Zymurgy Pocahontas Pumpkin Ale (2013)

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seatbelt123

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Anybody else going to brew this?

I'm about to brew the all grain version referenced in the article. Here's the recipe, with a few adjustments for my system.

In the article the author says that this recipe has been evolving for the past 15 years. He believes that it is the "perfect" pumpkin ale recipe. He calls it Pocahontas Pumpkin Ale. In the article he does a step mash (I skipped that in my transcription below).

He brews 10 gallons and splits it between ale and Belgian yeasts.


Perfect Pumpkin Ale (Zymurgy 08-13)
Style: Christmas / Winter Specialty Spiced Beer
OG: 1.071
Type: All Grain FG: 1.019
Rating: 0.0 ABV: 6.81 %
Calories: 233 IBU's: 24.79
Efficiency: 75 % Boil Size: 13.30 Gal
Color: 12.4 SRM Batch Size: 10.00 Gal
Preboil OG: 1.055 Boil Time: 90 minutes

Fermentation Steps
Name Days / Temp
Primary 10 days @ 65.0°F

Grains & Adjuncts
Amount Percentage Name Time Gravity
19.00 lbs 58.91 % Pale Malt (2 Row) US 60 mins 1.036
1.00 lbs 3.10 % Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L 60 mins 1.034
1.00 lbs 3.10 % Victory Malt 60 mins 1.034
1.25 lbs 3.88 % Melanoiden Malt 60 mins 1.037
2.00 lbs 6.20 % Maple Syrup 60 mins 1.030
2.00 lbs 6.20 % Honey 60 mins 1.035
6.00 lbs 18.60 % Pumpkin (Canned) 60 mins 1.000

Hops
Amount IBU's Name Time AA %
1.00 ozs 24.79 Magnum 90 mins 14.00

Yeasts
Amount Name Laboratory / ID
1.00 pkg East Coast Ale White Labs 0008

Additions
Amount Name Time Stage
1.00 tbsp Pumpkin Pie (McCormick) 00 mins Boil

Mash Profile
Light Body Infusion In 60 min @ 152.0°F
Add 27.81 qt ( 1.25 qt/lb ) water @ 168.9°F

Carbonation
(none)

Notes

www.iBrewMaster.com Version: 2.820
 
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seatbelt123

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I haven't yet. I'm shooting for next weekend too.
 

rcsoccer

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I brew a couple of pumpkin ales every year for my annual Halloween party. I've had excellent results with adding the pumpkin pie spices to the secondary, and I add about 3 tsp.

Fair warning to be careful with mashing the pumpkin. It adds a lot of starch to the mash that will be converted to the simplest sugars imaginable. All of my pumpkin ales have ended around 1.010 or lower because of this and are REALLY strong. This year I think I will mash at a higher temp and add the pumpkin after 30-45 mins of mashing to see what happens.

Also, I would add the maple syrup and honey into the fermentor after a few days in primary so that you keep most of the aroma and flavor. Otherwise, just leave it out.

I also put pecans in my Pumpkin Porter last year. It was fantastic!

Just my $0.02

Cheers!
 

sleepystevenson

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Thanks for the tips, RC.

I am gonna try the mash schedule per the author - with the protein rest. Hopefully that will help out with the lauter.

I had considered adding the honey/maple syrup post fermentation to cold stored kegs to give it more sweetness and flavor. But I don't know. Last time I made a pumpkin ale was years ago..... and I think my tinkering with that recipe lead to it being undrinkable..... Trying to ignore the little creative voices this time and follow the recipe!

The pecans sound awesome! Did the oils from them give you any trouble with head retention? Any chance you have the recipe...? Not too late too late to make a last minute change.....!
 

rcsoccer

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I don't have my recipe anymore (computer was stolen). However, I do remember what I did with the pecans. Put about 2 cups of pecans in a bag and break them up a little bit. Put them on a baking sheet covered in aluminum foil and toast them at around 350 for 30 mins, or until they taste and smell like you want them to. Make sure you turn them every so often so they don't burn. Dab them with paper towels to get most of the oils off. Toss them in the mash with the pumpkin.
 
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seatbelt123

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Cool. Lets use this thread to share our results. Good luck!
 

