Just opened a Duchesse De Bourgogne

Now, this is an interesting beer. I've tried some lambics and a Berliner weiss, this is nothing like those. Almost tastes like a wine, not very sour though.

It's a flanders brown. Makes a killer cheesecake too

ericd said:

It's a flanders brown. Makes a killer cheesecake too

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Actually its a flanders red, the browns are more subtle in the sourness than the reds

I agree duchesse is a good one, its pretty tame as far as flanders reds go, as it is blended with a healthy portion of unsoured wort before bottling which sweetens and cuts the sourness, get ahold of a rodenbach grand, then youll see how amazing these beers can be

ryane said:

get ahold of a rodenbach grand, then youll see how amazing these beers can be

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If only it were that easy. I haven't been able to find ANY Rodenback for over a year.

Speaking of finding rodenbach....I'd been looking for some lately and wasn't having any luck. A couple weeks ago I drove by a small liqour store in a small town and thought I'd stop in and check their beer selection. They had an area with about 60 or so loose bottles with a sign: "any 6 bottles for $4.99." I left there with about 4 six packs of hard-to-find beer, which included 3 bottles of rodenbach (the 8.75oz bottles...not the grand cru).

Didn't mean to hijack...I'm just so excited that I had to share.

I had read that rodenbach lost their importer into the USA. I really miss it..

I saw RGC on tap at Capital Ale House in richmond just last week. If they lost their distro, then it was very recently...and that would suck ass.

The Duchesse has varying levels of sourness in my experience. Bottle variation is normal. I've had VERY sour bottles, and very tame bottles. Wild yeast and bacteria aren't exactly predictable.

I actually tried it on tap at CAH once, and I had to send it back. I love the Duchesse from the bottle, but this keg...it was so vinegary, it was not unlike balsamic vinaigrette. Ugh. So apparently the bottle variation extends to kegs as well.

Evan! said:

The Duchesse has varying levels of sourness in my experience. Bottle variation is normal. I've had VERY sour bottles, and very tame bottles. Wild yeast and bacteria aren't exactly predictable.

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Thats strange, Ive never had one that I thought was excessively sour, or had much of an acetic character

the variations you mention are very weird considering that duchesse is pasteurized

Evan! said:

The Duchesse has varying levels of sourness in my experience. Bottle variation is normal. I've had VERY sour bottles, and very tame bottles. Wild yeast and bacteria aren't exactly predictable.

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Evan!, I'm glad someone else mentioned this. I don't know a lot of others in my area who drink the Duchesse, but I find it's so different from one bottle to the next. Sometimes sour, sometimes more like a wine character, and other times a slightly balsamic vinegar flavor. My favorite bar in San Francisco used to carry it and I was always surprised how much it varied.

I had the pleasure recently of going to a GREAT bar in Brookline, MA (The Publick House) that had both the Duchess and Monk's Cafe Flemish Sour. I did a side by side tasting and decided that I like the more pronounced earthyness of the Monks Cafe. It was a tough call and it took me a few hours and three bottles of each to make my decision but I toughed it out and made the call. Not that there is anything wrong with the Duchess. In fact, since I can get the Duchess in three local stores and I only know of one where I can get Monks Cafe, and it is a half hour drive in the wrong direction, I tend to drink the Duchess more often.
PTN

Love this beer. A buddy of mine is an absolute fiend for it.

I'm with Ryane, Dutchess is a blend of young (sweet) and old, barrel aged beers which is then filtered and pasteurized. There should really be no reason for bottle to bottle variation unless someone is screwing up at the brewery.
Finishing up a bottle of Rodenback GC right now and aside from my disapointment that it's not bottle conditioned (and hence no dregs for the sours), it's just an amazing beer.

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paulthenurse said:

I had the pleasure recently of going to a GREAT bar in Brookline, MA (The Publick House) that had both the Duchess and Monk's Cafe Flemish Sour.
PTN

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Why go all the way to the Publick house Paul... I've got the Duchess on tap at my house.

MWAAAAA HAAAA HAAAA!!!!!!!!

Man, I can't wait to get home tonight and pour myself a nice glass.

Cause the bartender at the Publick House is hot. That's why.

Hes got you there.

What style of beer is the Duchess? and was your clone close to the original?

We'll find out in a year or so.

The clone was of Russian River's Consecration which... the best way to describe Concescration is that it is the big brother of the Duchess in every way... actually... maybe not sweeter but everything else is bigger. It is Duchess on steroids.


And trust me.. I wasn't telling you to come over Paul... I'm perfectly happy having that entire keg of Duchess to myself.


(Thedude123... I have a commercial keg of Duchess at my house right now and on tap down at my bar... which is extra schweet because it is driving Paul crazy)

Cape Brewing said:

The clone was of Russian River's Consecration which... the best way to describe Concescration is that it is the big brother of the Duchess in every way... actually... maybe not sweeter but everything else is bigger. It is Duchess on steroids.

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I did a halfa$$ed search for your recipe with no luck. Do you mind throwing up a link or the recipe?

