New Beer TV show on Discovery! "How Beer saved the world"

StarCityBrewMaster · Jan 30, 2011

Antibiotics and refrigeration were invented by beer! Those are the two aspects of the show I found to be most intriguing.

well played beer!

RugenBrau · Jan 30, 2011

I missed the show but saw it was on again at 11:00. After reading this I'm glad I missed it. I can get some sleep tonight.

Bulls Beers · Jan 30, 2011

The best show on beer, imo was the Modern Marvels episode called "brewing". Great show. I dvr'd it and watch it from time to time.

sudsmcgee · Jan 30, 2011

Bulls Beers said:
What was the other thing they said? Back in the middle ages that each person drank 90 liters a year. 6 times more than today. Huh? I must drink a lot.

Beer in those days was 1-2% abv at best. It was their equivalent of water. It was NOT the beer we drink today. That was perhaps the only thing the show got right. :cross:

Revvy · Jan 30, 2011

sudsmcgee said:
Beer in those days was 1-2% abv at best. It was their equivalent of water. It was NOT the beer we drink today. That was perhaps the only thing the show got right. :cross:

WRONG...Only the 2nd or 3rd runnings beers, called "table" "kids" or "small" beers where 1-2% ABV. Most beers were higher than that. They had everything from barleywines to our "average" abv beers. They didn't sparge, but often brewed partigyles, and made multiple beers from the same grain.

sudsmcgee · Jan 30, 2011

Revvy said:
WRONG...Only the 2nd or 3rd runnings beers, called "table" "kids" or "small" beers where 1-2% ABV. Most beers were higher than that. They had everything from barleywines to our "average" abv beers. They didn't sparge, but often brewed partigyles, and made multiple beers from the same grain.

I hope you're pulling my leg.

Kinda presumptuous, no? References please. And don't tell me "Blank Expert Said So". Everyone is an expert in their own mind.

How did they crush the barley? Stone mills before they knew beer was beer? How did they measure ABV without hydrometers or some other modern piece of equipment? Floating weighted straw husks? How could modern man possibly even know what ABV they produced considering it would have evaporated thousands of years ago?

I respect what you say because clearly you are a man who knows his stuff, but I am a scientist by nature and I like facts.

Revvy · Jan 30, 2011

sudsmcgee said:
I hope you're pulling my leg.

Kinda presumptuous, no? References please. And don't tell me "Blank Expert Said So". Everyone is an expert in their own mind.

How did they crush the barley? Stone mills before they knew beer was beer? How did they measure ABV without hydrometers or some other modern piece of equipment? Floating weighted straw husks? How could modern man possibly even know what ABV they produced considering it would have evaporated thousands of years ago?

I respect what you say because clearly you are a man who knows his stuff, but I am a scientist by nature and I like facts.

Uh...Just about any book on the history of brewing......

sudsmcgee · Jan 30, 2011

I admit that I've not read them. So please name the best one worth reading sir.

sudsmcgee · Jan 30, 2011

And I was referencing the earliest man, not man 1000 year ago.

Revvy · Jan 30, 2011

sudsmcgee said:
I admit that I've not read them. So please name the best one worth reading sir.

Grab any book and start reading.

Here's a bit on Partigyling for instance. http://www.byo.com/component/resource/article/2021-parti-gyle-brewing-techniques

Or the history of porters, or "shilling beers"

You could also search some of the historical references I've posted in here. Hell look at any info on DOgfish heads beers, both on here and elsewhere. All those beers were pretty strong.

I don't where you got your notions, but if you you can make flour for baking, you can make beer...and they've been making both since prior to ancient Babylon...if fact in the prayer to nikasi they outiline their recipe for brewing with bread. Google Bappir or Maltose Falcons Babylon brewing. Some of my stuff is here https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/brewing-bread-209505/#post2459997

Besides you don't have to take a gravity reading to make a strong beer. X pounds of grain = Y abv points, so if they were using 10 pounds of grain for a 5 gallon batch of beer it sure as heck wasn't a 1-2% beer.

1-2% abv beers?!?! Sheesh.......

BelligerentAlbino · Jan 30, 2011

when my girlfriend was up I asked her to grab me a......BEER. Not sure I can say the word without an obnoxious pause and strained pronunciation.

The only good part was the chic that implied she does sexual favors for..... BEER. see there I go again.

doctorRobert · Jan 30, 2011

sudsmcgee said:
I hope you're pulling my leg.

Kinda presumptuous, no? References please. And don't tell me "Blank Expert Said So". Everyone is an expert in their own mind.

How did they crush the barley? Stone mills before they knew beer was beer? How did they measure ABV without hydrometers or some other modern piece of equipment? Floating weighted straw husks? How could modern man possibly even know what ABV they produced considering it would have evaporated thousands of years ago?