Osterhoc

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I'm brewing this today, going exactly per the recipe/process posted in zymurgy
 

gandelf

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I brew and do some cooking; their is a significant difference in the flavor derived from cooked versus non-cooked spices. Refer to what Gordon Strong has to say concerning this. For me, I steep (10 min) typically 75 % of the spice charge; I then dry spice the remaining 25 % post fermentation tasting once a day. From past experience; I always purchase the freshest spices and crack them to reduce residue.
 

stompbox

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Perfect Pumpkin Ale (Zymurgy 08-13)
Style: Christmas / Winter Specialty Spiced Beer
OG: 1.071
Type: All Grain FG: 1.019
Rating: 0.0 ABV: 6.81 %
Calories: 233 IBU's: 24.79
Efficiency: 75 % Boil Size: 13.30 Gal
Color: 12.4 SRM Batch Size: 10.00 Gal
Preboil OG: 1.055 Boil Time: 90 minutes

Fermentation Steps
Name Days / Temp
Primary 10 days @ 65.0°F

Grains & Adjuncts
Amount Percentage Name Time Gravity
19.00 lbs 58.91 % Pale Malt (2 Row) US 60 mins 1.036
1.00 lbs 3.10 % Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L 60 mins 1.034
1.00 lbs 3.10 % Victory Malt 60 mins 1.034
1.25 lbs 3.88 % Melanoiden Malt 60 mins 1.037
2.00 lbs 6.20 % Maple Syrup 60 mins 1.030
2.00 lbs 6.20 % Honey 60 mins 1.035
6.00 lbs 18.60 % Pumpkin (Canned) 60 mins 1.000


Hops
Amount IBU's Name Time AA %
1.00 ozs 24.79 Magnum 90 mins 14.00

Yeasts
Amount Name Laboratory / ID
1.00 pkg East Coast Ale White Labs 0008

Additions
Amount Name Time Stage
1.00 tbsp Pumpkin Pie (McCormick) 00 mins Boil

Mash Profile
Light Body Infusion In 60 min @ 152.0°F
Add 27.81 qt ( 1.25 qt/lb ) water @ 168.9°F

Carbonation
(none)

Notes

www.iBrewMaster.com Version: 2.820
Are the bold ingrediants to go in the mash? It is listed with all the malts.
 

sleepystevenson

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The pumpkin goes in the mash. The honey and maple syrup go in at the end of boil. (along with the spices.)

I made 25 gals of this yesterday, pretty much exactly per the recipe (just doubled). Split the batch in half and pitched the WL East Coast Ale in one fermenter and US05 in the other (not a big saison lover.)

The pumpkin did make for a cement-like mash, even with 4 Lbs+/- of rice hulls and the protein rest. It wasn't a problem as long as you stirred the mash regularly.

The mash was a bazaar orange color, but I forgot to snap a pic. During the first part of the mash, there was a strong pumpkin aroma that subdued throughout the mash. Still the pumpkin aroma was detectable in the boil. After killing the flame and adding the honey, maple syrup, and spices, the wort smelled great! Tasted pretty good outta the hydrometer tube, too!

My OG was around 1.062. The recipe originally called for 1.070 OG but I pared it down a bit, as I prefer beers under 7%

The blowoff tubes were bubbling this morning with a pretty good aroma!

:mug:
 

sleepystevenson

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Not sure why the OP worded it that way.

As written in Zymurgy it was Honey/Maple syrup "End of Boil", Spices at "knockout"

I put all three things in the boil as soon as I cut the flame, stirred it really well for a couple mins then fired up the chiller.

There are a few other discrepancies as well - the original called for:

12 gallon recipe - 10 gals final product
OG: 1.070
FG: 1.014
Efficiency: 85%
IBU: 28
SRM: 13

Mash:
10 mins protein rest at 120
60 mins Sacc. rest at 154
10 mins mash out at 168

Split batch: 1/2 ferment with east coast ale, other 1/2 w/ the Saison yeast

Ferment at 68 for two weeks.

Hope that helps you out.
 

loctones

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Does the article give any advice on aging time? I'd like to make the saison variant of this this weekend, but it's going to be over 8% if I use 3711. I'd like to be drinking this some time in December, ideally having it be tasting great for Christmas dinner. If that's too soon for the saison variant, I'll probably make it with east coast ale.
 
