Youngs Pilsner Lager

[Craig57]

Good afternoon everyone.
Could anyone offer any advice/guidance on my first attempt at brewing lager at home. I have followed the instructions to the letter so far, but the issue i currently have is that the hydrometer reading for the second day in a row is reading 1.12.
The brew has seemed to have finished fermenting after 6 days so i thought i'd take a reading as per the instructions to see if its ready for the bottling process and its not at the required level on the hyrdrometer.
Is there anything else i can do to ensure it reaches its 1.00 - 1.06 reading or do i just have to wait a little longer?
My thoughts are to add more yeast but im not sure without asking proper advice from those that are in the know, and does the first batch need to be transferred over to another clean fermenting bucket (as you do with wine making)?
Thanks in advance

Craig

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

What was the beers OG? What yeast was used? What temperature was maintained during the fermentation?

1.012 SG seems perfectly acceptable as a beers FG. 1.000 FG would be totally unheard of for beer unless bacterial contamination spoiled the yeast, and even 1.006 FG seems strangely low (albeit that this is OG dependent).

Lager yeast generally deliver about 75% to perhaps 82% apparent attenuation. If your beer began at 1.048 OG and attenuated to 80% it would finish at 48 x (1-0.80) = 10, or at an FG of 1.010. If it attenuated to 75% this would be 48 x (1-0.75) = 12, or at an FG of 1.012.

 

[Craig57]

What was the beers OG? What yeast was used? What temperature was maintained during the fermentation?

1.012 SG seems perfectly acceptable as a beers FG. 1.000 FG would be totally unheard of for beer unless bacterial contamination spoiled the yeast, and even 1.006 FG seems strangely low (albeit that this is OG dependent).

Lager yeast generally deliver about 75% to perhaps 82% apparent attenuation. If your beer began at 1.048 OG and attenuated to 80% it would finish at 48 x (1-0.80) = 10, or at an FG of 1.010. If it attenuated to 75% this would be 48 x (1-0.75) = 12, or at an FG of 1.012.

The reading is 1.12 and not 1.012 as you state, not sure where you got that reading from?
The OG was 1.42, temp was maintained between 20-22 degrees. The yeast that was used was issued with the Youngs Kit.
Hope this helps?

 

[Craig57]

The reading is 1.12 and not 1.012 as you state, not sure where you got that reading from?
The OG was 1.42, temp was maintained between 20-22 degrees. The yeast that was used was issued with the Youngs Kit.
Hope this helps?

Now having re read the hydrometer i see where you get that 1.012 from (apologies). I read the hydrometer without adding the extra zero, however, the fact still remains according to the literature i got with the kit that it is still off the mark of where it needs to be?

 

[rsquared]

The reading is 1.12 and not 1.012 as you state, not sure where you got that reading from?
The OG was 1.42, temp was maintained between 20-22 degrees. The yeast that was used was issued with the Youngs Kit.
Hope this helps?

If you read 12 points on your hydrometer, that means it was 1.012. It's a common mistake for beginners to leave off the first zero and list it as 1.12, and therefore it's a fair (and correct in this case) assumption to say that your FG was 1.012.

A gravity of 1.12 (aka 1.120) is around where you might expect a strong imperial stout or barley wine to start. A gravity of 1.42 is average for pure honey.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

The reading is 1.12 and not 1.012 as you state, not sure where you got that reading from?
The OG was 1.42, temp was maintained between 20-22 degrees. The yeast that was used was issued with the Youngs Kit.
Hope this helps?

You had me thinking that you were fermenting something along the lines of straight raw honey. Glad to see that it's coming around for you. 1.012 ending and 1.042 starting means an apparent attenuation of 71.4%. It's entirely possible that it is finished. Give it a few more days if you need to gain confidence in your 1.012 reading.

 

[Craig57]

If you read 12 points on your hydrometer, that means it was 1.012. It's a common mistake for beginners to leave off the first zero and list it as 1.12, and therefore it's a fair (and correct in this case) assumption to say that your FG was 1.012.

A gravity of 1.12 (aka 1.120) is around where you might expect a strong imperial stout or barley wine to start. A gravity of 1.42 is average for pure honey.

Your quite right i did miss the extra zero off the reading, however, its still not at the required reading that the literature provided claims it needs to be? Its started out at 1.044 and is now 1.012. The literature says it needs to be 1.00 - 1.006 before i can move on to the next stage?

 

[VikeMan]

Is there anything else i can do to ensure it reaches its 1.00 - 1.06 reading or do i just have to wait a little longer?