I respect what you say because clearly you are a man who knows his stuff, but I am a scientist by nature and I like facts.

Ugh. I don't know why most people have the perception that everyone came before must have been complete *******, because they had fewer luxeries.

It was very likely to be high in abv based on the ability to hold off bacteria, travel well, and it got people drunk, go read benjamin franklins biography, which references strong and weak beer.

The fact people were kilning grains 1000 years ago (per moshers book), means they knew, at least a little bit, what they were doing. Give them some credit. You don't need a hydrometer to figure this out. They made 80 proof whiskey without that kind of science, I'm sure they figured out how to make strong beer.

Beer was invented 10,000 years ago. They even know grains needed to be malted then. After 9000 years, I'm sure they figured some **** out, like how to make a decent session beer, and how to make a beer for Friday night.

For you to be correct, people would have to ignore recipe creation for all of history until they invented the hydrometer. I'm sure it didn't take long to learn more barley equals more fun.

Id suggest you go out and get any of randy moshers book. His radical brewing book is quite excellent.

bob1852 · Jan 30, 2011

bob1852 · Jan 30, 2011

sudsmcgee said:
How did they crush the barley?

sudsmcgee said:
Stone mills before they knew beer was beer?

Considering they were making bread (i.e. flour) before they were making beer......I'm sure they knew how to grind grains.

sudsmcgee said:
How did they measure ABV without hydrometers or some other modern piece of equipment? Floating weighted straw husks?

They probably experimented with a bunch of different batches and figured out that Johnny's (who use A LOT more grain/bread in his beer) didn't go sour as quick.

Just because they didn't "measure" OG/FG/ABV, doesn't mean it was 1-2% ABV beer.

sudsmcgee said:
How could modern man possibly even know what ABV they produced considering it would have evaporated thousands of years ago?

That's easy; take an ancient recipe and run the numbers...

sudsmcgee · Jan 30, 2011

Revvy said:
Grab any book and start reading.

Here's a bit on Partigyling for instance. http://www.byo.com/component/resource/article/2021-parti-gyle-brewing-techniques

Or the history of porters, or "shilling beers"

You could also search some of the historical references I've posted in here. Hell look at any info on DOgfish heads beers, both on here and elsewhere. All those beers were pretty strong.

I don't where you got your notions, but if you you can make flour for baking, you can make beer...and they've been making both since prior to ancient Babylon...if fact in the prayer to nikasi they outiline their recipe for brewing with bread. Google Bappir or Maltose Falcons Babylon brewing. Some of my stuff is here https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/brewing-bread-209505/#post2459997

Besides you don't have to take a gravity reading to make a strong beer. X pounds of grain = Y abv points, so if they were using 10 pounds of grain for a 5 gallon batch of beer it sure as heck wasn't a 1-2% beer.

1-2% abv beers?!?! Sheesh.......

Perhaps we should establish some timelines here. I am referring to beer production before man knew what "beer" really was or how it was made. When beer was known as safe water.

I don't know how long ago this was, but this show referenced the earliest production of "beer". So my question is, how long ago did modern "beer" start to get produced. I read that hops weren't added until hundreds of years ago.

Revvy · Jan 30, 2011

sudsmcgee said:
Perhaps we should establish some timelines here. I am referring to beer production before man knew what "beer" really was or how it was made. When beer was known as safe water.

I don't know how long ago this was, but this show referenced the earliest production of "beer". So my question is, how long ago did modern "beer" start to get produced. I read that hops weren't added until hundreds of years ago.

We don't need to establish anything.....I've given you posts goign back to ancinet babylon in the above...

And how bout this stuff I posted today. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/dangers-homebrewing-124653/index2.html#post2597566 And more in there as well.

Google is a good thing too.

sudsmcgee · Jan 30, 2011

doctorRobert said:
Ugh. I don't know why most people have the perception that everyone came before must have been complete *******, because they had fewer luxeries.

It was very likely to be high in abv based on the ability to hold off bacteria, travel well, and it got people drunk, go read benjamin franklins biography, which references strong and weak beer.

Yeah, but I'm talking about the original beer made 10,000 years ago. The earliest beer that started the whole interest in beer in general. They clearly didn't mash the barley at that point. I'm looking to clear up the historical origin of beer, not to dispute how it progressed over the years.

sudsmcgee · Jan 30, 2011

AZ_IPA said:

Technically, this didn't happen until the last millennium.

sudsmcgee · Jan 30, 2011

AZ_IPA said:
That's easy; take an ancient recipe and run the numbers...

Using what strain of yeast? Everyone assumes they had modern strains that tolerate high ABV.

