Ayinger Celebrator

I hadn't had many dopplebocks that I've liked. I was digging thru my keezer earlier and discovered a bottle of Ayinger Celebrator that I bought around Feb/March of this year.

Incredible beer! Does anyone have a clone?

No recipe, but....

I hear that WLP833 will give you fermentation characteristics similar to those of the Ayinger Brewery.

Or read Ninkasi Winner Gordon Strong's comment here: (#12)
http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=3164.0

Celebrator is one of my favorite beers. Infact, last time I found some, I bought a case. All of the plastic goats on the bottles got turned Christmas ornaments.

Have you tried Paulaner Salvator?

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/ayinger-celebrator-doppelbock-clone-132174/

haven't tried Salvator, is that similar to Celebrator?

I've had both, I find Salvator to have a bit more of an alcohol bite and isn't as smooth as Celebrator. I should probably buy a bottle of each today and give a side by side comparison.

found this on another site:

Here's what they have in BYO's 150 Classic Clone Recipes mag:

Ayinger Celebrator clone
5 gallons / AG recipe
OG: 1.077
FG: 1.024
IBU: 22 SRM: 23
ABV: 6.7%

10.2 lbs Pilsner malt
2.33 lbs Munich malt (10oL)
2.33 lbs Munich malt (20oL)
0.5 lbs Dehusked Carafa II

1.5 oz. Hallertau 4% AA (60 min)
1 tsp Irish moss

Click to expand...

I don't know about this recipe. There is a lot of raisin / coffee / awesomeness, and I'm not sure if just munich and a half pound of dehusked carafa II is gonna get it there.

Thoughts?

All the flavor will come from the Munich. I've not used the 20L Munich before. I would guess the flavor would be a bit bigger than the 10L.

Carafa II is added for color. It quickly turns it dark without adding the roasty flavors.

I'm a big fan of German Lagers. I'm sure this will be a great beer. My favorites always seem to be a combination of Pils, Munich, Carafa II, and CaraMunich.

Do you have temperature controll to do your lager?

yeah i have temp control.

i've done 2 lagers in the past, first wasn't that great, the second was pretty decent.

the above recipe lists the following mash profile:

Single decoction mash w/ 15 min rest at 131F and a 45-minute rest at 158F. Boil wort for 90 mins. Ferment at 55F. Allow temp to rise to 60F for two days when fermentation is complete, then rack to secondary and cool to 40F. Lager for at least six weeks.

Click to expand...

158 seems right, this has to finish at 1.025 from 1.077 to get the target abv.

motobrewer said:

found this on another site:

Quote:
Here's what they have in BYO's 150 Classic Clone Recipes mag:

Ayinger Celebrator clone
5 gallons / AG recipe
OG: 1.077
FG: 1.024
IBU: 22 SRM: 23
ABV: 6.7%

10.2 lbs Pilsner malt
2.33 lbs Munich malt (10oL)
2.33 lbs Munich malt (20oL)
0.5 lbs Dehusked Carafa II

1.5 oz. Hallertau 4% AA (60 min)
1 tsp Irish moss

I don't know about this recipe. There is a lot of raisin / coffee / awesomeness, and I'm not sure if just munich and a half pound of dehusked carafa II is gonna get it there.

Thoughts?

Click to expand...

I recently brewed this recipe. It has been lagering for three months already, and I tasted a sample two days ago, and it is very good, but it is too sweet to be a clone of Celebrator.

I used a triple decoction mash schedule, and the beer attenuated remarkably well, but it does not taste like Celebrator. I think the Pils malt makes it a little too sweet, and when I brew this recipe again, I will substitute Vienna malt to see if that gets me any closer.

I love Celebrator, and I am dedicated to coming as close as possible to cloning it.

motobrewer said:

yeah i have temp control.

i've done 2 lagers in the past, first wasn't that great, the second was pretty decent.

the above recipe lists the following mash profile:

Quote:
Single decoction mash w/ 15 min rest at 131F and a 45-minute rest at 158F. Boil wort for 90 mins. Ferment at 55F. Allow temp to rise to 60F for two days when fermentation is complete, then rack to secondary and cool to 40F. Lager for at least six weeks.

158 seems right, this has to finish at 1.025 from 1.077 to get the target abv.

Click to expand...

Based on my experience, I can't imagine an FG of 1.025 would be good for a Celebrator clone. I have seen this number quoted for the FG before, and I keep meaning to take a sample myself, but I'm not sure if this is practical for cloning purposes. My attempt got down to 1.016, and it is too sweet for Celebrator.

Ayinger is one of the last traditional breweries in Munich. That means they make dopplebock the traditional way. Munich malt (the darker variety from a german maltster), triple decoction, 4 hour boil.

You can make a good beer with melanoiden malt and caramunich, but it will not be Celebrator.

so, pure dark munich grain bill?

4 hour boil!

GrainCounter said:

Based on my experience, I can't imagine an FG of 1.025 would be good for a Celebrator clone. I have seen this number quoted for the FG before, and I keep meaning to take a sample myself, but I'm not sure if this is practical for cloning purposes. My attempt got down to 1.016, and it is too sweet for Celebrator.

Click to expand...

This is from Ayinger's website. 18.5 plato OG, 6.7% abv.

motobrewer said:

so, pure dark munich grain bill?

4 hour boil!

Click to expand...

Traditionally thats what a bock is, munich malt, triple decoction, long boil. Ayinger still does it this way (not sure on the length of the boil, 4 hours would be a max, it is definitely over 2).

A lot of modern breweries use some pilsner, a less intense mash, and then melanoiden and caramunich. This gives a different character. It may be like some other german dopplebocks, but not celebrator.

Remember that dark german munich is about 10 L give or take, not this 20L briess stuff.

that's for the information.

as for munich, so use something like Munich II from weyermann (8.5srm)?

motobrewer said:

that's for the information.

as for munich, so use something like Munich II from weyermann (8.5srm)?

Click to expand...

I have no idea where Ayinger is sourcing malt but that would be the correct choice from Weyermann. Most other dark munich malts from German maltsters are a hair darker (like 10 L).

Global Malt has 12L dark munich.

triple decoction, long boil....this might have to wait until i have better equipment...

Best Malz has Ayinger on their website of "breweries"...

can't seem to find their dark munich anywhere...

ok, so I had bells consecrator on tap last night ($4 for a full pint, good deal!)

This was more what I think of when I think dopple.

Celebrator reminds me of a schwartzbier, am i really gonna get that with pure munich grain bill?