Why are you expecting it to finish at 1.000 to 1.006?

 

[Craig57]

Why are you expecting it to finish at 1.000 to 1.006?

Hello, im only expecting this reading as this is what the youngs literature that came with the kit states? As im new at this im trying to stick to the book so to speak to make sure i dont make any errors in the making. How will i know the strength of this now?

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

82% apparent attenuation would place it at 1.008 as the FG. No matter what, if it holds at 1.012 for a couple more days, and there are no signs of fermentation, it's done fermenting. You could try gently rousing the yeast, but you don't want to introduce air into it at this juncture. A brief gentle stir. Don't shake it.

 

[Craig57]

82% apparent attenuation would place it at 1.008 as the FG. No matter what, if it holds at 1.012 for a couple more days, and there are no signs of fermentation, it's done fermenting. You could try gently rousing the yeast, but you don't want to introduce air into it at this juncture. A brief gentle stir. Don't shake it.

So basically take the lid off and gently stir the mix up then replace the lid again?
Not sure what the 82% attenuation means too, thats a tad deep for now..

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

So basically take the lid off and gently stir the mix up then replace the lid again?

Even that will introduce oxygen. A long narrow spoon handle through the fermentation cork opening might be better. Or just let it sit a few more days.

I have it at between 3.94% and 3.98% ABV via two different methods (rudimentary and Novotny). Brewer's Friend online calculator says 3.94% ABV.

The rudimentary method is: ABV = 131.25 * (OG-FG)
It gives generally decent for output until you get into higher ABV's.

 

[Craig57]

Even that will introduce oxygen. A long narrow spoon handle through the fermentation cork opening might be better. Or just let it sit a few more days.

I have it at between 3.93% and 3.98% ABV via two different methods.

Thats impressive to know how you know that, i'd really like to know how you get to that figure for future reference? I was trying to aim for a 5% so im way off the mark here.

 

[rsquared]

Thats impressive to know how you know that, i'd really like to know how you get to that figure for future reference? I was trying to aim for a 5% so im way off the mark here.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/abv-calculator/
Did you add the sugar the recipe suggests? Or did you just use the can of extract?

 

[VikeMan]

Ok, I looked up this recipe/kit. The kit has 3.3 lbs of LME, to which you're supposed to add 3.3 lbs of sugar. And it makes 6 gallons (US).

So, the OG of 1.044 sounds about right. And an FG near 1.000 also sounds about right, given the proportion of simple sugar. But the large amount of sugar might also be the problem. This is very far from an all malt wort, and thus pretty weak in nutrients. Without adding yeast nutrients, I wouldn't be surprised if this ended up under-attenuated.

 

[Craig57]

https://www.brewersfriend.com/abv-calculator/
Did you add the sugar the recipe suggests? Or did you just use the can of extract?

Hello i added 1.5kg of brewing sugar to the kit as it says in the instructions.

 

[Craig57]

Ok, I looked up this recipe/kit. The kit has 3.3 lbs of LME, to which you're supposed to add 3.3 lbs of sugar. And it makes 6 gallons (US).

So, the OG of 1.044 sounds about right. And an FG near 1.000 also sounds about right, given the proportion of simple sugar. But the large amount of sugar might also be the problem. This is very far from an all malt wort, and thus pretty weak in nutrients. Without adding yeast nutrients, I wouldn't be surprised if this ended up under-attenuated.

And this means what exactly? Ive gone by their instructions so far?

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Thats impressive to know how you know that, i'd really like to know how you get to that figure for future reference? I was trying to aim for a 5% so im way off the mark here.

I amended my post above to give you the simple equation for calculating ABV.

 

[VikeMan]

And this means what exactly?

It exactly means that yeast need nutrients (particularly nitrogen compounds) in order to perform. All malt worts (like a wort made just from liquid malt extract) generally have sufficient nutrients. Table sugar has no nutrients. When you make a wort with a significant amount of table sugar, the yeast don't get enough nutrients for maximum performance. In the case of this kit, about 57% of the carbohydrates came from table sugar.

Ive gone by their instructions so far?

Sadly, this is not a well designed kit.

 

[Craig57]

I amended my post above to give you the simple equation for calculating ABV.

Thanks

 

[Craig57]

Even that will introduce oxygen. A long narrow spoon handle through the fermentation cork opening might be better. Or just let it sit a few more days.

I have it at between 3.94% and 3.98% ABV via two different methods (rudimentary and Novotny). Brewer's Friend online calculator says 3.94% ABV.