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seatbelt123

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loctones said:
Does the article give any advice on aging time? I'd like to make the saison variant of this this weekend, but it's going to be over 8% if I use 3711. I'd like to be drinking this some time in December, ideally having it be tasting great for Christmas dinner. If that's too soon for the saison variant, I'll probably make it with east coast ale.
Yes, that's exactly what the author did. Brewed in late August or early September and let the saison batch age longer for turkey day. Keep us posted.
 

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I put this beer in a keg today. Tasted pretty great. I brew a pumpkin for my wife every year. She was interested in this recipe so I went with it. Brewed exactly as printed but used Nottingham and Belle Saison. They both came out great. The Nottingham went to FG:1.014 and the Belle Saison is at 1.009 right now. Im letting the Saison sit for a little longer and then that will get bottled. I kegged the English half. Hopefully my wife doesn't drink all of it before our annual Halloween party...
 
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seatbelt123

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I put this beer in a keg today. Tasted pretty great. I brew a pumpkin for my wife every year. She was interested in this recipe so I went with it. Brewed exactly as printed but used Nottingham and Belle Saison. They both came out great. The Nottingham went to FG:1.014 and the Belle Saison is at 1.009 right now. Im letting the Saison sit for a little longer and then that will get bottled. I kegged the English half. Hopefully my wife doesn't drink all of it before our annual Halloween party...
Awesome! Thanks for the update my fermenter frees up this week so this recipe is next in line.
 

Gitmoe

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It was one of the most expensive beers I've ever made though. That's my only complaint. The maple syrup and honey will age back into the flavor profile over time if you let it sit but I'm not 100% convinced they are worth the cost if you're going to drink the beer fresh. I would be interested to sub the syrup for brown sugar and the honey for another simple sugar. If I didn't work at a LHBS I probably wouldn't have made this beer due to cost. My regular pumpkin recipe is much cheaper...
 

sleepystevenson

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Hey Gitmoe - did you end up using the pie spice in the keg as called for in the recipe? If so, what do you think of the level of spice now?

Just wondering as I will be kegging mine within the next week. I always like to err on the side of caution when it comes to spices!


It was damn expensive for 25 gallons....!
 

JLP

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I just brewed this last Saturday for the woman. I have to say that the wort tasted outstanding, and she is in high spirits for it. I use Rubbermaid Coolers, so I took a different method with the protein rest. I took my 8 gallon boil pot, added 5 gallons of water (1.5 quarts per pound) and dissolved the pumpkin. Once it was all mixed in, I added the grain to the pot. I brought it up to 120 degrees for 10 minutes, and then brought the grain temp up to 156 degrees. I then added the mash to the mash tun, and heated the rest of the water up to make for 1.75 quarts per pound to 160 degrees. Finally, I added the water to the mash, and stirred it in until it evened out the temp of the mash tun to 154 degrees. I had zero issues with the pumpkin sticking up my mash. Just as a heads up on how to do this for those with non advanced equipment.
 

Gitmoe

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Hey Gitmoe - did you end up using the pie spice in the keg as called for in the recipe? If so, what do you think of the level of spice now?

Just wondering as I will be kegging mine within the next week. I always like to err on the side of caution when it comes to spices!


It was damn expensive for 25 gallons....!
I didn't add more spice before kegging. I let my wife taste the gravity sample and she was happy with the level of spice out of the fermentor so I didn't add any more. The spice is pretty low and subtle.
 

loctones

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I brewed a slight variation of the saison version of this over the weekend. I subbed some toasted Maris Otter for the Victory malt, and toned down the SG a little bit. I attempted to do a decoction to mash out, but it didn't raise the temperature as much as I expected. Even with 8 oz. of rice hulls and a protein rest, I still got a stuck sparge, so I added some extra hulls for the second portion of the batch sparge.

Overall, it was a pleasant brew day, and the wort smelled and tasted fantastic. I used WLP566, as it was described as having some clove characteristics. I might also add some oak for a short time post-fermentation to add a little vanilla character and supplement the mouthfeel. I'm really looking forward to drinking this come Christmas.
 
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seatbelt123

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I still haven brewed this but I did brew my first lager. It came out great (a rauchbier). Now I'm thinking of doing this as a lager, thoughts?
 

sleepystevenson

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I kegged it yesterday after 18 days in the fermenter. First 2 weeks at 65 degrees, then dropped to high 30's. Added 1 teaspoon of the spice mixture to one keg of the East Coast Ale version and one keg of the 05 version. (as called for in the recipe.) In the other keg of each version, I just used 1/2 teaspoon. Force carbonating them now at 40 degrees.