Revvy · Jan 30, 2011

sudsmcgee said:
Using what strain of yeast? Everyone assumes they had modern strains that tolerate high ABV.

Dude, it seems like you are trolling now...how aboutyou start reading some of those links I just took time out posting for you since you seemed un interested to do it for yourself. Then why don't you have a new tab opened up to google, and when something interesting pops up, then google that and it will take you on the same journey most of us did to learn this information we're sharing. I think you have enough to clear up those misconceptions you are operating under. Like I said, in the last few minutes, while wathcing the pro-bowl I manged to dig up links referring to 8-10,000 years of brewing history and post them...SO I'm sure you can make use of them. :mug:

Revvy · Jan 30, 2011

sudsmcgee said:
Using what strain of yeast? Everyone assumes they had modern strains that tolerate high ABV.

Look up "Yeast sticks" while you are at it.....

sudsmcgee · Jan 30, 2011

Revvy said:
We don't need to establish anything.....I've given you posts goign back to ancinet babylon in the above...

And how bout this stuff I posted today. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/dangers-homebrewing-124653/index2.html#post2597566 And more in there as well.

Google is a good thing too.

Great, that reference goes back 5,500 years. What about the prior 4,500 years? I'm not disputing you, just looking for the earliest recorded history.

doctorRobert · Jan 30, 2011

sudsmcgee said:
Yeah, but I'm talking about the original beer made 10,000 years ago. The earliest beer that started the whole interest in beer in general. They clearly didn't mash the barley at that point. I'm looking to clear up the historical origin of beer, not to dispute how it progressed over the years.

They did mash. Also is randy mosher's book radical brewing.

Revvy · Jan 30, 2011

sudsmcgee said:
Great, that reference goes back 5,500 years. What about the prior 4,500 years? I'm not disputing you, just looking for the earliest recorded history.

sudsmcgee · Jan 30, 2011

Revvy said:
Dude, it seems like you are trolling now...how aboutyou start reading some of those links I just took time out posting for you since you seemed un interested to do it for yourself. Then why don't you have a new tab opened up to google, and when something interesting pops up, then google that and it will take you on the same journey most of us did to learn this information we're sharing. I think you have enough to clear up those misconceptions you are operating under. Like I said, in the last few minutes, while wathcing the pro-bowl I manged to dig up links referring to 8-10,000 years of brewing history and post them...SO I'm sure you can make use of them.

I'm not trolling. So I'm supposed to read 10,000 years of history while we've been having this discussion that has lasted less than one hour? Let's get real now.

You've constantly copied text from your prior posts here. I was hoping you'd copy one single reference relating to brewing from 10,000 years ago. Sorry to have bothered you. I'll go and research it.

sudsmcgee · Jan 30, 2011

Revvy said:

I guess that's one way to be a *********.

sudsmcgee · Jan 30, 2011

doctorRobert said:
They did mash. Also is randy mosher's book radical brewing.

And how qualified is Randy Mosher? A quick search showed not very much.

bob1852 · Jan 30, 2011

sudsmcgee said:
Using what strain of yeast? Everyone assumes they had modern strains that tolerate high ABV.

I don't assume that. I assume they used wild yeast...

FWIW, the Apache Indians made a beer called tiswin or tulapai where they "malted" corn; dried it; ground it; mashed it; and fermented it with wild yeast in trenches lined with corn husks. ABV? I would assume ~6% based on the recipes I've seen from the Apache's themselves.

Nevermind. You're right. They used Wyeast 1056 and sanitized with Star-San 10,000 years ago....

And since hops have only been used in brewing for a few hundred years; beer is technically only a few hundred years old.

count_dookie · Jan 30, 2011

Bulls Beers said:
What was the other thing they said? Back in the middle ages that each person drank 90 liters a year. 6 times more than today. Huh? I must drink a lot.

I just did the math on that and it works out to just over 8oz of beer a day, I dont think I could live in such primitive times

Revvy · Jan 30, 2011

sudsmcgee said:
I guess that's one way to be a *********.

Another way, a bigger way to be a DB, is everytime someone takes time to post some info for you, or in my case, do the searching that you could do yourself, to provide links to help you, you promptly say it isn't good enough for you. You did that to each and every poster in here, besides me who posted some bit of info for you, EVEN if it was just a cartoon. It's as if after we wipe your butt for you, you complain that the paper was too hard, or we didn't put talcom powder on you. You didn't even thank ANY of us for taking the time to do what we did. All you did was complain and ask more more more...Or shoot down the info...Or ask about the qualifications....That's what I call D-baggery.

*shrug*

New Beer TV show on Discovery! "How Beer saved the world"

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