German Smoked Rye Ale?

Jebu1788 · Dec 5, 2010

Hey everybody. In a bit over a week I'll be heading to my parents' house for Christmas, and they have asked me to brew them a beer like I did over the summer. Catch is, it'll really have to be something that can be bottled in about 2-3 weeks. My idea is since my dad really likes rye beers and smoked beers to combine the two. So here's what I've got:

5-gallons, 75% efficiency.
OG: 1.056
IBUs: 25.4

4.00 lb Rye Malt (4.7 SRM) Grain 36.04 %
3.00 lb Smoked Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 27.03 %
3.00 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 27.03 %
1.00 lb Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 9.01 %

1.00 oz Tettnang [4.50 %] (60 min) Hops 15.8 IBU
1.00 oz Tettnang [4.50 %] (20 min) Hops 9.6 IBU

1 Pkgs German Ale/Kolsch (White Labs #WLP029) Yeast-Ale

And maybe just a touch of Carafa I for some more color... I know the Wyeast German ale does not flocculate well, but will the Kolsch yeast here fall out quick enough do you think? I'm open to any suggestions about the recipe.

Thanks!

Oldsock · Dec 6, 2010

Looks good to me. I don’t think I’ve used 029 (at least not recently) but I had really slow flocculation with the Wyeast Kolsch strain I used for a few beers earlier this fall. Good luck.

Tread82 · Dec 6, 2010

Id go for less vienna and replace it with some pilsner malt. For me I'd go with half a pound of Vienna and 2.5 lbs pilsner.

Oldsock · Dec 6, 2010

Tread82 said:
Id go for less vienna and replace it with some pilsner malt. For me I'd go with half a pound of Vienna and 2.5 lbs pilsner.

Out of curiosity, why? I dont think .5 lbs of Vienna would show through the smoke and rye. Vienna isn't overpowering as 100% of the grist, at 30% the nice bready/malty flavor should complement the beer nicely.

Jebu1788 · Dec 6, 2010

Oldsock said:
Out of curiosity, why? I dont think .5 lbs of Vienna would show through the smoke and rye. Vienna isn't overpowering as 100% of the grist, at 30% the nice bready/malty flavor should complement the beer nicely.

I'm a bit curious as well. I was actually thinking the rye may be too strong for a sort of experimental brew for me, so I was thinking about dropping it down to 3 lbs of rye and bumping Vienna up to 4lbs.

I could certainly replace some with pilsner and had considered that, but liked the idea of having the breadiness and nice orange color Vienna imparts. So I'm still open for suggestions, just curious as to why.

Tread82 · Dec 6, 2010

I just like a beer with more perceived dryness with smoke and rye flavor. I'm probably not experienced enough with all these ingredients together to really give advice. Sorry bout that.

Jebu1788 · Dec 6, 2010

Tread82 said:
I just like a beer with more perceived dryness with smoke and rye flavor. I'm probably not experienced enough with all these ingredients together to really give advice. Sorry bout that.

Oh no, that's a good point. I didn't mean to come of as defensive or anything, as I was genuinely interested in why. I have only made one rye beer (only 2 lbs), and never done anything with smoke, so like I said, I'm completely open to suggestions. So I definitely appreciate the input!

LexusChris · Dec 6, 2010

Greets!

I've not brewed with smoked malt before, but I might be concerned with 'too much' smoked flavor for such a young beer. (unless you have used it before, and know what to expect!)

Perhaps you should go light on the smoked malt, considering it will not get a long time to mellow out with age?

Best wishes & Good luck!
--LexusChris

cactusgarrett · Dec 7, 2010

This looks very similar to a New Glarus brew soon to hit the shelves. The brewer working on it when i toured said it was 30% smoked malt and 30% rye malt, with the rest base (pils would work, as suggested).

The hops are slightly different, but as far as the grist, it sounds like you're in the right direction for a winner. I would probably, also, change the vienna for base in order to showcase the rye and smoke better.

Jebu1788 · Dec 7, 2010

Hmm. I appreciate the input everyone. After reading up a bit here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/rauchbier-my-first-recipe-liquid-sausage-91428/ I feel pretty safe with 30% smoked malt. I kind of had it in my head to have some bastard child of a Märzen with Kolsch yeast as the base. And I don't want to turn it into a malt soup type thing, so now I really need to decide whether to go with Vienna or Pilsner, but I've got some time to decide. I'm glad the responses seem to be pretty positive; I was worried I'd get a bunch of "Oh God! Don't do that!" replies.

4.00 lb Vienna (or Pilsner) Malt Grain 36.04 %
3.00 lb Rye Malt (4.7 SRM) Grain 27.03 %
3.00 lb Smoked Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 27.03 %
1.00 lb Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 9.01 %

1.00 oz Tettnang [4.50 %] (60 min) Hops 15.8 IBU
1.00 oz Tettnang [4.50 %] (20 min) Hops 9.6 IBU

1 Pkgs German Ale/Kolsch (White Labs #WLP029) Yeast-Ale

Jebu1788 · Dec 28, 2010

Well, in case anyone is wondering, here's an update:

I brewed this last Sunday and transferred to secondary today. Went with the Vienna malts, but had poor efficiency. 1.046 fermented down to 1.010, but I'm happy with that.

As far as taste goes, I'm hopeful. It will be interesting to see how it finishes off since the smoke and rye certainly are not overwhelming, and even with a low SG, the sample tasted pretty sweet.

Jebu1788 · Jan 30, 2011

I just cracked open the first of these bad boys tonight.

This recipe is definitely a keeper! The beer is really extremely well balanced; the low OG and the lager like WLP029 yeast makes it a very sessionable beer. Slightly sweet and malty with a slight spice to it, the smoke adds just a vague suggestion of bacon. Nothing is overly dominant and the rye blends right in with Tettnang hops and smoke malt.

I used an ounce or so of Carafa I for color, so it's a nice, deep orange-tan. Still slightly cloudy, and I may have undercarbed just a bit, but I'll sure be brewing this one again!

German Smoked Rye Ale?

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