The rudimentary method is: ABV = 131.25 * (OG-FG)
It gives generally decent for output until you get into higher ABV's.

Looks technical but im lost i have to say, sorry. Im assuming i have to do something with the original hydro reading to the finished one then do something to get to a specific final outcome?

 

[VikeMan]

Looks technical but im lost i have to say, sorry. Im assuming i have to do something with the original hydro reading to the finished one then do something to get to a specific final outcome?

(OG-FG) x 131.25 = ABV

(1.044 - 1.012) x 131.25 = 4.2% ABV

 

[Craig57]

(OG-FG) x 131.25 = ABV

(1.044 - 1.012) x 131.15 = 4.2% ABV

Thats quite simple, and thanks. Is the 131.25 a constant then when brewing lager?

 

[VikeMan]

Is the 131.25 a constant then when brewing lager?

It's a reasonable constant for most beers.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Looks technical but im lost i have to say, sorry. Im assuming i have to do something with the original hydro reading to the finished one then do something to get to a specific final outcome?

1.042 minus 1.012 = 0.030
0.030 times 131.25 = 3.9375% ABV (which rounds to 3.94% ABV)

 

[Craig57]

It's a reasonable constant for most beers.

Well using that makes calculation of the ABV alot easier, many thanks everyone.

 

[Craig57]

1.042 minus 1.012 = 0.030
0.030 times 131.25 = 3.9375% ABV (which rounds to 3.94% ABV)

Well i have learned something tonight from ALL your posts. Hell of a lot to learn but hey small steps and thanks, your help is very much appreciated.

 

[VikeMan]

@Craig57 note that there are two different ABV answers presented here. It's because you gave two different OGs in your posts. So pick the correct one and go from there.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

A true Lager yeast would have had you fermenting at between about 9 degrees C. and 12 degrees C. The kit must have had an ale yeast in it.

 

[Craig57]

A true Lager yeast would have had you fermenting at between about 9 degrees C. and 12 degrees C. The kit must have had an ale yeast in it.

i can only go off the product ive bought? I have another kit to take a look at once this has finished but needs light malt as apposed to sugar?
Its the one friends say is a good started kit as it takes longer to brew. Its a Coopers 86 day pilsner

 

[VikeMan]

A true Lager yeast would have had you fermenting at between about 9 degrees C. and 12 degrees C. The kit must have had an ale yeast in it.

Let's see...
Ferment at ale temps? √
No lagering phase? √

Sounds like a lager to me!
This is (sadly) not uncommon with pre-hopped can o' LME "lager" kits. That said, I'm fairly appalled by what a lot of home brewers are calling lagers these days.

 

[Craig57]

Let's see...
Ferment at ale temps? √
No lagering phase? √

Sounds like a lager to me!
This is (sadly) not uncommon with pre-hopped can o' LME "lager" kits. That said, I'm fairly appalled by what a lot of home brewers are calling lagers these days.

That said, is there a recommended home lager kit that is around 5%?

 

[VikeMan]

I have another kit to take a look at once this has finished but needs light malt as apposed to sugar?

My advice would be to seriously question any kit for a low ABV beer that includes adding sugar. And if you stick with this great hobby, think about getting away from pre-hopped extracts, too.

 

[VikeMan]

That said, is there a recommended home lager kit that is around 5%?

There are lots of them. But I assume you are in the UK. I don't know much about what's available over there.

 

[Craig57]

There are lots of them. But I assume you are in the UK. I don't know much about what's available over there.

Yes im in the UK. Obviously im no doubt aware there will be expensive kits on the market but didnt want to ruin an expensive one to start off with. A re you saying as a rule of thumb not to but a kit that uses sugar but malt instead?

 

[VikeMan]

A re you saying as a rule of thumb not to but a kit that uses sugar but malt instead?

Definitely.

 

[Craig57]

Definitely.

Ok thanks for the tip, very much appreciated.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Suggested Pilsner Lager Recipe:
--------------------------------------------
2.5 Kg. of Pilsner DME (dry malt extract)
0.5 Kg. of Vienna DME
23L-24L distilled water
4.5 grams calcium chloride
12.5 grams Magnum pellet hops, add at 60 minutes remaining boil time
25.0 grams Saaz pellet hops, add at 30 minutes remaining boil time
1 pkg, Fermentis S-189 Yeast, or 1 pkg. Fermentis W-34/70 yeast (Ferment at 10-11 degrees C.)

When water hits ~80-85 degrees C. stop heating. add, and stir in the DME well, then resume heating to boil