The recipe didn't get published on HBT. After we fought for pages and pages on another thread about how we should make it, I got fed up and emailed Vinnie at Russian River directly. He emailed me back within 35 minutes with the actual recipe for Consecration. I thought it was incredibly cool for him to get back to me and actually give me the recipe and I thought it would be kind of a doosh move to then turn around and publish it for all eternity on the innerwebs so I did not publish it.

Where did you guys get your wine barrel?

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f20/brewfest-so-big-you-can-see-space-120985/index74.html

Don't want to hijack this thread going too far down the path on our group brew. I'll answer you over on that thread.

I had this on tap recently and it was my first sour beer. I may have to come over to the sour side after tasting it. It was great.

ryane said:

the variations you mention are very weird considering that duchesse is pasteurized

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dreadnatty08 said:

I'm with Ryane, Dutchess is a blend of young (sweet) and old, barrel aged beers which is then filtered and pasteurized.

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Actually, it's not. Says right on the label, "100% natural and unpasteurized."

FlyingHorse said:

Actually, it's not. Says right on the label, "100% natural and unpasteurized."

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Okay, I guess I just assumed it was pasteurized since Rodenbach is. But, it seems it's filtered, so their should not be any live bugs.
Brewing Flemish Red Ale, by Raj B. Apte
On page 63 of Wild Brews, Sparrow writes that it is pasteurized so who knows if they changed this practice or if he is wrong.

Not a big fan of the Duchesse - Zoetzuur is a lot more enjoyable among the "sweet" Flanders Reds, in my opinion.
For the more straightforward reds I really like La Folie and Rodenbach Grand Cru, which I sadly haven't been able to find since Christmas last year, either.

I love the Duchesse. I have had a few over the years and I must not have been paying enough attention, as I do not recall much variance. Maybe I just got lucky and they were pretty similar.

This is one of my favorite beers of all time. To me it almost has a cider taste. I've even gotten non-beer drinkers into it.

ArcaneXor said:

Rodenbach Grand Cru, which I sadly haven't been able to find since Christmas last year, either.

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I've had Rodenbach is having issues with customs or distributors or something along those lines, and its not currently being imported.

I just picked up a couple bottles of RGC form a little liquor store in DC, 1900 block of L st NW I think. First place I have ever seen it. I asked the guy about it since I have not been able to find it elsewhere. He said they just started selling "single serving" beer due to some recently changed law. Did not know about it being difficult to find previously.

Synovia said:

I've had Rodenbach is having issues with customs or distributors or something along those lines, and its not currently being imported.

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Yeah. I was finally able to track down a bunch of them and am saving them for special events until the imports resume.

Huh, I just found a couple bottles of rodenbach grand cru at a whole foods, talking to the beer guy there he said it came available from their distributor about 2 weeks ago, I was pretty stoked and ended up buying almost every one they had

I've been looking for Rodenbach for about 2 months now (since I brewed my F.R.). Still haven't found it. I feel like I'm only one step away from being able to get the Duchesse at the 7-11. That stuff is seemingly everywhere.

Duchesse is pretty good, a little sweeter than I like my Flanders Reds, but I love the vinegar character it has. Myself and a few guys from my club are getting together in a couple weeks to do a Flanders Red tasting and decide what our favorite is, as of now this is the list:

Rodenbach Grand Cru
Rodenbach Vin de Cereale
Duchess de Bourgonne
Zoetzuur
Monk's Cafe
Panil
La Folie
La Roja (Not sure if this is considered a true Flemish Red but it's the closest JP has and they rock)
Two Brothers Moaten
Liefmans Goudenband Sour Brown (Oud Bruin really, but I found it so why not)
Redbach
Ommegang Rouge

My current favorites are Rouge and La Folie, but I haven't had some of these other ones. Hopefully at least half of these have viable dregs, I am going to put the dregs of every bottle into one and take it home to dump in my barrel of Flanders Red.

Duchesse is one of the worst beers I have ever put in my mouth, but it has been a while since I have tried it. Really vile stuff. The sweetness and the vinegar triggered my gag reflex. Blech.

Well, I hear they make beer using rocky mountain spring water in your area. You could give that a try. ;-)

Ouch!!!



890

ericd said:

It's a flanders brown. Makes a killer cheesecake too

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care to share a recipe?

Ok ok, settle down. I didn't really think it was an amazing beer either.

Munsoned said:

I've been looking for Rodenbach for about 2 months now (since I brewed my F.R.). Still haven't found it. I feel like I'm only one step away from being able to get the Duchesse at the 7-11. That stuff is seemingly everywhere.

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RFD has Rodenbach. I just bought one at village pump in College park

Bobby_M said:

Well, I hear they make beer using rocky mountain spring water in your area. You could give that a try. ;-)

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Hah, I get a similar response whenever I tell some folks about my extreme hatred for this beer. Again, it has been a year+ since I have had it, but I can't bring myself to buy another bottle, just remembering my awful experience with it in the past. I keep hoping someone will bring a bottle to a homebrew club meeting. Perhaps I will bring one this week. At least that way, if I still hate it, 4/5 of the bottle won't get dumped like it did last time.

Give me Rodenbach Grand Cru, La Folie, Consecration, Supplication, ANY Cantillon, Drie Fontenein, Lindeman's Cuvee Renee, De Proef, hell even Zoetzuur over the Duchesse. Blech I say, BLECH!