Final gravities were East Coast: 1.013 US 05: 1.011

I have to say, it was pretty tasty fresh out of the fermenters. It is a nice light orange color. The pumpkin flavor was definitely very evident, with the subtle spice taste, too. I kinda like the straightforwardness of this beer - there isn't a TON of heavy dark malt, alcohol, hops, etc to compete with the pumpkin/spice... as seems to be the "norm" for craft pumpkins these days. The honey/maple syrup definitely added a certain kind of a sweetness (different from the malty-sweetness of a beer with a higher final gravity.) Both yeasts were similar, though the East Coast Ale was a little "softer / rounder" so to speak than the US05.

Looking forward to trying this one again in a couple weeks to see how the flavors develop / meld. Especially in regard to the honey/maple syrup. I think it's gonna be great after some time in the keg - perfect timing for Halloween!
 

loctones

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That's good to hear. I was surprised at the level of pumpkin flavor in the beer. This was my first pumpkin beer, and I kept reading of people saying that you can't taste the pumpkin. I could definitely taste it pre-fermentation.

The recipe recommends adding a teaspoon of spice directly to the keg, as well? I had not read that. Perhaps I'll try that, or make a tincture to dose with. Please update us when you've let the beer sit and compared the 1/2 tsp. vs. 1 tsp. kegs.
 

msjulian

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Brewed as printed on Saturday except I roasted the pumpkin for 45 min.. Pitched cal ale yeast. Going in to the fermenter it was spot on pumpkin pie. After 2.5 days in the primary it has dropped to 1.024 and the spice is really low. The pumpkin is coming through really well. Will have to add some more spice at kegging. Not sure if it is best to just add the spice to the keg or make a spice tea and dose to taste.
 

rcsoccer

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Brewed as printed on Saturday except I roasted the pumpkin for 45 min.. Pitched cal ale yeast. Going in to the fermenter it was spot on pumpkin pie. After 2.5 days in the primary it has dropped to 1.024 and the spice is really low. The pumpkin is coming through really well. Will have to add some more spice at kegging. Not sure if it is best to just add the spice to the keg or make a spice tea and dose to taste.
I usually add about 4 tsp of pumpkin pie spice mix to the secondary only. I don't add any to the boil. Just taste a little bit of it and then judge whether to add some or not.

Cheers!
 

sleepystevenson

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Have had a chance to empty some kegs of this, and it has been well received pretty much universally. It's the pumpkin beer you can actually drink multiple pints of!

My version took first place at Hoptoberfest - (a homebrew event in Pittsburgh) last weekend!

1 tsp of the spice per keg is the right amount to my taste.

The honey and syrup definitely add another dimension to this beer. The honey is very evident in the aroma. Despite the fairly low final gravities (1.013 East coast ale and 1.011 US05) there is a certain sweetness that I attribute to the honey/syrup. In the 05 version, the cleaner yeast definitely brings out the individual flavors of the pumpkin and spices. The East Coast version is softer and the flavors are more melded and not as distinct. Both versions are really good, but if I was pressed to pick which is my favorite, it would be the East Coast Ale.

This is a very quaffable pumpkin. Not in-your-face like too many of the pumpkins now seem to be. You definitely know you are drinking a pumpkin ale and can taste the pumpkin, spice, honey/syrup - but they are all nicely balanced. I had many people at the homebrew event tell me it was the best pumpkin they had this year. (Including my buddy who is a beer judge and had just finished a mixed 12 pack of various pumpkin ales the week before!) I will probably make this one again, despite the expense!
 

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This is by far the best pumpkin beer I have ever tasted! It is pumpkin pie in your mouth! The brewery in town couldn't believe how good it was. They were floored. I brewed it exactly as per the recipe except for the roasting of the pumpkin. It will definitely be on my yearly brew list.
 

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My saison version is still very slowly fermenting away. It was at 1.008 when I checked it last week. Even with a lower OG, this thing is on it's way to 8.5% ABV or so. Hopefully it finishes up in a week or two and I can have it bottled and tasting good for Christmas dinner
 

Mycues1982

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Going to give this a shot this week. Is the recipe in the first post the same as written? Going to do a 5 gallon batch so I'm going to split the recipe in half.
 

