

No problem, glad I could help!

Cool, didn't think I'd get responses so soon.
I haven't actually tried my new pre-boil cleaning approach, since I ruined the second batch only yesterday, but I assume the additional amount of suspended solids created by single-vessel BIAB and step mashing are the cuplrits here. Mashing in a separate vessel and then transferring the wort reduces those solids in the wort and thus probably the chances of scorching. Since I mash in a bag in my boil kettle, it's pretty much impossible to get all those particles stirred off of the bottom of the pot while I heat to mash-out temperature (I do recirculate, though, and hoped that that would be enough). So I guess to avoid any fuss, I'd have to forget about step mashing and mashing out (i.e., not heat the wort while I can't stir any solids that have dropped to the bottom of the pot back into the wort) or I'd have to go back to using my mash tun.
Thanks, IslandLizard. Good info about the IC3500 always heating at full power. That explains the nasty ring of crud and why cutting back to 2000W during the boil didn't actually help.

For what it's worth, I BIAB with a voile bag (Wilserbrewer!) as well.

I just brewed an oatmeal stout that has 12% oatmeal in the grist with an OG of 1.062. It's a thick, viscous wort.

No scorching. All I had was a light tan ring of 'stuff' where the induction hob was. It cleaned off relatively easily. I did stir a bit before firing up the hob after draining the mash bag,

When I did a little math, the heated area in the kettle is pretty high watt density. It comes in somewhere around 90-100 watts/square inch on 3500 watts.

@Bishop: Do you do any step mashing or use a mash-out step when BIABing? Or do you use a single-temp mash, pull the bag, then ramp up to boil while stirring? Looking at all the info, that seems to be the easiest way to avoid scorching.

I'll occasionally add heat during the mash, with the element set low, like 1800 degrees. Makes for a good arm workout while stirring.

I've previously done mash-outs. Yesterday's brew, however, I did not. I pulled the bag, gave a quick stir to make sure nothing had settled on the bottom of the kettle, then fired it up while I squeezed the bejesus out of the bag.

Hit 80% brewhouse yesterday, too.

I have not had any experience with a Bayou kettle. After installing my Bosch cooktop I decided to experiment indoors. I bought a ten gallon Megapot 1.2 which I think is a triclad pot. I don't have pump. I do BIAB. I have not had any issues of scorching with my 4400 watt burner. I am not sure this helps, but thought I would share my experience with BIAB with induction. Ventilation is my primary challenge with a down draft arrangement.

Tweaked my process and added a lot more stirring to the equation, and that helped. This time, no scorching. I was experimenting with overnight mashing in a kettle with the Bayou steamer basket holding my BIAB bag. Apparently recirculating wasn't enough to keep the sediment settled on the bottom from burning. Moved to a two-vessel system and am using my Bayou and induction range just for heating strike water and boiling. Feels much safer!

I'm glad I stumbled upon this thread. I've got to read it all.

Does anyone know if/have experience with the Jarhill Ebay pots will work well with the Avantco 3500 top? They are single walled super cheap pots that say "compatible with induction heating"

Confirmed today that both the 62 qt Bayou Classic and the cheap 20 dollar 5 gallon SS pot from AIH work flawlessly on the Avantco.

The Humpty dance is the chance, to do the Hump!

Great thread, thanks to all.

Does anyone use a Spike Kettle for induction? The V3 models are said to be induction, and I'm sure they are, I just wonder, has anyone actually used one, and how did it go? I have the 15 gallon model, would love to insulate and induct.

burdbrew said:

Great thread, thanks to all.

Does anyone use a Spike Kettle for induction? The V3 models are said to be induction, and I'm sure they are, I just wonder, has anyone actually used one, and how did it go? I have the 15 gallon model, would love to insulate and induct.

Click to expand...

Yes I do, works great! I have a 10 gal v3 and I notice it heats much more uniformly compared to my thin walled pots.

I did a review for homebrew academy here: http://homebrewacademy.com/spike-kettle-review/

Thanks for that Brett. I have the 15 gallon kettle, I do 5 and 10 gallon batches. Some on this post are doing 10 gallon batches with induction, I will certain try it (with insulation on the pot, for sure).

I went to your link, and you say reference the long dip tube on the Spike kettle as being a downer. They do offer a smaller version now that picks up closer to the edge of the kettle; it works great. Your feedback may well have lead to the change, just thought I'd mention.

Thanks again....

• Induction Burner: Avantco IC1800
• Model # of Kettle: SS Brewtech Kettle Mini (5.5 gal)
• Heats 4.22 gals from 80 degrees F to 212 degrees F in 69 mins (with lid on)

This was a new purchase and just a test.

I filled up my kettle with 16 Liters of water that happened to be 80 degrees F (probably should have done mash temperature to boiling). I set the Avantco IC1800 to its highest power setting (15).As listed above it took 69 minutes to heat to boiling 212 degrees F with the lid on the kettle. If I took the lid off completely the temperature dropped to 208 degrees F and the boil was very weak. When I left the partially off (covering 75% of the top of the kettle) the kettle maintained a strong boil but my dial thermometer read below 212 degrees F. The fan is not too loud but there was a really high pitched noise the entire time, which may not be a problem for older folks that can't hear high pitched noises. If you don't have access to a 220v outlet and do small batches, this may work. I am pretty happy with these results but the real test will come on brew day.

ins_and_outs said:

• Induction Burner: Avantco IC1800
• Model # of Kettle: SS Brewtech Kettle Mini (5.5 gal)
• Heats 4.22 gals from 80 degrees F to 212 degrees F in 69 mins (with lid on)

This was a new purchase and just a test.

I filled up my kettle with 16 Liters of water that happened to be 80 degrees F (probably should have done mash temperature to boiling). I set the Avantco IC1800 to its highest power setting (15).As listed above it took 69 minutes to heat to boiling 212 degrees F with the lid on the kettle. If I took the lid off completely the temperature dropped to 208 degrees F and the boil was very weak. When I left the partially off (covering 75% of the top of the kettle) the kettle maintained a strong boil but my dial thermometer read below 212 degrees F. The fan is not too loud but there was a really high pitched noise the entire time, which may not be a problem for older folks that can't hear high pitched noises. If you don't have access to a 220v outlet and do small batches, this may work. I am pretty happy with these results but the real test will come on brew day. View attachment 575823

Click to expand...

Wrap that sucker in reflextix and you will shave off a nice chunk of time all things considered.