Mycues1982

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Meant to say 10 gallons in the last post.. Anyway I brewed this and hit my levels and numbers perfectly! I'm going to keg the ale and bottle the saison I think. Does anyone have a suggested co2 volume for these especially the saison? Thanks
 

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I just brewed this yesterday and the wort sample was great, my wife wouldn't put it down. I am actually thinking about splitting off 2 gallons and aging it on brandy soaked oak chips. Other than overshooting my OG (1.076 vs 1.071) the brew day went pretty smoothly. Only thing I really changed is I used Wyeast American Ale II (WY2772) instead of the East Coast Ale.

To any of the previous posters, any updates on how this beer came out or how it aged?

Recipe scaled for full volume BIAB,
9.5 Gallons mash water
9 Gallons wort collected
6.75 Gallons wort at flame out
6.5 Gallons wort at ambient
.5 Gallons wort lost
6 Gallons wort into fermenter


Perfect Pumpkin Ale (Zymurgy 08-13)
Style: Christmas / Winter Specialty Spiced Beer
OG: 1.071
Type: All Grain FG: 1.019
ABV: 6.81 %
Calories: 233 IBU's: 28
Efficiency: 85 % Boil Size: 9.00 Gal
Color: 12.4 SRM Batch Size: 6.00 Gal
Preboil OG: 1.047 Boil Time: 90 minutes

Fermentation Steps
Name Days / Temp
Primary 10 days @ 68.0°F

Grains & Adjuncts
Amount Percentage Name Time Gravity
11.4 lbs 58.91 % Pale Malt (2 Row) US 60 mins 1.036
0.60 lbs 3.10 % Crystal Malt - 60L 60 mins 1.034
0.60 lbs 3.10 % Victory Malt 60 mins 1.034
0.75 lbs 3.88 % Melanoiden Malt 60 mins 1.037
3.60 lbs 18.60 % Pumpkin (Canned) 60 mins 1.???
1.20 lbs 6.20 % Maple Syrup 0 mins 1.???
1.20 lbs 6.20 % Honey 0 mins 1.???


Hops
Amount IBU's Name Time AA %
1.00 ozs 28 Magnum 90 mins 10.30

Yeasts
Amount Name Laboratory / ID
1.00 pkg American Ale II Wyeast 1272

Additions
Amount Name Time Stage
1.00 tbsp Pumpkin Pie (McCormick) 00 mins Boil

Mash Profile - BIAB 9.5 gallons water
Protein Rest 10 min @ 121.0°F
Saccharification 60 min @ 154.0°F
Mash out water 10 min @ 168.0°F

Water Profile
CA 54.5 Mg 0 Sodium 8 Sulfate 48.2 Chloride 63.9 SO4 / Cl Ratio .8

9.5 Gallons RO Water
3g Gypsum
4.5g CaCl
4ml 85% Phosphoric Acid

Notes
Add Honey, Maple Syrup, and Pumpkin Pie Spice at Flame Out
 

MrSnacks

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Has anyone done this recipe with just straight ale yeast, no saison? I don't have the capacity to do 10 gallon batches at the moment.
 

JLP

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KFun, the beer ages well. I saved some to try at a year old, and I liked it. I'm traveling, so I don't have any tasting notes on me. MrSnacks, just scale the recipe down to a 5 gallon size, and pitch your preferred ale yeast. WLP008 works very well with it. I brewed as per the original recipe last year, and used it as a base for my own interpretation this year.
 

cuda6pak

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What grade maple syrup did you guys use (and does it mention it in the Zymurgy article)? From what I understand Grade B or C will bring along some flavor while A will pretty much completely ferment out. Also, what kind of honey?
 

loctones

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What grade maple syrup did you guys use
I used grade B. Tasted both A and B side by side and I decided I liked the flavor of the grade B more. I've heard that the B grade will leave more flavor, too, but I've not done any actual comparisons.
 

cuda6pak

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I used grade B. Tasted both A and B side by side and I decided I liked the flavor of the grade B more. I've heard that the B grade will leave more flavor, too, but I've not done any actual comparisons.
How did your batch end up? Did you wind up using a spice tincture into the keg?
 
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